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Snow curls off of New York roof that has no snow retention system installed (C) 2013 D Friedman Roof Install, Inspect & Repair
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  • POST a QUESTION or COMMENT about types of roofing materials, installation, inspection, diagnosis, repair, maintenance, & warranties

Here we provide an index to our step by step articles explaining how to Install, Inspect, Diagnose, Repair Roofs.

These articles provide procedures for roof inspection, installation, diagnosis, repair & replacement guide. We give in-depth unbiased articles about building roofing materials, installations, inspection, roof problem or roof leak diagnosis and repair, roof covering or shingle product failures, roof warranties, roofing and roof structure defects, roofing repairs, and all types of roof covering products.

Page top photo: collapsed barn, Cooperstown, NY leaves only its roof in view - Daniel Friedman

InspectAPedia tolerates no conflicts of interest. We have no relationship with advertisers, products, or services discussed at this website.

- Daniel Friedman, Publisher/Editor/Author - See WHO ARE WE?

Roofing Installation, Inspection, Diagnosis & Repairs

Photograph of really worn out asphalt roof shinglesExample topics discussed in our building roofing articles include asphalt roof failures including thermal splitting and other defects, causes and types of asphalt shingle roof leaks, shingle blow-offs and wind damage, shingle cracks, blisters, stains, fire retardant plywood roof sheathing defects, and other damage .

How to find and choose a roofing contractor, how to inspect roofs, product failures, class actions, and warranty claims, roofing repair methods, product sources for residential and light commercial roofs, slate roof inspection and repair methods.

Our page top photo shows a current roof situation that deserves some thought. At left is a beautiful if complex roof over a Russian Orthodox temple in Buenos Aires. [Click to enlarge any image]

Our roofing inspection, diagnosis, repair and installation articles listed below provide roof inspection, roof leak or problem diagnosis, roof installation, and roof repair information as well as details about the factors that affect the life of any roof.

This website also includes detailed information about roofing age, life, inspection, troubleshooting, and repair.

Particular sources of roof damage such as hail damage, ice dam damage, and wind damage as well as insurance inspections and claims are explained here.

We discuss often-argued-about proper roof flashing, roof slope, roof job estimating, roofing felt or underlayment, roof ventilation, and we include roof warranty and claim information and links to roofing product sources. We also discuss roof safety hazards and safety procedures & standards for roofers.

To find what you need quickly, if you don't want to scroll through this index you are welcome to use the page top or bottom SEARCH BOX to search InspectApedia for specific articles and information.

Raised plywood roof sheathing edges show up as buckled shingles (C) Inspectapedia.com DovBer Kahn

Clay roof tiles Patzcuaro Mexico (C) Daniel Friedman

Metal roofing examples (C) Daniel Friedman

EPDM or membrane roof (C) Daniel Friedman

Corrugated cement asbestos roofing

EPDM rubber roof installation and repair details (C) Daniel Friedman Eric galow

Standing seam roof installation (C) Daniel Friedman Eric Galow

Photograph of really worn out asphalt roof shingles

Slate roof deterioration example = soft flaking slates (C) Daniel Friedman

Sod roof in Molde Norway (C) Daniel Friedman

Stone roof, Wolvercote, Oxford, U.K. (C) Daniel Friedman

Thatch roof el Charco, San Miguel de Allende Mexico (C) Daniel Friedman

Improperly set wood shingle roof (C) Daniel Friedman

Other roofing variables

  1. The cost of roofing installations 

    varies considerably by geographic area as well as material selected, pitch and height of roof, and roof shape or design complexity.

    Roofing cost estimates do not necessarily include the cost of any necessary structural or roof decking repairs that may be needed when re-roofing, nor do they include the cost of removing and disposing of old roofing materials.
  2. All of these roofing materials have a fire rating 

    of A except wood shingles which, if treated with a fire retardant, are fire rated B. Untreated wood roof shingles have no fire rating and are not permitted by code in some areas.

    A class A fire rated wood shingle roof can be installed using special procedures and materials that include plywood and gypsum board.

    See ROOF COVERING FIRE RESISTANCE
  3. The life expectancy of any roof depends

    significantly on other factors besides its composition, including the installation workmanship, the condition of the roof decking, and proper roof ventilation. For best life expectancy, fiberglass based asphalt shingles should meet standard ASTM D-3462 and organic mat based asphalt roof shingles should meet standard ASTM D-225.

    Architectural asphalt roof shingles can be expected to last longer than less costly three-tab asphalt roof shingles.
  4. Older roof cost numbers:

    "Choosing Roofing" in Fine Homebuilding Magazine (1995 data shows relative costs; absolute prices will have changed).

Roof Slope or Roof Pitch Definitions

Summary of Definitions of Roof Slope Types: Flat, Low Slope, Steep Slope Roofs

Roof slope definitions and illustrations (C) Carson Dunlop Associates

The illustration just above, courtesy of Carson Dunlop & Associates, summarizes the ranges of roof pitch or slope for flat, low-slope or conventional or "steep slope" roofing. Slope and pitch are synonymous terms for this topic.

Flat roof: 0-2" rise per foot of run

Low-Slope Roof: less than or equal to 3" rise per foot of run

Steep slope roof: 4" rise in 12 or more.

[Click to enlarge any image]

Details about how roof slope is measured or calculated along with examples of converting between angle, slope and grade are

at ROOF SLOPE DEFINITIONS.

Roof Covering Fire Resistance or "Fire Ratings"

Thermal splitting of fiberglass-based asphalt roof shingles was particularly common for product manufactured in the early 1990's.

In the U.S. and most other countries, roof coverings are rated for their ability to resist fire and to avoid spreading fire if the building burns. Both UL 790 and ASTM E 108 fire classification tests use the same test methods.

Class "A" roof fire ratings mean that under the specifics of the UL (or ASTM) fire rating test definition, the roof is effective against severe fire exposure.

Class "B" roof fire ratings mean that the roof is effective against moderate fire exposure.

Class "C" roof fire ratings mean that the roof is effective against slight fire exposure only.

Details about roof fire resistance effectiveness and roof fire ratings are

at FIRE RATINGS for ROOF SURFACES.

...


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Reader Comments, Questions & Answers About The Article Above

Below you will find questions and answers previously posted on this page at its page bottom reader comment box.

Reader Q&A - also see RECOMMENDED ARTICLES & FAQs

On 2023-09-19 by InspectApedia DF (mod) - tobacco juicing from new asphalt roofing products

@Sam,

Your photo does look like "tobacco juicing" a brownish watery runoff from new asphalt roofing products. GAF and other companies say it's not a defect.

Here is GAF's TOBACCO JUICING ROOFING RUNOFF EXPLANATION [PDF]

On 2023-09-18 by Sam

I just had roof material referred to as Torch Down which is an asphalt roofing system. After completion, the next day it rained a lot. The day after I woke up to this yellow liquid substance around the premeter of my house.

I did some research and tobacco juicing was the best terminology I ran into. According to its description, a yellow sticky liquid the one on my property is not sticky is yellow more liquid like water and there's no oder to it either.

My question is could these be tobacco juicing? There seems to be an excessive amount its pooled on the ground as you can see in pictures. I think it may be something other than tobacco juicing?

tobacco juicing from new asphalt roof (C) InspectApedia.com Sam

On 2023-10-24 by Jane

@InspectApedia Publisher, Thanks so much for getting back to me so quickly. We need to make a decision and your input / corroboration helps us!

On 2023-10-24 by InspectApedia Publisher - where do ice dams usually form

@Jane,

It's correct that I stand don't form on the outdoor porch roof because that's not overheated space. Where you might see an ice dam is if there is an intersection between the porch roof and the upper roof of the house itself.

More likely where the roof is not vented.

On 2023-10-23 by Jane

@InspectApedia DF, The roofer cannot clearly identify the source of the leak. We can move forward w/a narrow scope and replace the flashing and necessary shingles around it or replace the entire porch roof.

We prefer to do the narrow scope for a number of reasons. However, time and weather is an issue re: if the flashing replacement doesn't fix the leak and we have to move forward w/replacing the entire porch roof we're into colder weather.

However (and this is what I'd like your input on) perhaps we could hold off doing that until spring since the roofer is confident we're not at risk for ice dams and has even gone so far as to say that since the leak is so small and slow (water on porch floor is about 8" in diameter and it takes a heavy rain for it to show up) that we could even wait to do anything else until we replace our entire roof in 3-5 yrs assuming we didn't see the leak getting worse

The latter sounds a bit reckless, but I'd love to know if you think there can be situations where a leak can go for years w/o causing significant damage. It goes against my instinct to wait that long.

Also, can you weigh in on this idea about ice dams? I understand you can't see our roof in person, but at least, theoretically, let me know if this sounds plausible:

Ice dams wouldn’t be an issue since they occur under very particular conditions and affect only the perimeter of the house behind the eaves/soffits where warmth from the interior meets cold from the exterior. Requires about 3” of snow (minimum) and then a cold snap (below freezing around the clock) for a week or more.

On 2023-10-20 by InspectApedia DF (mod)

@Jane,

Depending on the location of a roof leak and its size, indeed it may not show up inside under all wet conditions, and may appear after hard rain, prolonged rain, or when there is melting snow on the roof.

We can explain each of those types of leaks but without seeing details of your roof it's just too speculative to be useful.

On 2023-10-19 by Jane

@InspectApedia DF, Dare I raise one more issue/question? I trust you'll feel free to ignore if too much. The leak is very slow. By that I mean, it often takes many hours of steady (or heavy) rain for it to show up.

Does that clue suggest anything particular to you? Also, we inspected the area on the underside of the ceiling (inside the porch, not on the roof) for any signs of staining, drip marks, etc. that aligns with the small area on the floor where the puddle shows up and see nothing. How do you figure?

On 2023-10-19 by InspectApedia DF (mod)

@Jane,

Thank you in return for your kind words. We've worked hard to provide researched, trusted information on these topics for decades so we're especially grateful when readers find it useful and reliable.

Your questions, photos, comments, and criticism help us as well.

Daniel

On 2023-10-19 by Jane

@InspectApedia DF, Thank you so much. The help you so generously provide to people (through the volume of information you've amassed and your willingness to answer people's questions) is an exceptional public service!

On 2023-10-19 by InspectApedia DF (mod) - source of roof leaks can be hard to trace

@Jane,

Indeed the source of roof leaks can be hard to trace: the point of water entry is usually above the point at which we see the water appearing, though water can travel horizontally under roofing material as well.

The presence of your porch ceiling finish surface prevents us from seeing the water tracks that otherwise would be visible inside IF the leak were coming from a source other than the skylight or its flashing.

Often a water test can help us find a leak, if the hose is used to soak suspect points on the roof working slowly from lowest to higher suspect areas.

Otherwise what's left is

1. Seal better any suspect leak points using a good grade silicone sealant applied to a clean dry surface

2. At re-roof time, strip the shingles and underlayment and inspect the condition of the entire roof deck for rot, damage, or leak stains. (When you do that, be sure to post photos here of any leak stains or indicators that you find).

3. If this were over an interior space I'd perhaps counsel removing enough drywall and insulation to inspect from the inside but your re-roof plan and the fact that the leak is over an outside porch make that cost less justified.

On 2023-10-19 by Jane

@InspectApedia Publisher, Thank you very much. A manager from the roofing company came out today and spent a lot of time inspecting the roof and talking with us in great detail answering all our questions.

I'm glad to hear from you that a job that's limited in scope can be a reasonable approach. My next question is: Is it common that the leak source isn't easily identified on inspection leaving roofers making their best guess?

I ask because no one has been able to see any obvious issues with the flashing. The roofer today said sometimes there are tiny pin holes in the caulking (noting it was a poor material to use where it was used when the roof was originally installed (prior owners) but they are difficult to see.

I know that, in general, finding the source of leaks can be challenging, especially since water can travel in a route that isn't a straight line from the entry point to the exit point. I don't know how to judge this company.

Should they be able to find the source of the leak or is it sometimes hard and can only be deduced? As I mentioned in a prior message, they are a highly reputable company, but my confidence has been shaken since they've continually said a seal break (and even showing photos from the install of a seal break on the original skylights), but apparently that was wrong.

Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my many questions. It helps enormously!

On 2023-10-18 by InspectApedia Publisher - may be reasonable to do a patch job repair now and defer the rest until it's part of a whole house re-roof project

@Jane,

I agree that it may be reasonable to do a patch job repair now and defer the rest until it's part of a whole house re-roof project.

Do get an estimate from your roofer on the "patch" repair.

And when the roof is stripped back for that repair and again when the whole roof is replaced, be sure to get some sharp photos of what's been going on around those skylights as well as any other indicators of roof leaks.

What we find from above will tell us how worried we need to be about the condition of the roof decking, rafters, and porch ceiling.

On 2023-10-17 by Jane

@InspectApedia Publisher, Thank you and, yes, the cost issues are front and center. If we replaced the entire porch roof now, it would also be a job that involved replacing gutters, leaf guards, etc, which starts to add up, financially.

So if we could pursue a more narrow scope at this time and be confident that, financially, it wouldn't be unwise w/respect to replacing the entire roof in a few years, it would be preferable.

But I just wanted to know if you would advise against just doing a limited amount of shingle replacement (the roofer can't say until they'd get into it, exactly how many, but assuming no major damage is found, doesn't anticipate the radius from the skylights becoming overly large) for any technical reason.

Yes, we would be in contact with the IAQ consultant we work with sometimes about that. I greatly appreciate you bring it up.

On 2023-10-17 by InspectApedia Publisher

@Jane,

I agree that if the leak is over an exterior space such as an outside porch at the risk of costly damage to the rest of the structure is considerably less.

I would point out however that is the ceiling to your porch is enclosed and we have water leaking into that space you may find that it's a mold reservoir.

So when you do the work you might want to explore that space to see if you want it opened and cleaned as well.

I wish I could give a more definite answer but simply from photos and text I can't know enough to be absolutely confident of the best course of action.

In my experience going to a site always brings out additional information that may not have been obvious in the original text and photo conversation.

Depending on exactly what's meant by correcting flashing, you can't replace flashing around a skylight without removing at least some of the surrounding shingles. If the cost of that job begins to approach the cost of re-roofing that whole section then it's a false economy to do it twice.

On 2023-10-17 by Jane

@InspectApedia DF, Thank you. One more question: We're trying to decide whether to replace the flashing and just the necessary shingles that integrate with it, or replace the whole porch roof.

We'd hoped to replace the porch roof when we re-roof the entire house in 3-5 yrs, but now we've got this leak challenge and need to figure out the best way to move forward.

Aesthetics aside, do you have an opinion about the wisdom, or lack thereof, of doing a partial job (flashing and only replace shingles that must be replaced) vs replacing the flashing and the entire porch roof? (Also, yes, aware the photo didn't show the roof itself, but just wanted to remind you the roof isn't over an indoor space.)

On 2023-10-16 by InspectApedia DF (mod)

@Jane,

About deferring re-roofing: the answer is, as my smarther-than-I-am friend Mark Cramer says, ... it depends.

If your roof is in questionable condition or is already leaking, then waiting until spring risks costly water damage to your home if the roof leaks during winter or when the snow melts or later in spring rain before the new roof is installed.

Most roof shingle manufacturers provide additional installation suggestions for cold weather roofing, such as using an additional dab of cold-weather sealant (e.g. silicones or urethane-solvent-based sealants that can work in cold temperatures) under every shingle tab rather than waiting for spring and hoping that the warmer weather & sunlight will seal the tabs then.

An experienced cold-weather roofer will know other "tricks of the trade" for cold temperature roofing. For example, in New York in cold weather conditions, we used to leave our ridge cap shingles indoors over radiators to soften them so that we could install them over hips and ridges or in valleys (for closed, woven valleys) without cracking.

On 2023-10-16 by InspectApedia Publisher - if an indoor condensation problem, then you'd see condensation on the skylight interior glass

@Jane,

The leak problem at the skylight, if it is in fact a leak, originates outdoors - so we can not see that from the indoor photo.

If on the other hand, it's not a leak but an indoor condensation problem, then you'd be seeing condensation on the skylight interior glass.

On 2023-10-16 by Jane

@InspectApedia DF, Thank you very much for all of that, including confirmation of minimum temp for install. I assume if the install is done when it's in the 50's or 60's but falls below 40 at night, that's ok and that the cut off temp pertains to the actual install itself and not post install temps.

Thank you for the ice and water shield recommendations, as well. We will make sure we have that exactly as you advise. Also, just to clarify, we don't have new leaks post new skylight install, but the same leak.

The roofing company (which is one of the most highly rated companies in the area) was confident the leak was from a seal break and when they removed the old dome plexiglass skylights to install the new Velux fcm skylights, they showed us in photos that there was, indeed, a seal break in the old ones in the precise location where we'd been having the leak.

So we were all confident they got it. But alas, not. A second roofer who also has an excellent reputation initially recommended replacing the flashing along w/the skylights, but there were other issues with this company so we went with the one with a more conservative step-wise approach since it seemed we had little to lose moving forward that way, other than time which is now a concern.

Related to that, if we held off doing anything more until spring, are we risking ice dam problems? And again, just to remind you, this is a roof over a screen in porch. There is not drywall or anything of the sort on the "interior." Let me know if a photo would help should this affect your perspective on waiting or doing the work now. Thank you so much!

Here's a photo taken from our porch under the skylight. The recessed part of the structure is aluminum coil and the ceiling is vinyl siding if any of that info is relevant.

porch ceiling with skylight installed (C) InspectApedia.com Jane


On 2023-10-16 by InspectApedia DF (mod) - lowest temperature at which asphalt shingle roofing can be installed without risking trouble is 40 deg. F

@Jane,

Thank you for the roof work follow-up.

The lowest temperature at which asphalt shingle roofing can be installed without risking trouble is 40 deg. F. Installing roofing below that temperature has at least these risks:

1. adhesives such as at roof flashing mastic/sealant and the factory-included shingle tab sealant that prevents wind blow-off damage to shingles may not adhere at low temperatures, so there's risk of roof damage in windy or wet weather

However special low-temperature adhesive products are available, and in fact I've seen asphalt roofing work done in northern Minnesota right through winter as long as there was no snow on the roof. So it's possible but not best praactice.

2. There is risk of shingle warranty issues if you later have a roof shingle failure warranty claim: the manufacturer may not warrant shingles installed below 40 F.

3. On occasion, especially where shingles were laid across a ridge in very cold weather, we see shingle crack damage that later leads to early wear or failure and possibly leaks - also a warranty issue.

So yes, at 50 or 60 degF asphalt shingle roofing is fine.

You'd also expect your roofer to keep an eye on the weather and not leave the home exposed to water damage should there be rain before the roof is adequately covered.

Aside: if you're in a climate that has snow, I'm a big fan of generous use of ice and water shield at least at the lower 3 ft. of the roof; some roofers extend that material higher-up the slope as well. That's extra insurance against ice dam leaks.

---

About the skylight leak, I am really disappointed to hear that you had skylights replaced and then found new leaks at the new skylights.

I'm of course blind - can't see a thing about the installation but I think that either the leaks are from elsewhere on the roof OR the skylight repair work was not done properly. If it turns out to be the latter, I'd be nervous about having the same roofing crew install my new roof. So you want some better diagnosis of exactly what's going on.

On 2023-10-15 by Jane

Following up on the porch roof exchange you so generously had with me a couple of months ago. We had the skylights replaced since one of the roofing companies was confident it was a seal failure and we could move forward in a step wise fashion if that turned out to be wrong.

Alas, it still leaks, so the more common problem is likely the culprit: the flashing. We'e now doing our homework on that and wanted to know if you had any suggestions of things to ask/confirm with the roofer.

One concern we have is temp. From what I'm reading online it seems that while cooler weather may not be ideal, it's still ok as long as the temp doesn't fall below 40 degrees. Do you agree with that and do you have any suggestions re: materials and/or install if the weather is in the 50's or low 60's?

It will be a shingle roof and any and all guidance about what to be looking for in terms of materials and install would be very much appreciated. We've never replaced a roof before so this is a steep learning curve and given the time of year, the clock is ticking. Thank you very much.

On 2023-09-01 by InspectApedia DF (mod)

@Jane,

We look forward to hearing an update with new photos once any repair or replacement has been done.

On 2023-09-01 by Jane

@InspectApedia Publisher, Thank you.

On 2023-09-01 by InspectApedia Publisher - don't tolerate ongoing leaks that are causing more costly damage.

@Jane,

If the leak is only over an outside porch and that porch ceiling is open - no insulation, no drywall, then you ought to be able to assure yourselves that the leaks are tolerable for a short term. (Longer term risks rotted roof sheathing or framing, invitation to wood destroying insects, and thus a more costly re-roof job).

So if you can tolerate the leaks yes you can wait and do the whole roof and flashing and skylights at one time. Patch and seal suspect sources of skylight leaks from above and wait.

One way to think about deferring re-roofing is that you're getting maximum use out of the existing roof, thus maximum return on the cost of the existing roof.

Just don't tolerate ongoing leaks that are causing more costly damage.

On 2023-09-01 by Jane

Follow up question on new skylight install: We decided to replace the old skylights w/new ones.

Because the job will require replacing a fair number of shingles in the surrounding area of the skylight we're considering replacing all the shingles on the roof over this screened in porch (and installing wider gutters and downspouts).

One roofer discouraged doing so and waiting until such time when we would replace our entire roof (likely in about 5 yrs, maybe a bit longer) because he said the adhesive on shingles is so strong, that it would be a mess to re-do them along the porch side of the flashing whenever we replace the entire roof.

The other roofer said it won't be a problem. Do you have an opinion about that?

On 2023-08-29 by InspectApedia Publisher

@Jane,

Tracking down building leaks is always a challenge, and an experienced on-site person can often see clues that a normal homeowner or even some contractors won't have noticed.

A contractor is often, quite understandably focused on getting a job, getting it done, and less interested in lengthy diagnosis.

My friend Eric often argued that in the time we spent diagnosing something he could simply tear out the old whatever and do it over again "right" as he put it - and sometimes at less cost.

Thank you as well for your kind words. Your questions and discussion help us see where we need to add or clarify information - working together helps us both.

On 2023-08-28 by Jane

@InspectApedia Publisher, Thank you. And sorry if I wasn't clear that the skylights are over a screened in porch, not an interior room. In any case, I greatly appreciate all your time helping me with this.

It's incredible how you give of your time in this way when people send you written descriptions and photos.

Of course you don't have the benefit of in person inspections, but wow, the service you provide is so valuable in at least helping to point people in a certain direction. Thank you so much!

On 2023-08-28 by InspectApedia Publisher - What's diagnostic is finding leak stains or puddles after rain or after testing the roof and skylight with a garden hose

@Jane,

Sorry for the confusion. If you're seeing a puddle below a skylight I'd have expected to find a water stain or wet or damp area on the inside of the skylight or in the ceiling around it as well.

What can be misleading is that depending on where a skylight is installed (e.g. over an area where there is a moisture source such as kitchens, baths, &c) condensation on a skylight in cool or cold weather can drip onto a floor or stain the surrounding skylight well.

What's diagnostic is finding leak stains or puddles after rain or after testing the roof and skylight with a garden hose.

Considering the age and condition of the skylight, and from our *very* limited viewpoint here where we have just text and some photos, skylight replacement seems a reasonable step;

Earlier I described a seal, patch, and watch option.

On 2023-08-28 by Jane

@InspectApedia Publisher, Thank you. To be clear: We ARE seeing evidence of a leak inside the screened in porch. There's a small puddle on the floor below the corner of one of the skylights.

And a roof er did patch an area they thought was suspect, but it didn't work. Now we're being told the seal is the culprit = replace with a new lense and reseal vs the other roofer saying repair isn't viable and we need a new skylight and flashing.

I know not what to do.

On 2023-08-28 by InspectApedia Publisher - A uniform haze all over a plastic bubble type roof skylight is typical of age and photo-oxidation

@Jane,

A uniform haze all over a plastic bubble type roof skylight is typical of age and photo-oxidation (sunlight exposure).

If you're not seeing ANY evidence of leaks inside the building it's reasonable to patch any suspect areas on the roof - you can try silicone sealant on clean dry surfaces - and then to watch for indoor leak signs.

You could, also after heavy rain, get someone on a ladder inside to check the ceiling for moisture around and below the skylight.

On 2023-08-27 by Jane

@InspectApedia Publisher, Thank you. I just now saw this longer reply from you. As for interior inspection, other than looking up at the skylight, neither roofer went up on a ladder inside our porch to inspect from the interior.

However, my husband had already done that in an attempt to determine if there were drip marks, stains, etc, and other than the one lower corner, there was no evidence he could see to further point in a particular direction.

Regarding the dome, I think it's a single pane of plexiglass. It appears hazy, but don't know if that's from it being dirty or a seal break. The haze is even over both skylights. As for the age of things, since we've only owned the house for a few years, we've only been able to estimate age.

We believe the roof to be about 15 years old. We don't know about the skylights. We think they may be a similar age, when the entire roof was probably re-done, but we can't know for sure and neither roofer has been able to determine the age, manufacturer, etc, of the skylights for us.

If I understood your comment correctly, it sounds like you see multiple problems, so perhaps this is the time to replace both skylights, but the cost is so high we wanted to make sure we'd explored all other viable options first.

Your ongoing help is greatly appreciated. (Also, that white area in the lower left corner of the first photo is where roofer #1 did the nail replacement.)

On 2023-08-27 by Jane

@InspectApedia Publisher, Thank you. To reply to your points. The leak is dripping from the very same corner that's highlighted in the photos (lower right from the exterior perspective).

We find a small puddle (8" diameter, max) on the porch floor directly under that corner of the skylight.

Roofer #1 initially sent a repair team who found a rusty/corroded nail in that area in question on the roof, removed it, replaced and sealed and felt confident that was the fix. (You can see that in one of the close up pics.) But it still leaked, so obviously not the fix. So they sent someone else out who decided it was due to seal failure and proposed removal of the lense and replacement of new flat one and re-seal.

Meanwhile, roofer #2 (group pic) determined the leak was due to flashing and proposed replacing the window, re-doing the flashing, etc. Not sure what my next step should be. Any additional ideas?

Can you just replace flashing without replacing the entire skylight? If so, the impression I have is that you run the risk of not getting a good fit when re-installing an old unit. Any additional thoughts would be most welcome. Thank you so much!

On 2023-08-27 by InspectApedia Publisher

@Jane,

We need to know, more accurately, where the leak shows up inside and whether that points to the skylight dome (replace the whole unit) or an improper installation (whole unit may need reinstallation so time to buy a new skylight), or a small, single fault that can be reliably sealed.

Certainly the cheapest test is to let someone patch what they think can be sealed without tearing up the installation, then testing it for leaks (a garden hose can work).

Keep us posted.

On 2023-08-27 by InspectApedia Publisher - two different roofer recommendations for skylight repair

@Jane,

Thank you for the added photos and details.

Your photo that includes multiple images looks as if the skylight might have been added, and in any case I don't expect nor want to see exposed fasteners; in addition the use of sealant at the upper corners of the skylight suggests that someone thought that that was a leak point.

It looks as if there's also an exposed fastener at the lower skylight corner. That's a sign of inexperienced workers and improper installation.

So far from the discussion and photos I can't say where the leak is occurring nor whether the issue is the skylight flashing (the usual cause) or the skylight itself (such as a poor seal between the dome and the perimeter flashing.


But before tearing things apart I would want a careful inspection inside around the skylight. The highest point around the skylight at which we can find water stains or damage will be diagnostic as the leak will be above that point.

Where is the building located (country, city) and how old are the building, the roof, and the skyhlight.

If the skylight frame and upper counter-flashing are in poor condition and the dome fogged it would be no surprise that some roofers want to re-do the job.

Be sure to read

SKYLIGHT LEAK DIAGNOSIS & REPAIR

where eventually we'll want to move this discussion.

On 2023-08-26 by Jane

@Jane, Sorry, but realized my update wasn't exactly clear.

Roofer #1 thinks the leak is from a seal failure, so wants to remove the dome and install a new flat lense and, obviously, re-seal.

Roofer #2 thinks it's a flashing failure, doesn't think that can be repaired, and as a result is proposing replacing the window and installing new flashing.

And as if having two different diagnoses isn't confusing enough, one thinks the window is a standard size ( which means replacement costs less and can be made faster) and the other roofer thinks it's a custom size, which means more expensive and costly. Needless to say, we will ask whoever we're thinking of hiring to re-measure.

On 2023-08-26 by Jane

More pics.

skylight leak repair (C) InspectApedia.com Jane

...

skylight leak repair (C) InspectApedia.com Jane

On 2023-08-26 by Jane

@InspectApedia Publisher, Update and finally have photos. Have consulted with two different, very reputable roofers.

One thinks the problem is the seal around the dome and wants to remove and replace the dome with a flat lense and reseal. The other thinks the problem is with the flashing and wants to replace the skylight and flashing, noting that any other repair has a high risk of failure.

Statistically, the flashing would be the more likely problem, but hope you can help me square these two different opinions. I don’t want to throw good money after bad by doing the less expensive fix the first roofer is proposing only to discover the second roofer was right all along.

Also, they’re suggesting two different models of the same skylight window brand so I need to do research about that, but if you have any opinions about this topic, I’m all ears. Thank you, in advance, for your help.

I don’t know how many pics I can post, so if only one, will post a couple more so you can have maximum visual info. (Also, we don’t know the age or the brand of the skylights that are currently there, but estimate they are probably 15 yrs old.)

skylight leak repair (C) InspectApedia.com Jane

On 2023-07-24 by Jane

@InspectApedia Publisher, OK. Thank you. Let me do some further investigating and gather additional info asap.

On 2023-07-24 y InspectApedia Publisher - Leak from corner of skylight in roof over screened in porch

@Jane,

I'd want to know the age and condition of the skylight. IF it's a high quality unit in very good condition so that the ONLY issue is with flashing then usually one can replace just the flashing.

But some skylights are sold with part of the flashing integrated with the body of the skylight.

So I need to see photos and details.

Frankly it's odd for modern skylight flashing to get a "hole" as the flashing isn't usually a metal that will rust.

But improperly installed, metal flashing might flex repeatedly until it cracks and breaks.

So let's see the details.

On 2023-07-23 by Jane

Leak from corner of skylight in roof over screened in porch. (Skylight is not the kind that can open.) Roofer observed prior homeowners had done caulk repairs in the past, but said now there is corrosion on the flashing and there is a hole. (Showed us a photo, which we're waiting for him to send us.)

Said the fix is to replace the skylight, install new flashing, etc. Does this sound right or a bit extreme? I didn't understand why the entire window would have to be replaced. Do you have any perspective on this or would you need more information?

I will f/u w/him, as well, to better understand but thought it would be helpful to get your input.

On 2023-07-03 by InspectApedia Publisher - need the identity of the installing roofer and a copy of their receipt

@Melanie,

1. That canvas-like material is uncommon. IKO must be able to say whether or not they use it.

2. Post a photo or several, one per comment, showing roof condition. Splice shingles are few in number and ought not be all over a roof.

3. What's needed is the identity of the installing roofer and a copy of their receipt as showing where the shingles were bought and the product brand and model.

On 2023-07-03 by Melanie

@InspectApedia DF, Oh gosh, my apologies for not replying sooner, with everything going on I'm a tad overwhelmed. You could be right with it being a splice. I would hope that IKO knows the material they use to splice together their shingles and could identify it if it popped up like this.

The engineer came over and did a full inspection and sadly it's not good news there either, but to put it short and to the point of this post, they took measurements of the shingles and his words when measuring them "I've never seen anything like them, they are odd".

In the final report, it states that the shingles could not be verified as IKO, they are also crumbling, tearing and are splitting as well as pitting (per the report photo's), we also have these areas where they are creating a peak of sorts, a funny looking upside down V, we were informed it's because the sheathing is not proper for the type of shingle that was installed so the shingles are moving.

I have sent IKO another email asking for their measurements including tooth size measurement. I wish I was able to purchase a bundle of IKO shingles so I can lay them side by side and take measurements myself, but for some reason you have to be a contractor to purchase them and we never had any left here incase of these issues.

I don't know if I should keep trying to find out what they are, as per the engineer report, both our siding and roofs need to be redone or it will continue to decline quickly. Our siding and roof is not even 2 years old and it's all falling apart.

Thank you for any and all your insight to this. Very helpful.

On 2023-05-17 by InspectApedia DF (mod) - canvas backing on your shingles

@Melanie Mix,

Important: just in case it's this case that I forgot to mention earlier:

In the asphalt roof shingle factory on the production line, successive rolls of asphalt shingle raw material may be spliced together to keep the shingle cutting machine running. On occasion a "splice" gets made into shingles that ought to have been taken out of the package but were missed by everyone.

That could explain this odd case that looks as if there is canvas backing on your shingle.

That's more likely if there are just one or two of these odd shingles on your roof. If there are many of them, it's probably something else.

See details at
https://inspectapedia.com/roof/Asphalt_Shingle_Splices.php

SPLICE DEFECTS on ASPHALT SHINGLES

On 2023-04-08 by InspectApedia Publisher

@Melanie,

Let me know what your engineer has to say, and let me know what happens when you obtain a copy from your roofer of the receipt indicating what shingles he bought. And where he bought them and in what quantity on what dates -- that you can match to the work done on your home.

Finally, don't confuse structural problems on a building with a shingle type or brand.

On 2023-04-08 by Melanie

@InspectApedia Editor , I agree, I have no clue how to repair something that doesn't match anything I've looked at (sadly a repair is all I can do at the moment), hence my reason for asking as many places I can if anyone can identify them, do you think they are a mix of brands?

I am unable to find long tab shingles, just the flat 3 tab kind. What is written on my contract is, Shingle Brand - IKO Cambridge, Type - Arch, Color - Dual Black, sadly that's all I have to go on.

About 6 months after install I noticed the garage shingles starting to curl upwards and looking like cardboard with a slight dip in the corner of the roof, with in the next 6 months the roof was caving in with the siding buckling and bowing along with it,

the response from the contractor was it's an old house (was built 1950's). The shingles were installed in the middle of winter with a high of 21 F on that day, I remember asking the contractor if it was too cold to do and was told no it's fine, silly me was gullible and trusted them.

I don't know what they did to my roofs, but they look older now after 16 months old then the 20 year old shingles that were replaced.

I do have a structural engineer coming out on the 17th of this month so fingers crossed they may have some answers, they are already informed with lots of pictures to hopefully get a heads up on the situation. I'm very concerned and confused as so far no one has been able to put a name to them.

I've added a recent picture of my garage with the now caving in roof. (It will be tarped after the Engineer has been out). The edges just look like cardboard to me.

My old shingles were a 3 tab and I broke a piece off an old spare one I had and I could clearly see fiberglass hair like strands sticking out, these new ones have no fiberglass, just the natural looking jute/burlap fabric, they are also a lot thicker then my old ones.

wrong shingles installed and roof damage (C) InspectApedia.com Melanie

On 2023-04-07 by InspectApedia Editor - wrong shingles installed

@Anonymous,

Those are two completely-different shingle products.

Your Iko photo is of a laminated asphalt shingle that's intended to resemble cedar shakes or shingles in pattern on a roof.

Your photo of the shingles on your roof are a very different pattern, a combination of strip shingles - long tabs - with shorter tabs, and without that more-regular recessed, shaded shingle segment shown on the Iko shingle photo.

On 2023-04-07 by Melanie

@InspectApedia Editor ,
Thank you so much for looking into this for me, I have been searching high and low for any information on these shingles for the past 6 months to no avail and when the manufacture even say's they aren't theirs,

I kind of don't know where else to seek some advice, so I really do appreciate the input.

They do resemble IKO with the straight cut, but as IKO mentioned the tooth size doesn't match theirs, I'll add a side by side picture.

Sadly I don't have any pictures of the beginning stages of the roof install as at the time we trusted the professionals we had contracted with, it wasn't until the siding was started that we started noticing that something just don't seem right and started documenting a lot more.

IKO had mentioned that they have batch numbers on the back of their shingles, so I think I will have to remove and replace to get that number. The issue I'm coming down to is matching them as IKO's look so different. Thank you again for the assistance.

wrong shingles installed and roof damage (C) InspectApedia.com Melanie

On 2023-04-07 by InspectApedia Editor - defective roof shingles installed

@Melanie Mix,

It looks like a defective product in which there is no asphalt impregnation of what looks like a canvas shingle backer, and the granular surface is not adhered to the backer.

If the roofer continues to insist that those are Iko shingles, he should be able to give you a receipt for their purchase.

If not I suspect he could be held obligated to replace the roof since there's no shingle manufacturer warranty and the product isn't that for which you contracted.

I suspect the roofing contractor is not going to want to do that (it's a big loss to the roofer) so you may end up in small claims court.

Frankly if you don't trust the roofer you may not want him to do the repair work.

Do you have any photographs of the roof work in process and in particular of the packaging of the shingles?

I'll do some further research to see if we can find something. But I have to say that like Iko, that's a shingle I have never seen before.

Let me know what happens and let me know if you have more information about the product from a receipt or from photos.

This example of a typical asphalt shingle's anatomy is from CertainTeeed - original source https://blog.certainteed.com/2022/02/the-anatomy-of-a-shingle/


On 2023-04-06 by Melanie Mix

Recently had a new roof installed (Dec 2021) and I thought they were IKO shingles (per the contract) but after speaking with IKO they can not identify my shingles that were installed 16 months ago,

they say their architectural style shingles are made with a non woven fiberglass mat and that the tooth size doesn't match theirs, my shingles are showing a tightly woven jute/burlap type of fabric underneath the asphalt that had broken away. My shingles look like soggy wet cardboard and swell when wet.


I'm looking for some help to identify my shingles as everything I've researched here in the US and in Canada don't have a tightly woven natural type fiber mat or core. The contractor say's IKO and IKO say's they aren't and that they have never seen shingles like mine.

I also asked on the website Ask A Roofer and their opinions were the same as IKO and unable to identify them too.

Really worried about all the roof issues I'm having since having a new installed.
Thank you

wrong shingles installed and roof damage (C) InspectApedia.com Melanie

On 2023-03-19 by InspectApedia-911 (mod)

@ Elise, Your comment and photos along with our reply have been moved to the Reader Q&A section at

FIBERBOARD BUILDING WALL & CEILINGS

On 2023-03-19 by Elise

Can someone tell me what kind of sheathing system this is? Appears to be panels with a fiber-like material. Building was constructed around 1970 or so but unknown if this is original to the building.

On 2023-03-18 by InspectApedia Editor - wrong color shingles don't match HOA regulations

@Jason,

The good news is that since you are selling your home, and since you certainly would not enter into such an important contract without help from a real estate attorney, this is a legal question that you should bring to her as soon as possible.

Bring along complete documentation including the copy of your roofing contract, your home owners' association requirements, and photo-documentation of the shingles installed.

If you can do so, photograph the packaging from the shingles too - look in local trash if they're not still on the ground at your house - so that you know the shingle manufacturer and product identification in complete detail.

Keep us posted. And use the "add image" button to post a photo of your new roof along with a note telling us the country and city of location.

On 2023-03-16 by Jason

Selling home. New roof to be installed 2 days before closing. Roofer was informed that he needed to contact me do to hoa guidelines on shingle colors option of 2. He ignored request to properly contact me so i could contact hoa and initiate process . He did roof his way, wrong color, and now hoa has problem and going to start to fine us. Roof is less than 2 weeks old.

Now buyers are hold 20k price i paid for roof, in case hoa does not approve, which will result in them keeping escrow to pay for a new roof that’s less than 2 weeks old. What can i do? This is on roofer!

On 2022-09-15 by InspectApedia-911 (mod)

@Germaine M S.,

Your question and photos were also posted and now live, with our reply, at

RESOLVING PROBLEMS WITH ROOFING JOBS

On 2022-09-15 by Germaine M S.

I had my roof done yesterday and this is how they left the chimney, is this their problem or for me to fix?

Chimney needs repair after roof job (C) InspectApedia.com Germaine

On 2022-07-26 by InspectApedia-911 (mod) - recycled use of roof shingles to make walkway

newpost

Thank you for the photo and shingle recycling idea - using stripped roof shingles as a walkway.

If stripped roof shingles are in good condition, indeed they may retain enough flexibility to be placed on the ground as a walking surface. Too often, in our own experience, by the time roof shingles need to be stripped from a roof there are multiple layers and shingle materials are fragile and brittle; the stripped material is also full of roofing nails.

We like the idea of re-using materials however. Nice photo.

For our readers: newpostroofing is in Fredricksburg, Virginia
Email: sales@newpostroofers [dot] com
Phone: 540-701-4173
Web: newpostroofers [dot] com

On 2022-07-26 by InspectApedia-911 (mod)

Re-posting without dis-allowed link (protect readers & website)

New Post Roofers · 11 hours ago
This is an amazing repository of roofing information. We have added a reference link to our website, thanks! We would like to share our newest blog article on alternative uses for roof tiles and shingles. Roof tiles can be reused or recycled, which is typically better than ending up in a landfill.

newpostroofers [dot]com /can-roof-tiles-be-reused-or-recycled/

Thank you again for putting this trusted roofing site together.

recycled roof shingles walkway (C) InspectApedia.com NewPostRoofers

On 2022-10-04 by InspectApedia-911 (mod) - box vent installation on hip roof

@Chris Moody,

I can't see enough of all of the important details for those spot vents to say whether or not they are properly installed.

For example the flashing may be or may not be incorrect.

It looks to me as if someone's trying to vent a hip roof, which admittedly is difficult as there is no Ridge line on that roof area , but there are some special products for that purpose if you need better ventilation.

You can find those by searching this website for

hip roof ventilation.

On 2022-10-04 by Chris Moody

do these box vents look properly installed? The shingle at the back slope of the vents is actually creeping up the vents, and the shingle isnt stuck down across the 3 vents. They didnt trim around the vents at all.

box vent hip ridge ventilation (C) InspectApedia.com Chris M

On 2022-07-07 by Chris Moody

@InspectApedia-911, I believe California cut valley is not the same as closed cut because closed cut doesn't use the vertical shingle show here which goes opposite the pattern of the other shingles? closed cut would be overlapped from either side?

On 2022-07-06 by InspectApedia-911 (mod) - proper installation of asphalt roof shingles at ridge and valley

@Chris Moody,

Thank you for the helpful comment. I think perhaps you're using California Valley as a synonym for closed valley?

On 2022-07-06 by Chris Moody

@Chris Moody,

Asphalt roof shingles installation (C) InspectApedia.com Chris M

On 2022-07-06 by Chris Moody

@InspectApedia-911, it looks like a California cut valley based on the vertical shingle. This type of valley is not recommended by GAF.



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