How to use (or not use) night time thermostat setback temperatures for radiant slab heating systems.
This article discusses the maximum, minimum, & recommended night set-back temperatures for radiant heated floor systems.
This article series explains radiant heat temperature settings at the boiler, radiant heat temperature settings in the tubing, maximum temperature for radiant-heated floor surfaces energy efficiencies of radiant floor heating, heat loss rates into earth below radiant heated floor slabs, and we provide operating temperature comparisons for types of radiant heating.
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Bottom line: using a night time temperature setback for a radiant heat floor slab system might save energy costs but achieving significant savings may require a large setback that in turn risks occupant comfort if the radiant heat system takes too-long to return to comfortable temperatures the next morning.
While sources and studies report a 10-15% gas heat cost savings (as an example) for conventional heating systems, most of the independent, expert sources we reviewed were of the opinion that a night setback for radiant heat high mass floor systems is not useful and is not recommended!
Example: For a super-insulated home, the US DOE points out that (for typical hydronic heating systems)
Setback for super-insulated homes should be avoided. Because the heating loads are so small, the potential savings from operating in setback mode would be minuscule compared to the extra cost of the baseboard needed to recover quickly. - US DOE 2014
We recommend that you experiment with your building and night setback temperatures to find how much you can set back the indoor temperature at night for a given outdoor temperature. Notice how long it takes for your indoor space temperature to return to its comfort zone.
If you want to try for energy savings by using a night setback with an in-slab radiant heat floor system, to avoid an hours-long recovery period in the morning,
start with a small night setback of just 2-3 deg F for a radiant heated concrete floor slab.
This is much less than a recommended 16 deg. setback for more conventional heating systems, e.g. in the U.K.
And a very aggressive temperature setback, say from 66 deg F. down to 50 deg F. in a very cold climate may mean that the building temperature never recovers adequately in the following day.
A second risk for some radiant heat slab systems is that the operator overheats the slab to try to return to comfortable temperature quickly.
In our test cabin in northern Minnesota, when the cabin is unoccupied for weeks or longer we keep the indoor temperature in the high 40s F - just to prevent frost heave damage.
But on return of occupants in this poorly-built radiant heat slab it takes three to five days for the floor temperatures to warm enough for comfortable barefoot or socked-foot walking.
The optimum night temperature setback for radiant heat slab systems varies by building and climate conditions.
If the night time setback temperature drop for a radiant heat slab system is too great, it may take several hours to bring back comfortable indoor temperatures the next morning.
An automatic thermostat that learns the time necessary to return the building to its target daytime temperature can handle this task for you. The result, for a poorly-insulated slab or building will be a relatively-short night setback period and thus a smaller night-time energy cost savings.
A very well insulated slab and building may keep enough neat overnight that even with a thermostat set-back for night time hours the building temperature can drop very little. In this case the worry of wasting energy by causing the heater to work too hard for too long in the morning won't occur.
It is important to note that energy savings as a result of radiant system multi-zoning in residential buildings are a direct function of occupant behaviour; and therefore, the calculated savings will vary significantly for each based on the thermostat setback setting.
In order to capture the possible range of energy savings, ICF Marbek modeled each house with the following two setback setting scenarios:
• Minimum setback temperature: 1° C reduction during the night for “Living” and “Basement” zones and during the day for “Bedrooms” zone.
• Aggressive setback temperature: 4° C reduction during the night for “Living” and “Basement” zones and during the day- for “Bedrooms” zone.
Energy savings for a radiant system multi-zone system in two-story homes in Toronto and Edmonton are expected to be in the range of 11 GJ to 26 GJ, depending on thermostat setting in which the occupant is continuously managing the thermostat setback temperature.
This corresponds to a range of 10% to 18% of the total baseline energy consumption.
Multi-zoning setup in two-story homes in Toronto and Edmonton can increase the potential energy savings resulting from the use of radiant heating system, by a range of 1% to 6% of baseline consumption, depending on the thermostat setting in the different zones.
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Below you will find questions and answers previously posted on this page at its page bottom reader comment box.
On 2021-03-25 - by (mod) - temperature overshoot with radiant heat floor
@Craig, if the temperature overshoot is a problem you might check to see if you could install a thermostat that uses a heat anticipator.
On 2021-03-24 by craig
@Craig, the main building being the finned pex, 2 runs per floor joist. cabin had basement inside perimeter of cabin, so cannot reach 3 feet on long sides, 8 feet in rear or 3 feet in front.
I installed where I could access and put the aluminum fins so there was something under it, and it worked, you could certainly feel areas without the run under old cabin, no socks or shoes required like in previous winters.. though clarify..
Thanks.. the slab was well insulated, a union worker poured it, has 2" high density all around perimeter, bottom, into footings, then around outside and 6 feet outwards on a slope around it,,
My main issue is using most of this mass to heat entire building, ran pex under floor in main cabin, 26x16 with about 50% coverage, then 2 runs under the 16' addition, I think mentioned in an earlier comment last fall.
It made it through winter fine bumped up to 120, very comfortable, just noticed wasn't running as often and would swing 2 degrees over after shutdown when was 1 tops before.
So dropped from 120 to 110 to see how that works out, if still bounces over, without cooking or sunlight, will drop to 100, what I think I started out with in beginning.
I know my issues would not be issues if had full slab with 4 zones and a temp sensor in the slab, but as stated I talked to at least 10 others in area who none have this sensor, nor was it mentioned to them by any installer, it isn't that popular around here possibly due to cost of concrete up here.. thanks again if you find out something..
On 2021-03-24 - by (mod) - adjust the temp of the heated water when it is warmer outside?
@Craig, I don't have an authoritative answer (and am looking for one) but in general, you can push the floor temp up if it's so cold out that your radiant heat isn't keeping up;
The end of the day the determining factor in my experience is how well the slab was insulated under the floor.
On 2021-03-24 by Craig
Wondering if I should adjust the temp of the heated water when it is warmer outside if not using thermostat with slab sensor.
I ended up pushing temp to 120F when it was -25F here last month to keep house warm as the 110-115F range had the unit running longer.
Now that it is around freezing, wondering if should drop the temp to avoid swinging temps in the house as by time wall mounted thermostat registers the temp there is a lot of thermal mass built up.
Since appears many around here were not told to place a sensor at bottom of slab and are using typical thermostat to control temps we might need a guide to thermal masses, and advice on temp ranges of our heaters based on outside air temps?
On 2020-10-27 - by (mod) - What's the safest and most efficient temperature setting at your room thermostat
Safest: I cannot offer an answer Stan - I'm not sure which safety venue is of concern: over-stressing the heating system itself - which of course varies by type of heat source and type of radiant heat distribution - or do you mean safe - not to burn someone's feet?
The latter would not be affected by thermostat setting but is controlled by the radiant heat system controls and mixing valves.
Most efficient: that too depends on what kind of heating system source you are using. And are we confusing "efficiency" versus minimizing heating costs?
Electric heat, in terms of energy use, is often considered the most-efficient in that nearly 100% of the energy put into the heating system comes out as heat into the occupied space.
Economy: using less heat, keeping a building cooler, uses less energy so spends less money on heating; that's not exactly an efficiency measure.
So clarify what we're supposed to discuss here: efficient heat transfer? Economy of operation?
General answer: the room thermostat does not directly control the temperature limits on the heating boiler - those are set by an aquastat on the boiler itself.
See details at AQUASTAT HI LO DIFF SETTINGS where you'll see that we never set the aquastat above 200F
If you were asking about the heat level of the radiant heat floor or ceiling itself, those are given in the article above on this page - please take a look.
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