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Water Storage / Pressure Q&A-3
FAQs about water tank uses, diagnosis, repair

Water tank FAQs set3:

Questions & answers about the purpose of water storage and water pressure tanks.

This article series explains the different types of water tanks such as tanks using an internal bladder or diaphragm, bladderless steel, fiberglass, or plastic water tanks, and water tank pressure and air controls and valves.

InspectAPedia tolerates no conflicts of interest. We have no relationship with advertisers, products, or services discussed at this website.

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Water Pressure Tank or Storage Tank Questions & Answers

Steel water tank (C) Daniel FriedmanThese questions & answers about water tanks were posted originally at WATER TANK: USES, TROUBLESHOOTING - the home page for this subject.

On 2017-10-20 by (mod) - can I get rid of the water tank?

Terri,

If the water tank is for hot water, and if it is gas or oil heated, having it in a bedroom closet is unsafe and illegal. If it is a water pressure tank, then yes you need the water tank as part of the water delivery system.

WATER TANK vs WATER PRESSURE - https://inspectapedia.com/water/Well_Tank_Effect_on_Water_Pressure.php explains how the presence of a pressure tank or storage tank affects building water flow.

On 2018-10-30 by (mod) -

Matt Brown said:
I am currently thinking of fixing my pressure tank of buying a new one, After reading this article, I am able to understand that I need to verify the damage of my pressure tank and it's a good thing that it is just for the wiring system. Good thing that I am able to read this first before getting a service because I am trying to do my best to cut down our expenses.

On 2018-05-07 by (mod) -

David:

You'd add a WATER PRESSURE BOOSTER PUMP - of which some types require a pressure tank and others not. Search InspectApedia for that phrase to read details.

On 2018-05-06 by Anonymous

@David witt,
There is no pressure tank they took it out

On 2018-05-06 by David witt

I have a well on my farm I leased it for pasture they put a resavor tank in so they pump the water to the tank every thing from the tank is gravity feed including my house I don't have much pressure at all how do i fix this

On 2018-02-25 by (mod) - Why is pressure supply tanks used in water supply system

Tyrone

1. An air charge in the tank delivers water pressure out of the tank and into the building to avoid water pump rapid on-off cycling or "short cycling" that is annoying and that ultimately damages the equipment

2. At some properties where the supply capacity of the water well is limited, a large water tank may also be used to store water for use by building occupants.

On 2018-02-25 by TyroneBatiste

Why is pressure supply tanks used in water supply system

On 2017-08-08 by Mike

Thanks, mod, and yes, I've got plenty of water coming in my main line.

On 2017-08-08 by (mod) - Can I add a second pressure tank ?

Mike,

You'd think so, and adding one probably wouldn't cause damage, but when I read the pump, pressure control, and tank installation guides the manufacturers of the tank and switch generally say put the tank close to the pressure control for effective operation.

What I would consider, then, is adding a second tank plus a booster pump for your second building. You'll have tank, pump, and control close to one another and the building will see better pressure (flow).

I presume you have already assured yourself that the total water flow rate or capacity entering the first building is enough for two buildings and all of the users?

See WATER PRESSURE BOOSTER PUMP

There are also some nice booster pumps like the Grundfos SCALA2 that work with no pressure tank.

See WATER PUMP VARIABLE FREQUENCY / VARIABLE SPEED DRIVE (VFDs)

On 2017-08-08 13:59:31.128495 by Mike

I have a small pressure tank at the beginning of my water supply line. I'm adding a second building with a n additional water heater and 6 more faucets. Can I add a second pressure tank at the end (not beginning) of my new waterline?

On 2017-10-20 by (mod) - can I get rid of the water tank?

Terri,

If the water tank is for hot water, and if it is gas or oil heated, having it in a bedroom closet is unsafe and illegal. If it is a water pressure tank, then yes you need the water tank as part of the water delivery system.

WATER TANK vs WATER PRESSURE - https://inspectapedia.com/water/Well_Tank_Effect_on_Water_Pressure.php explains how the presence of a pressure tank or storage tank affects building water flow.

On 2017-10-20 by Terri

I moved into a house with septic and we'll, house built in 2004 or 2009. The garage was converted to a master bedroom. There is a large 81 gal water tank in closet area, do I need that? Can I take it out? If I do need it, is it expensive to move to another area in the house?

On 2017-10-20 by (mod) - pressure switch clicks but does not turn on the pump

Judy,

I suspect burned pump switch contacts - I'd have the switch replaced.

On 2017-08-05 by Judy

The control switch on my well water storage tank sticks or something--sometimes it clicks 15 times before it is successful in turning on the pump. After a while, this continuous action roils up the water in the well and we start getting muddy water.

This has happened a lot of times. Usually, after a period of days or weeks, the problem will correct itself. Until the next time. Is there some way I can correct it when it starts so I don't have it keep on malfunctioning and pumping muddy water?

On 2017-06-13 by (mod) -

Henson

Check the manufacturer brand and pump model, then we (or you) can find the manufacturer's table specifying the pump's lift capacity. You will find that the pumping capacity in gpm or lpm diminishes as first a function of the lift height. For your particular pump at 50 ft you may already be exceeding the pump's capacity. For example a one line jet pump can lift water about 27 feet.

If on the other hand (I'm left guessing here as your message doesn't specify), if the pump is old and used to work but no longer lifts, look for
a leak or a damaged impeller, low voltage, or an obstruction.

On 2017-06-13 by Henson

Why does my 3 hp centrifugal pump can not deliver water up to 50 feet high, using 2 inch diameter pvc pipe? Is it because of the pump or i need to get a higher hp motor?

On 2017-05-16 by (mod) - air in the plumbing lines

Please use the search box just above to find our diagnostic article on

AIR DISCHARGE AT PLUMBING FIXTURES

Then do let me know if questions remain, or if that text is unclear in any way, and I will be glad to work further with you

On 2017-05-16 by Anonymous

What should be done to get air out of the lines

On 2017-05-16 by Calvin

We have a sΓ©ries600 water pressure tank with pressure switch set 30/50 we have air in the lines at all taps. We have drained the tank but still have air in the lines

On 2017-04-17 by (mod) - submersible pump in holding tank?

Sorry Oz

I did have some trouble following the first question as phrased, but I thought we were addressing

"During this time, does the water going into the house bypass the pressure tank (via the "T")? In which case the descaler would not have access to the water going to the houses, and the water entering the house (during the time the pump is running) would not be descaled. Is this correct? "

Of course the pressure tank doesn't have water flowing in and out of it simultaneously. Water flows OUT until the system pressure falls low enough to turn on the pump. Then as the pump runs, DEPENDING ON the WATER USAGE RATE, the pressure tank will be re-pressurized. If the pump can't keep up with water usage the tank won't really be re-pressurized until the water usage stops. Then the pump continues to run until the water system is at cutoff pressure.

I don't have a clear picture of where equipment is, where it runs, in what order. So I'm having trouble answering your last question about which water escapes de-scaling.

It SOUNDS to me as if your pressure tank is located "floated on the line" in plumber talk, meaning it really can be anywhere in the system and is not and doesn't have to be in-line with the main water flow: all it's doing is delivering an initial volume of water until the system pressure reaches the pump CUT-IN pressure.

So if you install your descaler on the line that just feeds the pressure tank, you will de-scale ONLY the water that flows into the tank and then back out of it. When water is running being delivered by the pump, not the pressure tank, then I think, from your verbal map, that that water won't be descaled.

Follow the water pipes. If water flows from the water source to wherever you're using it without passing through your de-scaler that answers the question.

On 2017-04-17 by ozazman

Thank you, but this does not answer my question. The well is not an issue because the water is held in a 6000 gallon storage tank.

The pump I refer to is the submersible one in the holding tank, which pumps water out of the tank and into the pressure tank and house (the well has it's own submersible pump).

The T is outside the garage, and the pressure tank is in the garage. The pressure tank has only one pipe. The pump in the storage tank will kick on after water is run for a couple of minutes, such as when the bathtub is being filled. The pressure tank cannot have water going both into it and out from it at the same time.

So, again, here is the question: During the time that the storage tank pump is running continuously (because water in the home is being used continuously), does the water going to the house escape being descaled if the descaler is located on the single pipe going into the pressure tank, rather than the pipe going to the house from the T. The reason I would need to install the descaler on the single pressure tank pipe is because that is the only protected (indoor) area, and the only place where there is an electric plug. Hope this helps..... thanks again.

On 2017-04-15 by (mod) - I want to install an electronic water descaler

Ely

At inspectapedia.com/plumbing/Water_Heater_Scale_Removal.php

We discuss scale removal from plumbing systems, focusing on water heating equipment as that's where scale formation is fastest and worst.

That article also links to water heater scale prevention - that applies to entire plumbing systems too - at inspectapedia.com/plumbing/Water_Heater_Scale_Prevent.php - there we also discuss use of electronic scale prevention equipment on plumbing systems.

Watch out: scale prevention and water softening (removing minerals that form scale) are not likely to remove existing heavy scale deposits. For that your plumber will need to use one of several SCALE REMOVAL methods that we also discuss in the same article series.

You will also want to read about scale prevention, such as by using a conventional water softener - use the Search InspectApedia box just above to find WATER SOFTENERS for extensive information about that equipment.

For outdoor water use people usually install a tee in the water supply piping ahead of any water treatment equipment so that outdoor water can be used un-treated. That water would not be de-scaled by any equipment you install.

Your comments about the pump running continuously may indicate that your well is of limited flow rate.

On 2017-04-15 by Ely

I want to install an electronic water descaler but the only accessible indoor water pipe is the one going into the pressure tank, which is located in the detached garage, and which supplies both the main house and the guest house. There is a water holding tank outside which stores water pumped from our well.

The pressure tank in the garage has only a single pipe inlet/outlet. There must be a "T" located outdoors, with one branch to the pressure tank, one to the holding tank, and one to the houses. When I run water continuously, for example when irrigating the garden, or filling the bathtub, the pump operates continuously until the watering activity is stopped.

During this time, does the water going into the house bypass the pressure tank (via the "T")? In which case the descaler would not have access to the water going to the houses, and the water entering the house (during the time the pump is running) would not be descaled. Is this correct? Thanks!

On 2017-04-02 by (mod) - overflowing drain pipe

Rebecca:

Where is the water exiting: at a drain valve with a threaded opening? If so you can make a temporary fix by screwing on a hose cap available at any hardware store, garden supply store, or building supplier.

But watch out: if leakage is at a pressure relief valve then the water system is UNSAFE and should be shut off.

If leakage is at a piping connection then you'll need repair help from a plumber

On 2017-04-02 by Rebecca

Drain pipe on floor next to well pressure tank is overflowing? Please help

On 2016-08-14 by (mod) - how is well pump pressure control switch cutout pressure set?

Typically the cut-off pressure is not set by well depth but by building water flow/rate ("pressure") needs. Standard settings are CUT-IN / CUT-OUT pressures of
20/40 psi or 30/50 psi.

You can go up to 57 - beware of pressures over 60-70 psi as those risk plumbing leaks and still higher pressures are dangerous risking exploding pipes or tanks.

If your pump cannot reach the cutoff pressure you'd have to set it back.

A pump that runs too much may overheat or wear bearings or suffer a damaged impeller- shortening pump life and maybe showing up as pump unable to reach cutoff pressure setting. Search InspectApedia.com for PUMP WON'T STOP RUNNING to diagnse and fix those problems.

On 2016-08-13 by Damon

Hi. I have a 119 gallon champion tank with bladder. Well is approximately 450 feet deep. I'm trying to find out what the proper cut on cut off pressure on this tank should be. The well was installed 18 years ago but still running strong. On the tank it says 119 gallon 125 psi factory test pressure.

I noticed that the pump seemed to be cycling more frequently set at 28/44 so I made some adjustments. The current cut in is set at 35 on the gage. Turn off is set at 57. I also need to find out the appropriate air pressure psi - I know that needs adjustment because it's set at 22 psi on an empty tank.

Because it is an old system, Im trying to get it to run as efficiently as possible so I need to know what the most efficient settings are. I have it set to 57 and I don't know if that's too high. I have had to replace the startup capacitor twice because it was running so much so I know something needs adjusted -I'm just not sure what those settings are. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

On 2016-07-15 by (mod) - where to put the water tank and pump

You don't say where you live; certainly in a freezing climate the equipment is better off indoors, protected from freezing. Insulation on cold water piping and if necessary on a water tank can avoid condensation issues.

On 2016-07-14 by Margaret

We are building a new house and trying to decide where to put the water tank and pump. the well is located in the front yard so if we put it there even with a lovely structure built over it it seems a little unsightly. The other option is to put it in the basement but we have concerns about condensation, dampness, and bugs even though the basement has HVAC. do you have a recommendation?

On 2016-06-03 by (mod) - avoid rapid on off cycling pump

When a pump is delivering pressurized water to a building, to avoid rapid on-off cycling and thus pump damage, you need either a pressure tank (on the pump outlet side) or a pump with a control designed to operate without such a tank.

On 2016-06-02 by Ben Keith

I have a 300 gallon reservoir that gravity feeds the input side of my jet well pump through a 1 1/4 inch pipe. There is always water on that side of the pump. Do I still need a pressure tank?

On 2016-03-22 by (mod) - causes of water storage tank overflow

Debbi

Shutting off the well (your source of water supply) ought not cause a water storage tank to overflow: something's wrong. I suspect that the pump is running and that the problem is with the float switch that is used to turn the pump on and off. You won't hear a submersible pump as it's under-water, in the well.

Start by turning off power to the pump. Then have the control(s) repaired. Keep me posted.

On 2016-03-22 by debbi

my well holding tank outside is overflowing. it has a submersible well pump inside tank and a float switch.A repairman recently shut off well equipment when he replaced a kitchen faucet, since then it started leaking slow out of top of tank now it is coming out of valve on outside of tank.Water is way above fill line.

I don't hear pump running just water spilling out.? Advise I have a shallow well with a submersible pump too.

On 2015-12-18 by (mod) - how to get the manual for your water pump or tank

With information from the data tags: manufacturer, model, and serial number, we ought to be able to find the original installation manual and operating guide and product description

On 2015-12-17 by Matthew Weben-Jarco water pressure vessel

is there a way i can tell if my Weben-Jarco water pressure vessel built in 1987 is glass-lined WITHOUT opening it up for inspection?

On 2015-11-23 by (mod) - Pump comes on and off every 8 seconds

Daniel

I suspect that either you're not putting enough air into the tank or the tank has an air leak.

On 2015-11-21 by Daniel Consolacion Sr

I have water pump short cycling with bladder type tank. Pump comes on and off every 8 seconds whenever the water is on.
Problem: I pumped air in the tank but in a day, air is down to zero.

On 2017-08-08 by (mod) - boost water pressure in a second building by adding a pressure tank?

Mike,

You'd think so, and adding one probably wouldn't cause damage, but when I read the pump, pressure control, and tank installation guides the manufacturers of the tank and switch generally say put the tank close to the pressure control for effective operation.

In my photo you'll see that the pressure switch (small gray box in lower center of the photo) is quite close to the water pressure tank itself.

Incidentasly, we know from the control box on the wall that the switch is controlling a larger, heavier-duty pump relay switch (gray box upper center photo next to the wooden studs) that is in turn switching on and off a submersible well pump.

[Click to enlarge any image]

What I would consider, then, is adding a second tank plus a booster pump for your second building. You'll have tank, pump, and control close to one another and the building will see better pressure (flow).

I presume you have already assured yourself that the total water flow rate or capacity entering the first building is enough for two buildings and all of the users?

See WATER PRESSURE BOOSTER PUMP

There are also some nice booster pumps like the Grundfos SCALA2 that work with no pressure tank.

See WATER PUMP VARIABLE FREQUENCY / VARIABLE SPEED DRIVE (VFDs) that might be suitable for your second building's requirements.

On 2017-08-08 by Mike

I have a small pressure tank at the beginning of my water supply line. I'm adding a second building with a n additional water heater and 6 more faucets. Can I add a second pressure tank at the end (not beginning) of my new waterline?

On 2017-05-07 by (mod) - normal water level in a water tank

Anon: I don't understand the question; if your water storage tank is half full it's not dry.

If you mean that no water is coming out of the tank but it appears to still contain water, check

for a pressure tank bladder stuck to itself

debris clogging the tank outlet

a pressure gauge that is sticking and inaccurate

a pressure control switch that is debris clogged

On 2017-05-07 1 by Anonymous

Why does my 400 gallon water tank run dry after its half full ?

On 2017-03-10 by (mod) - bad leak at a water tank

Duck
Take a look at where the leaks are occurring. IF the tank itself is rusted, corroded, perforated, leaking, it needs to be replaced. If leaks are at plumbing connections it may be possible to repair those.

A torn or cracked bladder won't cause the tank to leak.

On 2017-03-10 02:58:43.398443 by Ducky

Hello I have a question about my pressure water tank see my pump went and I didn't get a new one until a year later that's rigJr I lived off rain water amd spring water for a year

anyways I finally got a new pump....but Now the pressure water tank is leaking really badly

now I am thinking it's because it Sat foe a year with no water in it and the bladder inside has cracked if of this is the case is there any way to fix this by NOT getting a new one? Thank you for ur time 😊

On 2017-03-06 by (mod) - pump is kicking on and off

Tareese

Search Inspectapedia using the search box just above - for WATER PUMP SHORT CYCLING - to read the diagnostic steps and repair steps you need for a pump that is kicking on and off.

On 2017-03-06 by tareese

pump kicking on and off

On 2017-02-18 by (mod) - shredding, shedding water tank liner

Paul and Marie and Tom:

We can get to the bottom of this by taking a close look at the nature of the debvris or crud that seem to be clogging faucet strainers. Rust flakes look like red rusty grit.

IF your water tank is a bladderless, steel model and IF it is so very old that it's not glass-lined, and moreso if your water supply is corrosive, then yes a tank could be shedding rust.

But more-likely there is debris in the water supply.

On 2017-02-18 by Paul lining in the pressure tank or the impellers in my pump failing?

I don't have a solution, but I have the exact same problem. My well pump is 21 years old and my pressure tank is 19 years old.

I suspect it could be either the lining in the pressure tank or the impellers in my pump failing. How old is your pressure tank and pump?

On 2017-01-25 by marie - water tank lining shreds and clogs faucets?

All the filters in my house are filling up with tiny white fibers.

I suspect that the lining of my water well tank is shedding these fibers and clogging up my faucets, washing machine, etc. This is a hassle for a 78 year old woman to take care of every two-three weeks.

It only started happening after my water tank was replaced with the "new and better" tank!

On 2016-11-28 by Tom Water from well is cloudy

Water from well is cloudy not clear could there be a problem with bladder tank?

On 2017-01-14 by (mod) - water leaking through electrical box near water tank

Doug

Watch out: What you describe is unsafe. You need to turn off power to the electrical circuit, have the leak repaired, and have an electrician inspect and repair or replace whatever electrical components have gotten wet.

On 2017-01-14 04:54:15.716401 by doug

electrical box over top drainage valve at base of holding tank has water leaking thru it

On 2016-10-29 00:12:50.482402 by (mod) - tank empties quick and fills quick running the pump more and more when taps are open

Chris,

If what you are describing is a change, that is if you used to have a longer water drawdown cycle before the pump would run, then I suspect either a leaky air valve at the tank which has allowed the air charge to leak out, the bladder itself may have a hole or be ruptured such that it has lost volume.

Start diagnosing this problem at WATER PUMP SHORT CYCLING

On 2016-10-28 by chris

I have a submersible pump with a water bladder tank, 30/50 switching valve. I noticed my tank empties quick and fills quick running the pump more and more when taps are open, it holds at 5o fine but doesn't take long to drop to 30psi

On 2016-10-16 by Alok

Recently i changed and get fixed new 750 leter pVC water tank Sheetal make. Being a top floor we got fixed a pressure pump also with it, but it become empty after each 4-5 hours without using so much water and there is no leakage in plumbing and cisterns.No Plumber is able to findout the problem. I become fadeup.Earlier there was no such type of problem.

On 2016-10-12 by Brian

Does anyone know what will happen I forgot to empty the pressurized water tank in my mobile home and I'm worried what will happen when it freezes.

On 2016-09-28 by (mod) - boost water pressure for water softener to work? Really?

Tank

Your water tank, the AO Smith PZ 120 is a galvanized water storage tank (see http://www.wstanks.com/permatank/pdfs/PPMBR00106.pdf ) that may not be delivered with an air valve.

A bladderless water tank does not reduce the life of a water pump per-se, but indeed IF the air volume control system used to keep a proper air charge in the pressure tank is itself not working, then the pump can end up shorty cycling and face a reduced life.

In those installations often I see an air valve on the tank tee at the tank bottom. By shutting off the water main between tank and house I can normally still use that valve to get air into the tank for pressure pre-charging, a procedure we use if simply fully draining the tank of all water, then turning the system back on doesn't work.

1. Your tank has several tappings including right on the tank top where there is a 1" NPT plug. That plug can be replaced with a 1" fitting that will step down to a 1/4" or 1/8" npt Schrader valve for adding an air charge if necessary.

2. The system pressure is produced by the water pump, not the pressure tank. The tank is simply giving you a bit of water draw-down time before the pump has to turn on; otherwise the pump would be short cycling and burn-up.

3. A bladderless tank does not decrease the life of a water pump per-se. However maintenance of the air volume in the any water tank is critical to avoid pump short cycling - an event that does reduce pump life. Maintaining the air charge in a bladderless tank can be a bit more difficult than in a tank with an internal bladder.

But I wouldn't rush to change the tank before knowing more about the water system and the well. E.g. your well flow rate may be so poor that a larger water tank was needed; and e.g. 2, if your system is old and uses a submersible well pump, changing to a bladder type tank could require also pulling the well piping to remove an old snifter valve system - increasing the changeover cost. Search InspectApedia.com for SNIFTER VALVES to read those details.

But I'm surprised at the pressure insisted-on by your installer. I would be sure to get my hands on the installation and operation manual for the water softener. There you will most likely see operating pressure specifications for the unit. If you don't, then I'd give the manufacturer's technical support a call.

See WATER PUMP SHORT CYCLING CAUSES

and

See WATER TANK LIFE EXPECTANCY

On 2016-09-24 by TankHelp

I recently had a water softener installed because my well water is very hard. The water softener installer asked what my water well pressure was set at on my well and tank - I told him 30 - 50 psi.

He stated the system pressure needs to increase to 40-60 or perhaps even 50-70 because the water softener may not work correctly with pressures below 40 psi.

Since I am a DIYer and an engineer, I figured, how hard can adjusting the pressure really be? I Googled it and all of the articles said that after adjusting the pressure switch, I need to set the water tank pressure about 2-4 psi below the cut-in pressure, i.e., if I raise it from 30-50 to 40-60, then the tank pressure would need to be set between 36 and 38.

Here is where the issue is - I could not find a Schrader valve on my tank to increase the tank pressure to 36-38.

I did some tank research on my tank and it appears to be a bladderless tank - specs as follows:

Manufacturer: AO Smith Water Systems Division

Description: Hydro-Pneumatic Pump Tank

Model #: PZ 120 3

Max Work Pressure (PSIG): 75

Manufacture year: 1994

Volume: 120 gallons

Height to top of dome: 64.5”

Height of cylinder not including dome top: 60”

Diameter: 24”

Water outlet: 1.5” NPT at 3” from the bottom on one side

Water inlet: 1.5”NPT at 12” from the bottom on the opposite side from outlet

Air ejector port: 1.25” NPT at 33” from the bottom on the opposite side from outlet

Top port: 1” NPT Plug

Since it appears to be a bladderless Hydro-Pneumatic Pump Tank, I have the following questions:

β€’ How do I adjust the tank pressure when there is no bladder - do I just adjust the pressure switch from 30-50 to 40-60 and that is all that is needed?

β€’ How is the system water pressure maintained at all of my faucets and sinks when the tank does not have a bladder to keep the system pressurized?

β€’ Does a bladderless tank decrease the life of the pump?

Thanks in advance for your help!



...

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