Internal bladder type water pressure tank diagnostic questions & answers:

These questions & answers help diagnos & fix problems traced to the internal bladder used in water pressure tanks.

This article series describes the diagnosis and repair of internal bladder type water pressure tanks: how they work, what goes wrong, how to fix it.

Water Pressure Tank Diagnostic Questions & Answers, Series 2

These questions and answers about diagnosing problems in water pressure tanks were posted originally

at WATER TANK BLADDER PRESSURE ADJUSTMENT - topic home. Be sure to see that article.

Also see WATER TANK BLADDER REPLACEMENT

[Click to enlarge any image]

On 2019-02-12 by (mod) - need for lower water tank pre-charge pressure?

That sounds like a very clever diagnosis, and a surprise. That is, one would not anticipate that a pressure tank would block its inlet at a standard air pre-charge, but you seem to have found that to be the case.

It'd be informative to get the brand and model tank and to review their literature.

I'd like to see a photo of the tank and its labeling to identify it as this snafu, docmented, will help others.

On 2019-02-12 by Anonymous

Hello danjoefriedman. I have one check valve at the inlet, and only one pressure regulator attached at the pump. I'm at sea level (florida) with a very shallow well (12 feet with8 1/2 fett of water. I'm using a sandpoint. I just went out and checked the tank pressure.

I'm running 30-50 so I assumed the pressure should be 28 psi. However upon reading the side of the tank it says to inflate it to 23 psi.

Search me why they want it 5 lbs lower than is the standard. So I lower the pressure.

Well low and behold the pressure drops, starts up at 30 and whaddaya know it keeps on climbing to 50 where it shuts off.

I'm wondering on this cheap tank if an over inflated bladder could have possibly been blocking the intake to the tank Thanks again for your time and help..

On 2019-02-12 by (mod) - pump gets water pressure higher than expected when running water in the building

What are the respective elevations - height in the building - of the poor flow vs good flow when running water?

Are there any check valves in the system? Other pressure regulators?

On 2019-02-12 by Anonymous

Thanks for the reply danjoefriedman. Yea I agree it's baffling. The pressure control switch working fine, turning off at 50psi, turning on at 30psi.

I'm wondering if there is air somehow trapped in the tank there bye creating too high of pressure for the water to enter. when i turn on the faucet I relieve some of the pressure in the tank. I dunno. Next step is going to be purchasing a larger tank and go from there.

On 2019-02-11 by (mod) -

When running water causes the pump to then pump to a higher pressure than otherwise, I'm baffled - but suspect a bad pressure control switch.

On 2019-02-11 by Anonymous

thanks Anon. The leak is somewhere in the house. Old house, old pipes. My main concern is that once the pressure drops to 30 psi and the pump kicks on is that it won't go above 30 unless I run about a half gallon of water through the faucets. At that point the pump functions as it should.

On 2019-02-10 by (mod) - signs of a leak in water piping

Anon

There is a leak somewhere in the system.

TUrn off water to the house - watch the pressure gauge; if it falls the leak is in well piping or at a pump check valve or foot valve.

On 2019-02-10 by Anonymous

I have a harbour freight pump tank combo. I get about 4GPM. We are two people living in a small residence. I am using a 30-50 pressure switch. The tank is 6 gallons and a month old. Air pressure on empty tank is 28 lbs.
The problem I am having is that I have a gradual pressure drop from 50psi to 30 psi every 2 -2 1/2 hours. When it reaches 30 psi the pump kicks on as it should, however instead of the pressure gradually rising, it remains at 30psi. I'll wait 5 minutes and it still won't move off 30 psi. I can solve the problem by running some water (1/2 - 1 gallon) in the house at which point the pressure will drop to 15-20 psi and the shoot up to its cut off pressure of 50psi.
The water pressure remains a constant 40-45psi when showering, washing clothes, dishes etc., however I can't leave the pump powered up at night or if we go away for more than 2 hours. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

On 2019-01-28 by (mod) - signs of a leak in sprinkler system

Steve

It sounds to me as if there is a leak in your sprinkler system, perhaps underground.

On 2019-01-28 by Steve

I am new to owning a home with a well. My house water pressure seems to be just okay but my sprinkler system running off of the same system has no pressure. I have a holding tank and two pressure tanks (one for the house and one for the sprinklers).

The house pressure tank has some water in it and appears to have decent pressure on the gauge. The sprinkler system pressure tank has no water in it and even after having air pressure added, it drops back down to about 10 psi. Two new pressure switches have been tried in troubleshooting this problem.

So that doesn’t seem to be it. After having added air pressure to the appropriate cut-in psi, the sprinkler system ran fine for about a minute. Then ran out of pressure and the tank air pressure dropped back down to about 10 psi again. Like it’s not holding the air pressure, nor is it it allowing water in. Any ideas? Thank you.

On 2019-01-18 by (mod) - r rapid on-off pump cycling can disturb debris in the well

Not that occurs to me right-off, Sue. However rapid on-off pump cycling can disturb debris in the well or in the water system.

On 2019-01-18 by Sue B

would a pressure tank that is failing cause intermittent black water?

On 2019-01-18 0 by (mod) - Air discharge at fixtures

Morgan

Please check out the air sources at
Air discharge at fixtures

https://inspectapedia.com/water/Air_Discharge_at_Faucet.php

As one of those sources may explain the problem you describe

Let me know how that works for you or ask additional questions as you need

On 2019-01-17 by Morgan- switch chattrer

I am getting switch chatter and when I check the pressure on the tank the pressure is way higher than the shut-off pressure on my switch. There is plenty of air in the tank. As soon as I remove some of the air the pump goes to working correctly again.

2 weeks later I have the exact same problem and once again have to remove air to get it to work correctly. is there any reason why I would be getting excess air in the tank other than somebody putting it in there on purpose

On 2019-03-21 by (mod) -

Mary,

Please use the search box on any of our pages to search this website for the phrase

Are discharged at Plumbing fixtures

To read the steps in diagnosing the cause and deciding the probable cure of the condition you describe

On 2019-03-21 by Mary

From faucet spitting and air bubbles in drawn water

On 2019-02-02 by (mod) - water pouring out at the contro panel/ relay switch

That sounds as if a pipe or tube conducting water pressure to a pressure control switch or the pressure control switch itself is leaking - one or both need replacement; that can be done once water pressure is removed from the system.

Watch out: wet electrical components normally should also be replaced - there are both risks of fatal electric shock and also future corrosion that make the components fail.

On 2019-02-02 by Candice Copeland

We have water pouring out at the contro panel/ relay switch ; turned off water but running everywhere

On 2018-11-23 by (mod) - well runs out and is taking time to recover.

I suspect that when you are using larger quantities of water your well runs out and is taking time to recover.

If we combine that problem with a well pump protection switch that shuts off the pump to prevent it from running dry and being damaged, the pump may be getting turned off by the switch.

The other possibility is a pump motor that is overheating from previous hard use - running dry or running for very long periods.

On 2018-11-23 by Anonymous

If we wash clothes and try to wash dishes the bladder shuts off and we have to restart it . Any ideas on what would cause this

On 2018-11-01 by (mod) - signs of a running toilet

If the valve that you closed is between the pressure tank and pump and the building itself, and if on closing that the pressure didn't fall, that would tell us the leak is in the building (such as a running toilet)

If the isolation valve that you closed is between the pump and the well, the it's the opposite conclusion.

I wouldn't "flush the system dry" (if this is an above-ground pump like a jet pump) unless you have a good water source for re-priming.

On 2018-11-01 Anonymous

Thanks for the speedy reply. I understand it could well be a leak in a joint etc in the well line so i will check this tomorrow thank you.

However tonight, as soon as the pump had shut off from its cycle and filled the system, i shut off the isolation valve which is located after the pressure tank (ours is the internal bladder/membrane type) and the pressure gauge on the controller stayed level and didnt slowly decrease like it has been.

Once i opened up the isolation valve it slowly dropped from 5.5bar down to 2 bar where it then sits before a tap is turned on. We have a pressure reducing valve further up the line which does seem to be 'hissing' whilst the gauge drops from 5.5 bar to 2bar.

Will still check line tomorrow in well but should i try flushing the system dry and then refilling it with all the taps open to see if there is any air elsewhere within the system? Its just strange this has only happened since the well ran dry a few weeks back.

On 2018-11-01 by (mod) - taps and toilets have been spluttering

Thank you for the nice comment, Andy. We work hard to provide researched, un-biased information so I'm really grateful when a reader finds it useful.

Sputtering taps usually means that there is air getting into the water supply system.

That can happen due to very low water in a well, but your observation that the pressure drops back down when no water is running in the building suggests that there could be a leak in well piping above the water level in the well. That will let water out as well as letting air into the system so that the next time the pump runs air appears at faucets (as it's over-charging the pressure tank with air).

If the leak were just air at a bad schrader valve I don't think you'd see pressure falling in the system.

Just what that valve will do when you depress the valve pin depends on where it's located in the system (on the tank or on the piping, for example).

If the valve is on a bladder tank pressing the pin will release air unless the bladder has burst and the tank is waterlogged.

If the valve is on a bladderless tank pressing the pin will release air unless the tank is completely waterlogged.

If the valve is on well or water piping near the tank (usually at its bottom level) pressing the valve pin may simply release water.

If pressing the valve does nothing then the valve is plugged or the system is at zero pressure.


See the diagnosis and repair advice at AIR DISCHARGE at FAUCETS, FIXTURES https://inspectapedia.com/water/Air_Discharge_at_Faucet.php

On 2018-11-01 by Andy Brumby

Hi, just to say this is a great website very helpful, read many things on it over the years.

My issue is that my taps and toilets have been spluttering for a couple of weeks now and it coincides since we dropped the well pump 10 inches due to a dry spell we had and the depletion in the well water. The system had run dry for a day so there was no water at all in the pipes in the house.

Now the pump is working fine but the pressure at the taps and toilets (worse upstairs) is very spluttery and quite loud. The pump reaches the correct pressure (5bar) then cuts out as it should but the gauge on the controller drops slowly to around 2 bar without any faucets open.

I have checked the expansion vessel we have and the schrader valve is giving me zero reading. No water or air hisses out when i put a pin on the valve head. I knock the bottom of the tank and it sounds tinny which i believe it should do.

So confused as to what the issue is and whether its the membrane inside burst? Sharder valve faulty? The lowering of the pump requiring me to decrease the pressure relief valve?

On 2019-01-18 by (mod) - failing water pressure tank cause black water?

Not that occurs to me right-off, Sue. However rapid on-off pump cycling can disturb debris in the well or in the water system.

More-likely is a leak into the well or very low water in the well itself or a pump too close to well bottom.

On 2019-01-18 by Sue B

would a pressure tank that is failing cause intermittent black water?

On 2019-01-18 by (mod) - sources of excessive air in the water pressure tank

Morgan

Please check out the air sources at

AIR DISCHARGE AT FIXTURES

As one of those sources may explain the problem you describe

Let me know how that works for you or ask additional questions as you need

On 2019-01-17 by Morgan

I am getting switch chatter and when I check the pressure on the tank the pressure is way higher than the shut-off pressure on my switch. There is plenty of air in the tank. As soon as I remove some of the air the pump goes to working correctly again.

2 weeks later I have the exact same problem and once again have to remove air to get it to work correctly. is there any reason why I would be getting excess air in the tank other than somebody putting it in there on purpose

On 2018-11-12 by (mod) - diagnose a pump that won't shut off or runs a very long time to get to shut-off pressure

Tony,

Try the diagnostics at WATER PUMP WONT STOP RUNNING

On 2018-11-12 by Tony

It takes a long time to pressure up and keep pressure

On 2018-05-16 0 by (mod) - how much water should be in the pressure tank?

a pressure tank should normally contain about 50% to a maximuym of 70% water when the pump turns off.

If your tank is not damaged and if it's a type that uses and internal bladder to keep the water and air separate then see this article

https://inspectapedia.com/water/Water-Tank-Bladder-Pressure-Adjustment.php

if you don't know what kind of pressure tank you have see this article

https://inspectapedia.com/water/Well_Mate_Tank_Diagnosis.php

On 2018-05-16 y Sue

I have pressure tank in my basement. It keeps filling with water and keeps retaining the water and I have to use a air compressor to remove the water. Can you tell me my problem?

On 2018-03-05 by (mod) - pressure control switch is mis-wired, dead, or its pressure sensing tube is debris clogged

That sounds as if your pressure control switch is mis-wired, dead, or its pressure sensing tube is debris clogged so it's not sensing water pressure. Try replacing the switch.

On 2018-03-03 by cubbagerj

I just installed a new jet pump and pressure tank.

At first the pressure tank will fill up but as soon as I turn a faucet on it will drain my tank but my well pump won't cut back on to fill tank.its a new jet pump

On 2018-03-01 by Lennox

i have insta lled a new well pump and pressure tank yet no water is going into the pressure tank could the tank be bad

On 2019-01-10 by Amber

Hi I just replaced my pump and then had my pressure tank go out and replaced that also.

My water pressure is terrible. My well guy said I have a leak “somewhere” yet prior to the pump going out everything was fine.

Would you happen to have any suggestions about what the problem may be?

On 2018-11-20 by (mod) - debris clogging the pressure control switch sensor Port

Typically that's not an adjustment problem it's a problem with debris clogging the pressure control switch sensor Port. You may need to replace the switch and clear the tube that conducts water pressure to it.

On 2018-11-19 by Dave

My water drains from my pressure tank and takes a while to come back on. How do I adjust kick on switch

On 2018-02-06 by (mod) - check the pressure at the air valve

Use a tire gauge and check the pressure at the air valve or Schrader valve normally found near the top of the tank.

On 2018-02-05 by mike

hi..how to check air pressure in bladder type tank

Is thier supposed to be water in the batter

On 2018-01-01 by (mod) - pressure tank does not have sufficient air charge.

That sounds as if your pressure tank does not have sufficient air charge. If it's a tank that uses an internal bladder, the bladder may be leaky.

On 2018-01-01 by Rob

Question, when I open a faucet pressure gauge on pressure tank starts to slowly drop from 60 psi and after a few psi drop it rapidly drops to cut in psi of 40, pump comes on and quickly fills and goes back up to cut out 60psi shutting pump off.

Tried testing pressure tank, cut power to pump, drained tank (not a lot of water in tank) and checked pressure. Pressure was high, 42psi so I assume reducing pressure should help but how did the pressure jump and would that prevent tank from filling with water?

On 2017-12-25 by (mod) - why I have no water from my well (pressure switch = 0) after softener degenerating

Fann.

Just guessing,, but it's possible that you have a well with very limited flow.

A water softener might typically run for 85 or 90 minutes during a regeneration cycle. It may be that that is exhausting your well. Then you'll have to wait for the weld recover before you have water again.

On 2017-12-25 by Fann PS

Merry Christmas To All!
I wonder why I have no water from my well (pressure switch = 0) after softener degenerating.

Normally, I must wait about 3 hours, after reseting the pressure of water tank, water flows is just fine. Is this a normal after softener degenerating. Thanks you.

Fann

On 2017-12-08 by (mod) - Running out of water in the well - symptoms

Rob,

Running out of water in the well can cause the symptom you describe.

If you leave water off for more than a few minutes and you see that you have more water (before running out) after that, the implication is that the flow rate of your well is poor and it needs a long recovery time.

The short click-on time suggests a water logged pressure tank.

The water pressure tank normally is about 1/2 to 2/3 full of water when the pump shuts off. Your tank pre-charge pressure is correct if you're measuring that under the right conditions: pump turned off, all water pressure drained from the system.

The button on the filter is to release pressure before unscrewing the filter base in order to change the cartridge.

I'd be sure you have pre-charged the tank correctly, then wait several hours or longer to see how the system behaves when you next run water.

Also check that water is actually entering the water tank. If when the pump turns off the water tank still seems empty (light) then the bladder may be stuck over the tank entry.

On 2017-12-07 by Rob

I lost power to my pump after I switched the spot of the pump breaker with another breaker in my panel. I switched them back and had water. The next day I lost water pressure, water would come out in a trickle.

I have a bladder in my pressure tank. Since then I have fixed the wiring issue, cleaned and checked the power to the pump, replaced the pressure switch and still very little pressure. If I do not turn the water on for a few minutes I have about 30 seconds of pressure before it fades.

The pressure in the tank is set at 28psi for a 30-50 pressure switch. The tank seems empty.

The pressure switch will click on and then click off after a very short time. Nothing seemed to fix the issue. There is a water softener system in place with a filter after the softener.

I noticed there was still water in the line to the filter. The filter is screwed into the line.

There is a handle on top of the filter that gives access to a red button that when I pressed I got air and then water coming out. Now I dont have any water.

Can a collapsed bladder still have the 28psi? Could air be blocking water from getting to faucet?

Question: pump can't get above 25 psi

(Oct 25, 2016) Ray said:

I'm having an issue with my above ground well pump not building more than 25psi. I changed the pressure switch, have plenty of water. When I shut the pump off it holds pressure, no problem. Do you,think it's the impeller on the pump or possibly the well tank.

Reply:

If the pump can't get above 25 psi there can be any of seveal problems like a well piping leak, bad pump impeller, or low water in the well. See these diagnostic and repair articles:

• WATER PUMP WON'T START
• WATER PUMP WONT STOP RUNNING

 

Question: pump won't shut off and water pressure won't go above 40 psi

(May 20, 2014) Anonymous said:
My water system is pumping water into bladder style pressure tank but will not go over 40 lbs and will not shut off. The system and tank has water in it but has low pressure and does not last very long.

(June 24, 2014) Randy said:

My J5S shallow well,drawing 6 ft, when empty works fine and builds to 50psi and shuts off. But when it hits 30 psi to cut on, binds up motor, it trys to spin. you can see its not reaching anywhere near motor RPM and chaters the start contacts.

If i let it drain, PSI goes to 0 and then about 2 min later it seems to drain again and the pump will run again for one cycle like i mentiond above ant find any leakes yet.
tank psi is always at output dial psi when running, tank psi is 28 when drained.
any ideas

Reply: diagnostics for well pump keeps running

Anon, we've put together some diagnostic suggestions for the problem you describe

Please see

inspectapedia.com/plumbing/Pump_Runs_On.php

Randy, It sounds as if the motor has trouble starting against pressure - which can be a failing motor. But check to see if the motor has a replacable start/run capacitor. See details at

inspectapedia.com/electric/Starting_Capacitors.php

(June 30, 2014) Randy said:
Thanks Dan, you nailed it. my capacitor was bad. it was a 125-147 Mfd and reading 127. replaced it and its been running great.

Reply:

Stupendous luck! Thanks so much for the feedback. I'll remember to keep the capacitor guess in the diagnostic lexicon. - DF

Question: need for pre-charge pressure in a water tank if lots of head pressure

(July 2, 2014) Dan Tipping said:
If You have lots of head pressure from a gravity feed system do I need a Pre charged tank?

Reply:

Dan

The air reservoir in a water pressure tank is there to smooth the on-off cycling of the pump that will otherwise short-cycle, causing damage to the equipment. If your home feeds entirely by gravity and doesn't use a pump there'd be no role for a pressure tank.

(July 3, 2014) Dan Tipping said:
Thanks, I was thinking the same. There is a pump that pumps the well water up a big hill to a tank. The tank then feeds the cabin. I recently had a leak in the pre charged tank and this got me wondering why it was even there. I think I will get rid of it... Thanks,
Dan

Reply:

Usually people don't install equipment without a reason, buut a pressure tank on the building side of the water supply tank on a gravity system = I dunno why it's there.

Question: diagnose water pressure problems restricted to just some fixtures after my daughter hit the electrical box with a go-cart

(July 5, 2014) Anonymous said:

My daughter hit the electrical box to our well with a go-cart I had to do some rewiring but pump seems to work I have great pressure to all outside facets and I have great pressure to booth showers and fair pressure to the kitchen sink, but I have no pressure to the bathroom sinks and no water to the toilets.

Reply:

Anon,
I can but suggest that if the pump system is giving proper pressure in some parts of the home, then if pressure is bad in others it's not likely to be an electrical nor control switch problem. look for a blockage or valve partly shut or clogged piping.

Question: leak and hissing at the well cap

(July 6, 2014) Joe said:
I have a question, 2 years ago I changed from a pressure tank to a bladder tank. The two systems were just swapped.

1 year ago I noticed a small leak coming from the well cap and hissing noise. Now it seems to have gotten a bit worse were you can see the water coming out and hear the hissing noise louder.

Was their something that needed to be adjusted at the well cap when switching over? What do you believe the problem is? Thanks

Reply:

Joe,

Often an older non-bladder water pressure tank, IF in use with a submersible pump, included a snifter valve in the well and an air vent near the tank that needed to be removed when you converted to an internal bladder type tank.

See SNIFTER & DRAIN BACK VALVES

Question: sudden pressure drop when water pump stops pumping

(Aug 6, 2014) Anonymous said:

I have a 30/50 pump. Mine starts at 30 and stops at 50, but once it reaches 50 it starts to quickly come down to 46 psi and stops there.

Any ideas why it would do that?.. I don't think there's a leak because it won't come down passed 46 psi, even after more than an hour without running any faucets...is this normal?

Reply:

Anon:

That brief pressure drop at pump shut-off may be an error in the pressure gauge, debris blocking at the gauge, or a leaky check valve.

Question: troubleshoot inconsistent water pressure

(Sept 8, 2014) louw said:
water system does not feed even pressure it surges all the time. is the bladder damaged or over inflated

Reply:

LouW

At the ARTICLE INDEX at the end of this article see the article titled WATER PUMP SHORT CYCLING for an explanation of surging water pressure and advice on how to diagnose and fix the trouble.

Question: how to get air into the water tank

(Sept 15, 2014) Jobish said:
How can i fill air again in to the pressure tank because i checked air quantity and reading is zero.

Reply:

Jobish

In the More REading links just above see the article titled

WATER TANK PRESSURE ADJUSTMENT

for details about adjusting the air pressure in a water tank bladder.

Question: groaning noises from the water tank

(Oct 25, 2014) Kris Tuttle said:
I've got a terrible groaning noise coming from mine. It's been installed a long time and often groaned when you turned off the water or flushed the toilet but just for about 30 seconds. Now it's groaning loudly all the time *unless* I turn the water on.

It stops after a couple seconds. But then when you turn the water off it starts up again. Our place is small and the noise is too much.

Reply:

Often we hear a "groaning" noise at a water tank when there is an obstruction at the bladder or tank inlet causing vibration of pipes or bladder when water is entering the tank.

See WATER TANK NOISE DIAGNOSIS

Question: trouble re-starting pump and tank system after cabin has been shut down

(Dec 4, 2014) Anonymous said:
My well has always been shout down when I leave my cabin,when restarted it would pump all the air out of the system and work fine.Now for the last six months when I start it up the pump starts, runs for a minute removing the air then stops.

After a minute or two starts pumping again, it does this 6 or 7 times befor I get water .It seams like when all the air is out water starts flowing and the pump runs fine. When I leave and drain it again,the nest time I start it up it does the same thing. I changed the pressure valve and checked the pressur in the bladder.

Reply:

Anon

Do you think perhaps the pump is overheating and shutting off on thermal reset?

Question: WellRight 60R tank leaking from bottom: can it be repaired?

(Dec 31, 2014) Anonymous said:
wr60r well rite diaphram water tank leaks water from the bottom ,can this be repaired

Reply:

Temporary patches using a screw and neoprene washer or epoxy are just that: temporary and usually not long-term reliable. I'd replace the tank unless the leak is at a threaded plumbing fitting that can be re-made.

Question: pump runs continuously when water to the house is turned on

21 Jan 2015 Frank said:

I have a bladder type water tank. All operates good when the valve to the house is shut off. When I open the valve to the house the pumps runs continuously, and I still have no water to the house.
Can someone please give me advice? Thank you.

Reply: running pump traced to outside faucet left on

Frank

If the well pump gets the system up to pressure and shuts off properly when water to the house is turned OFF, but runs continuously when water to the house is turned back ON then either there are plumbing fixtures running in the house or there is a leak somewhere in the house water piping system.

The fact that you see no water at fixtures in the house itself suggests that there is a leak between pressure tank and house OR that another tank or system such as a water heater is being filled.

Try turning off water to individual areas of the home then opening them one at a time to narrow down the area of problem.

(Jan 22, 2015) Frank said:
Thanks so much for your help! I'll try that this weekend when I go back out there. I'm new to this stuff, so your help is much appreciated.

(Jan 25, 2015) Frank said:
You're a life saver! I did just as you said. Sure enough I found a spicket outside that was just barely open. I had inadvertenty opened in the fall when I was putting insulation around it.

I was so worried that I may have had a broken pipe or something. Thanks so much.

Reply:
Nice going Frank and thanks for the feed-back

Question: under ground is it a good place for a bladder tank?

(Feb 7, 2015) Anonymous said:
1 got a 20 gallon bladder tank and the well company put it 6 ft under ground is it a good place for a bladder tank? T hey had to dig it up once and it cost me then. What can I do to make them put it under my crawl space?

(Feb 7, 2015) avi said:
i have a bladder style tank and I think the water is frozen at the bottom of it during 3 sub zero temps and high wind the window next to the tank is broken and the plastic covering hole fell away and extremely cold air blew in and on tank in basement.i had frozen pipes so I placed kero heater in basement to thaw .

before this had water but then slowly went down in pressure and then nothing.ive had no water for 2 days pipes seem warm the tank feels like water is in it but feels like its solid air comes out of air valve at top of tank when depressed.but when you hit the pipe coming out of tank sounds hollow

.and the pumptrol switch contacts are closed like its calling for water but nothing happens when I open the valve before the water pressure gage water comes out but no water comes out of house faucets .can some one help please thanks for your time and input

Reply:

Avi

I agree that your system is probably frozen. Search InspectApedia for "DeWinterizing" to see step by step procedrues.

If by "underground" you mean that the pressure tank is in a well pit, that is a common practice to protect the equipment from frost.

If you mean that a conventional internal bladder pressure tank was actually buried, that sounds odd - I'd want to know the tank brand and model and then to check with the manufacturer on where it can be installed.

Question: Ontario winters & water pressure, pump & tank trouble

(Feb 8, 2015) Richard said:
Hi I live in Ontario, Canada and I've experiencing a strange situation over the last two years, what happens is that during the colder parts of winter February, March I loose water pressure on my bladder tank.

The pressure builds up again once I toggle the pressure switch, we are using a submersible pump about 30feet down a cast well 4ft underground lines into house the thru pressure tank into house.

As I said this only happens during winter month and thru out the summer I have no problem as I’m even able to top up swimming pool without it cutting out. Any insight as to why this happens would be appreciated.

Reply:

Richard,

In most areas, including Ontario, the water table drops in summer, not winter. So I suspect more that something is freezing; if your well can't send up water because the pitless adapter or well piping are not below the frost line and so are freezing that could be the trouble. Where are the controls - the pressure switch?

(Feb 11, 2015) Richard said:

Thanks for your reply here are the details the water supply Line and wiring is 4 to 5 foot below grade the foot valve and submersible pump is 30ft down a cast wall well and the controls and bladder tank are in my basement corner where the supply line and power come in/out.

Reply:

Richard when I had this problem in New York it was because in very cold weather, especially when there was not much snow cover (for insulation) shallow water lines were freezing.

IN Ontario your frost line depth is nearly six feet (1.8 metres in Ottowa) though I've read some sources putting it up higher at 5 ft - it depends on where you live of cousre, and over in Windsor is just about 1 metre (3.3 ft) (usually).

I'm guessing first in the frost direction because of the cold-weather relationship.

There could be of course another explanation, even (rarely) wet wiring that pushes apart a wet twist-on connector that is freezing.

(Feb 12, 2015) Richard Jones said:

Hi and thanks for replying again I was wondering about frost levels myself we change from a shallow well to a deep well setup in 2011 and the problem 1st appeared last year 2014, but the weather here in central Ontario was cold last year and we have had some good cold snaps this year also

. I was wondering if the ground water was freezing and not getting into the well ?

But this week I’m going to check the pressure switch and make sure the orifice is not blocked and also replace gauge plus look into a solid state sensing device that monitors motor load and incoming power to automatically shut off the pump.

We have adapted the routine of not running two items at once to reduce load on the water supply but last night when running a bath for the grandkids we lost the pressure three times, as for pulling the pump that will have to wait to spring to look at connections as its too darn cold and the snow is covering the location.

Reply:

I'd check for debris-clogging of the pressure switch sensing tube or crud in the sensor port at the switch bottom; typically we just replace a suspect switch in that case.

If the switch were outside certainly it could freeze.

(Feb 14, 2015) Richard Jones said:

I came home to zero water tonight so started checking things a little deeper here’s what I did.

1 checked voltage had 240vac across terminal on pressure switch

2 checked the pump wiring main blk-yell wires had 4.7ohms, start red-yell had 18.2ohms, checked all wires to ground nothing shorted.

3 replaced pump control box (didn’t have means to test start capacitor)

4 checked amp draw had 5.2amps

Everything says pump is good and running but not building pressure next on list to check will be check valve to make sure it hasn’t failed and replace as a precaution, replacing the low water cutoff switch to be sure it’s not that also (doubt it is faulty). If after this I guess I’m going to have to dig 3ft of snow off well cover and gain access to well and start checking there.

(Feb 15, 2015) Richard Jones said:

Good news we now have water changed everything in the house that could be changed and still didn’t have any water (pump was working according to clamp on meter), so off the local big boys toys store and purchased myself a fish tape.

Put fish tape down the line found a blockage 3 ft. from entry point to the house, phone local rental store see if they had a steamer they did but it was out, so did some internet reading and came across a product called “Liqui-fire” which says its safe for supply water.

Then had to make a longer pipe adapter to put on supply line and filled it with Liqui-fire which local hardware had, left it overnight and checked at 7am this morning joy of joy blockage was gone.

Put everything back together and had problems filling system as the water sounded like it was spurting, I had to hold low pressure cut off switch on manually for 10 mins till I got 30psi and it then very slowly built up to 50psi.

So recon I still need to access the well check depth and adjust pump height according to what I find but that can wait for spring. So a big thank you for walking me thru and you suggestions I appreciate your help in my dilemma.

Reply:

Good work Richard. Indeed years ago I had a similar problem during very cold weather.

The local well plumber came out, opened the well piping, and uses his home-made hot water pump to circulate hot water into the open pipe end until he could melt his way through. Outdoor well piping freeze problems are of course worse in very cold weather without snow cover.

Question: What makes the water pressure drops when the well pump is off?

(Feb 18, 2015) JimP said: What makes the water pressure drops when the well pump is off?

Reply:

Jim

If the psi just drops a pound or three I think it's cessation of head pressure from the running pump.

If pressure drops and continues to fall there's either water running somewhere or there's a leak.

Question: replaced pressure control switch - do I need to change the tank pre-charge pressure?

I have a 20 gal wellxtrol with a 30-50 psi squareD pumptrol switch with pressure reading that are unusual. The pressure switch needed replacing because contacts were sticking. I put in a new pressure gauge and measured before I replaced the switch: tank pressure 18 psi, cut in 42 psi, cut out 67 psi.

The system seems to work fine. It's 25 years old. I replaced the switch with the same, and adjusted it to 38 psi cutin, 64 psi cut out. Do I need to increase the tank pressure to 36 psi? Should I be using a 30-50 psi switch when running 38-64 psi cutin-cutout? - D Harry 10/28/11

Reply:

D Hurry:

First, if your present pressure control switch is handling your (somewhat high) setting of 38/64 psi cut-in/cut-out you don't need to change the switch.

In the article above we list the factory air pre-charge settings for models of Well-x-Trol water pressure tanks.

Please read the WARNINGS about messing with tank air pre-charge in the article above.

Then you can set your pre-charge pressure (with all water drained out of the tank) to 2 psi below the cut-in pressure on your pressure switch, or as you suggested, for a 38 psi cut-in, you'd set the air charge to 36 psi.

That 4 psi difference, however, is not very significant. Leaving the tank at factory pressure and setting the pressure control switch to a higher cut-in/cut-out pressure means that the volume of water you can draw from the tank before the pump turns on is a bit reduced.

Question: water dripping from water pressure tank gauge

i need to know what the ptoblem might be if there is water dripping from the water gauge where the floast is on the water tank - Robin 11/27/11

Reply:

Robin it sounds as if your gauge mount is leaking or the gauge itself has failed internally and is leaking from the gauge assembly. It should be possible to purchase a new part and using pipe dope, teflon tape, or teflon pipe sealant, replace the part and seal the leak.

You'll need to turn off the pump, drain pressure from the system (you don't need to fully drain the system) to install the new part.

Question: how long for water pressure to return after bleeding the pressure tank?

how long should it take to have well water pressure back after bleeding and reseting? - Matt 12/30/11

Reply: one pump "on" cycle

Matt:

For a typical residential water pressure tank, after restoring a lost air charge in the water tank bladder or making a tank pressure adjustment, the well water pressure should return within less than a minute after the well pump has begun to run.

If no water is running in the building but the pump has turned on and is re-filling and re-pressurizing the water pressure tank, the total pump run time will typically be 1-4 minutes from pump turn-on until the pressure in the tank reaches the cut-off level, depending on tank size and water system delivery rate.

Question: do I need to verify the factory-set air pressure in my water pressure tank - will that fix bad house water pressure?

I have a Well-X Trol (size to be verified tonight)pressure tank.
If water is being utilized at one fixture, pressure seems to be non-existant at any others.

My pump cuts-in/out at 30# & 50# on the nose, with no aparent short cycling.
After reading this (incredibly informative) page, can anyone verify my assumption that I need to verify my factory set pressure? (disable pump, drain, check pressure, add if needed) - Scott J 1/9/2012

Reply: no, no.

Scott J,

We need to distinguish between water pressure and flow rate or quantity.

Static water pressure when no water is running shows us the system maximum water pressure possible after the pump has cut off at the "cut out" pressure set by the pressure control switch.

Active water "pressure" and flow rate: if you have normal water pressure in the system at one fixture but inadequate or very little pressure as soon as a second fixture is turned on, that suggests that there is a water delivery problem - often traced to clogged piping or a control valve that is partly closed somewhere.

The pressure in your water pressure tank determines the length of the draw down cycle - how long water can run before the pump has to turn on. It is the pressure control switch and pump and well capacity that determine the system functioning water pressure and flow rate.

So from your complaint, I may be mistaken but I don't quite see how changing the pre-charge pressure in your water tank would help. I'd leave it alone. Instead, see

WATER PRESSURE & FLOW MEASUREMENT - for how to measure what your system is doing
and see

WATER PRESSURE LOSS DIAGNOSIS & REPAIR (article links listed at the ARTICLE INDEX the bottom of this article ) to further diagnose the trouble.

Question: short cycling pump troubles

I need assistance with my short cycling problem. Woke up one morning to no water. Removed the cover from pressure switch and the contacts touched, pump started running , but only a few seconds, contacts separated again. I held them shut manually and the pump ran as long as the contacts were shut, but when I released it they opened again.

Bought a new switch, installed it and now all it does is on and off, on and off the entire time that water is running.

But I noticed that the pressure guage stays at 40 all the time, never moves.

So I checked the air in the tank with a tire guage , and it read 30 psi. I did not drain it yet to check it. I am waiting on an answer from you before I do that. If I tap on the tank, it sounds hollow at the top 1/3 of it, and the bottom sounds solid.

So I don't know what the cut in /cut out is set at, because the guage does not move at all. I don't know where to start at to try to diagnose this. I can't call a plumber because I am disabled and can't afford it, so I have been getting alot of knowledge from your site.

PLEASE HELP ME, I have to get this repaired asap, I have 2 children living here, 2 year old and an 11 month old. I am mechanically inclined, just need to get an idea where to start. Any ideas for me?
Thank you so much,
Lisa - 3/19/12

Reply:

Lisa, over at WATER PUMP SHORT CYCLING you can read how to diagnose and fix the trouble

...

Continue reading at WATER TANK BLADDER PRESSURE ADJUSTMENT or select a topic from the closely-related articles below, or see the complete ARTICLE INDEX.

Or see these

Recommended Articles

• WATER PUMP SHORT CYCLING
• WATER TANK BLADDERS & CAPTIVE AIR
  • WATER TANK BLADDER BURST or LEAKY
  • WATER TANK BLADDER CONSTRUCTION
  • WATER TANK BLADDER PRESSURE ADJUSTMENT
  • WATER TANK BLADDER REPLACEMENT
  • WATER TANK BLADDER STUCK to ITSELF
• WATER TANK CAPTIVE AIR vs TRADITIONAL WellMate
• WATER TANK CLEANING CODES STANDARDS
• WATER TANK CONTROLS & SWITCHES
• WATER TANK DIAGNOSIS & REPAIR - home

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INDEX to RELATED ARTICLES: ARTICLE INDEX to WATER SUPPLY, PUMPS TANKS WELLS & SPRINGS

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