Water pressure tank air pre-charge adjustment questions and answers.
This article series describes how to add air to a building water pressure tank and it reviews the function and repair of water tank air volume controls or snifter valves in a building water supply system where a private well is the water source.
The illustration at page top is courtesy of Carson Dunlop Associates, Inc. in Toronto.
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These questions and answers about why we need an air charge in a water pressure tank and how that air pressure is set and maintained were posted originally at WATER TANK AIR, HOW TO ADD - be sure to review the diagnosis and repair advice given there.
I love this website and appreciate the good work you are doing.
I am trying to diagnose a problem with my well. I have looked through your site and I’m not sure I saw a problem quite like this one.
The symptom is when water is turned on, after a couple of seconds, it begins to surge and pulses harder and softer after that. I live in Sacramento, have an outdoor well and tank which is 220 gallons, galvanized steel, and I believe to be bladderless. I have the pressure switch set to 40 -60 psi.
When I watch the water pressure gauge, when the water is turned on, it goes down to 40 in about 7 seconds, the pump kicks in and it jumps up to about 65 psi in about 5 seconds and shuts off. It continues this cycle continuously while the faucet remains on.
After reading your website, I was hoping I had a waterlogged tank. I shut off the power, opened the hose bib.
The tank emptied pretty fast, but kept gurgling with little bits of water coming out every so often. I shut the bib off, restarted the pump and it did the same thing. It doesn’t seem to be filling the tank. Any ideas on how to proceed?
Thanks! -
Max
Max,
Your description sounds like a water-logged pressure tank. Your observation that when you opened the hose bib "The tank emptied pretty fast, but kept gurgling with little bits of water coming out every so often." might mean that the tank was not really emptying at the hose bib. Rather the first water that came out was that which was under pressure.
After that, the full tank was dribbling water slowly out of the hose bib as intermittently a little bubble of air found its way back into the tank to thus allow a little more water to escape. That gurgling dribbling at the hose bib may be another clue indicating a waterlogged pressure tank.
Under the article named
WATER PUMP REPAIR GUIDE (links at the ARTICLE INDEX the bottom of this article ) beginning with the article titled SHORT CYCLING WATER PUMP, you'll see some articles on the causes and cure of short cycling on-and-off of the water pump, which is usually the explanation for water pressure surging and pulsing as you describe.
One cause of the rapid pressure drop you are citing ("it goes down to 40 in about 7 seconds") is a waterlogged water pressure tank - a tank that has lost its air charge - which may be why you're reading this article. The air in the water pressure tank acts as a giant spring to smooth the delivery of water to the plumbing system. When the air is lost or the air volume is too small, there's no spring. Because water is not very compressible, the pump comes on, rapidly reaches cutoff pressure, then cuts off. A result is rapid cycling on and off of the pump, and pulsing water pressure in the building.
Three methods for fixing a waterlogged pressure tank:
You're on this same investigation path, but it sounds as if you did not successfully add air to the tank. Just draining out some water, especially at first, is just draining out water that was under pressure. You need to get air into the tank using one of the methods we describe in this article (above). See these procedures for adding air at the water pressure tank:
WATER TANK AIR VOLUME CONTROLS
WATER TANK AIR ADD AT AIR VALVE
WATER TANK AIR ADD BY DRAINING
Also you might need to take a look at
WATER TANK AIR HOW MUCH TO ADD
WATER TANK AIR HOW OFTEN TO ADD
I've also seen this rapidly short-cycling water pump symptom when a water filter on the system is clogged or dirty.
Because the well pump can't force water through the filter fast enough to keep up with flow in the building, it can cause the pump to cycle on and off quickly, causing water pressure to behave similarly.
Of course there could be other causes, so after you've read the articles I've suggested,
1. post a comment or question here if you have specific questions that remain
2. let us know what you find, as what you learn will help other readers.
I can't thank you enough for your website and quick response! I wanted to write you back and let you know the outcome of my little well issue.
The surging water I described appears to have been caused by what you describe as “Well pump short cycling.” After reading (more carefully) your article: Well Pump Short Cycling: How to diagnose “Water Pump Short Cycling” and restore Air in a Building Water Tank
[see this article at SHORT CYCLING WATER PUMP] and your response,
I was hopeful that the cause was a waterlogged tank. I read your step by step instructions and it worked beautifully.
Opening up nearby hose bibs and the schrader valve helped the water drain more quickly, but it still took several hours to drain the tank.
Before I tried this, the tank was draining so slowly and gurgling, I didn’t think it was still full of water. It has been nearly a week the well is working perfectly now. Not only did you save me some money, but more importantly, fixing it myself was good for my self esteem. Thanks again!
Max, reading over your notes I add the observation that your 220 gallon water tank is larger than common in-building residential tanks (30-50 gallons) and may be an indicator that your well itself has a limited flow rate or water delivery capacity.
When we have a well of limited flow, a solution (other than drilling a new well) is to install a very large water storage tank and allow the pump to fill the tank at a slow rate that doesn't exceed the flow rate of the well. That assures the building always has plenty of water.
A worry, however, is that the slower the flow rate of a well, the higher the risk that it eventually stops completely. If you should need to investigate the well flow rate further, take a look at
WELL FLOW RATE or the well flow rate test procedures
at WELL FLOW TEST PROCEDURE and
see WELL YIELD IMPROVEMENT for help in increasing the well yield or flow rate. These and related articles are found at the ARTICLE INDEX the bottom of this article
under WELLS CISTERNS & SPRINGS
I need help. My well is cycling and the holding tank is not filling up with water. How do I pressurize it? There is a pressure valve on the pump. But I cant seem to locate a valve stem anywhere. HELP~!! - Tammy
Tammy, there are three approaches to re-charging the air in a water pressure tank - please read about them in the article above. If your tank doesn't have an air valve you can recharge it by draining.
Use or repair the water tank air volume control, if one is installed - details are
at WATER TANK AIR VOLUME CONTROLS
Use the water tank air inlet valve or tire valve or "schrader valve" to pump air into the tank - details are
at WATER TANK AIR ADD AT AIR VALVE
Drain the water tank using a garden hose and allow air to enter the tank - details are
at WATER TANK AIR ADD BY DRAINING
I have a heavy growl when the well pump (submerged) recharges the well tank. I can feel the vibration in the hard plastic pipe from the pump; and, it telegraphs throughout the home's copper pipes. I used the gravity method to drain the tank. Pressure gage read 34psi when completely drained.
When pump switch turned back on, pressure immediately jumped to 38; and, when tank allowed to run down, low-pressure switch kicked in at 38psi.
This did not resolve the growl/vibration issue. But, when checked the Schroeder valve after performing above procedure, noted that tank pressure at valve is 44.5psi.
Should I relieve the pressure at the Schroeder valve with the tank full, or empty? Should it be lowered to 36psi? If I still have the growl/vibration problem, could my submerged pump be wearing out? - Ron
Ron, before changing the tank pre-charge pressure, see if your tank bladder is sticking to itself. A well driller recently suggested to us that he tries freeing up a stuck internal tank bladder by briefly and just one time, holding the pressure switch relay down to force the pump to a higher pressure TEMPORARILY.
Watch out: - don't push the water tank pressure up past or even close to the rated tank pressure or you may burst the tank and worse, be injured.
Thanks so much for all the great work - but for purposes of actually adding air to my tank, I have to say it may be both too much and too little! Have cycled through several of the pages and page/links and still never found out step by step how to add air to my tank!
Do I drain it first?... leave what valves open and what closed? Power on or off? Use my compressor after dropping pressure to the cut off point or just below or 0, or fill air pressure with the tank already full and pressurized..? what levels do I stop and start adding air with my compressor? Again... your tremendous efforts are really appreciated, but finding the answer I need is just too confusing, for me anyway.
I am losing pressure at my well pressure gage with the water shut off leaving the water tank I put in 30 psi in the top of the tank and in 45 min its reading zero time for a new pressure tank ? thanks Karl
Karl the water pressure tank could have a leak in itself, in which case you'd hear air hissing out or see water leaking out of the tank. But with the main water valve shut off (closed) between the pressure tank and the rest of the building, if pressure in the water tank continues to fall, the most common cause is a leaky check valve or foot valve
. Depending on the pump type, there may be a check valve right in the end of the well pump (an above-ground one line jet pump) or the equivalent check valve may be at the end of the well piping (submersible pump and 2-line jet pumps).
The check valve or foot valve keeps water and pressure from leaking backwards out of the pressure tank and back down into the well when the pump stops running. If this valve is leaky you'll lose water tank pressure (and water) back into the well and eventually an aboveground pump will lose prime and you'll lose all water pressure.
A second cause of this same symptom can be a leak in the well piping itself, anywhere between the water pressure tank and the bottom of the well;
(Nov 21, 2014) Anonymous said:
The pump froze up two days ago. I have water at the pump but I can't get it to come into the house. How can I get the water to come into the house?
I suspect that either the pump was damaged by freezing or pipes are frozen or shut off elsewhere.
(Dec 12, 2014) al said:
I want to add air to my water pressure tank. The pressure meter reads 26 pounds my air gauge off the side reads 22 pounds. My tank says it's factory set pressure is 30 psi. Should I fill to 30 psi based on a good pressure gauge reading off the side?
Before adding air to the water tank, Al, you might want to determine if there is a problem such as a leak. Set the tank psi to 2 psi below the pump cut-in pressure. Keep in mind that pressure gauges are not necessarily precise.
For example if you are measuring water pressure using a stick-type tire gauge the reading may indeed be a few psi different from what the mounted dial gauge reads even if the stick type gauge is working more or less normally.
(Jan 23, 2015) John McKinsey said:
I have an old (1967) large cylindrical bladderless galvenized steel tank (about 750 gallons).
it has the typical air volume control located at the halfway point (radius of the cylinder). Over the last few months I have been losing the air volume resulting in shorter and shorter cyclings of the well pump.
I have looked for leaks on the upper fittings but have not any (soap/water). How can I test the air volume control mechanism? But also, how could it even be a source of a total loss of the air volume since it is only half the way up the tank? I really do not want to replace the tank.
John
That's a very large water storage tank with a large volume of air charge. If you're losing air rapidly I'd look for a leak at the tank's upper portion just as you did.
AVC testing, if any is poossible, depends on the type of air volume control installed. Use our email found at our CONTACT link to send me photos of your control if you like .
Meanwhile you can note the point on the tank side that marks the top of the water level - and thus the bottom of the air charge when the pump has shut off. If that line (say looking for condensation or feeling for temperature difference) is near the tank top, add air and note how long that lasts.
(Apr 3, 2015) Bob Chervenock said:
My pump/tank runs at 30-50PSI, and had slowly crept to running at 38-58PSI.
I adjusted the pressure switch back down to 30-50. Doing this, I noticed on water demand (washer, toilet, faucet, etc) the pressure drops about 5PSI during the demand. If my tank is at 35PSI and a demand is made, pressure immediately drops by 5PSI to 30, and turns on the pump.
Is this normal? If not, what is the problem (dirty water filter, bladder low pressure or air leak, etc)?
The problem is not caused by the pressure gauge, which is fully functional. It is water demand that causes the gauge to drop 5psi. When the gauge is on ANY pressure, it drops 5psi upon demand, and springs back up when demand is removed.
Of course, Bob a pressure gauge won't cause a water pressure problem - it only reflects system pressure. But a bad gauge can mis-read pressure and thus confound diagnosis.
If the water pressure is not properly turning the pump on and off then look for what I suggested earlier - a blocked pressure diaphragm sensor port on the pressure switch.
Other possibilities are listed In the ARTICLE INDEX found among the Continue Reading links at the end of this article in several diagnostic articles such as
LOW WATER PRESSURE DIAGNOSTIC FAQs
and
WATER PRESSURE DIAGNOSIS, PRIVATE WELL
A small leak in a tank bladder can cause a creep-up of tank pressures.
10 Apr 2015 Jackson Tyler said:
The air volume controls should be checked and maintained fairly regularly. Pumps are important to keep the entire system running. Without the pump, the wells don't work, and they that can be very problematic.
21 April 2015 eric said:
Mine reads 120 psi. Everything runs fine though...
Eric
WATCH OUT: I doubt that there is a normal residential water pressure tank intended to operate at 120psi: the risk is a burst tank, injury if someone is nearby, and a building flood. This is an unsafe condition - if the pressure really is that high.
It is possible that the actual pressure is nowhere near what you are reading. The gauge itself may be defective or clogged or stuck. (Have you tried tapping on it?)
Start by making an independent check of the actual system water pressure.
See
inspectapedia.com/water/Water_Pressure_Measure.php
ALSO make sure that a pressure relief valve is installed on your water system: typically this valve is found at the tank tee at the tank connections.
See
inspectapedia.com/water/Water_Tank_Safety_Valve.php
case which offers an example of diagnosis of loss of water pressure, loss of water, and analyzes the actual repair cost.
WATER PUMP CONTROLS & SWITCHES contains advice on how to adjust water pressure and water pump cut-in and cut-out pressures.
On 2014-01-25 by (mod) - problemn with my water losing pressure to the point it stops running
My two recommendations below pertain to the reader who asked
I have a problemn with my water losing pressure to the point it stops running. By me draining the tank while the power is off ,and then by turning the pump and faucets back on seem the right way of doing things?
On 2014-01-25 by (mod) -
To read about the relationship between the water pressure tank and building water pressure delivered at the fixtures, please search InspectApedia for this article
WATER TANK vs WATER PRESSURE
On 2014-01-25 by (mod) - draining and re-filling the pressure tank would fix a loss in building water pressure
To the reader who asked if draining and re-filling the pressure tank would fix a loss in building water pressure - (the system blocked your comment because it thought your note contained a hyperlink or malware) - the answer is probably not.
Search InspectApedia for either of these two articles
WATER PRESSURE LOSS DIAGNOSIS & REPAIR
WATER PRESSURE PROBLEM DIAGNOSIS TABLE
for procedures useful to diagnose and repair bad water pressure.
On 2014-01-25 by (mod) -
(Oct 23, 2012) LOUIS said:
THANKS FOR YOUR COMMENT...THE 2 MAYBE THREE GAL.BLUE PRESSURE TANK WAS INSTALLED W/ THIS SYS. A FEW YEARS AGO. IT HAS SEEMED TO WORK FINE.TRIED ADDING AIR.PUMP IS STILL SHORT CYCLING THOUGH. I'LL BUY A NEW
LARGER PRESSURE TANK IF U THINK THATS AN ISSUE....THE 4 ZONE 5 GPM LAWN SPRINKLER WORKED FINE UNTIL I REPLACED THE RUSTED PRESSURE SWITCH...STILL SEEKING ADVICE. THANK YOU
On 2012-10-17 by (mod) -
Eric, check the pressure switch for jamming, or that a power switch remains off or a fuse is blown.
On 2012-10-17 by (mod) - sprinkler pump short cycling
Louis,
If your sprinkler system runs at say 5 gpm and your water pressure tank holds only 2 gallons, it's no surprise that the system is short cycling. I would expect a water pressure tank of two to three times that size.
Please help us out by avoiding TYPING in ALL CAPS - it's sort of like shouting.
On 2012-10-15 by LOUIS
SPRINKLER PUMP SHORT CYCLING AFTER PRESSURE SWITCH REPLACEMENT.TRIED PUMPING AIR INTO 2 GAL TANK.STILL SHORT CYCLING.PUMP STAYS ON A FEW SECONDS MORE IF I OPEN SPICKET ON VAVLE MANIFOLD... NOT SURE WHAT TO DO NEXT?? THANKS
On 2012-08-26 by Eric
turned the pump off. drained the tank. turn the switch back on. now the water pump won't turn back on. please advise.
On 2012-07-02 by (mod) - pressure sensing orifice on the bottom of a well pump pressure control switch is quite small - easily clogged
The pressure sensing orifice on the bottom of a well pump pressure control switch is quite small - easily clogged, as is also the tube or pipe nipple used to bring water pressure to the bottom of the switch where the port is found. If you replace the switch, clean or replace the water (& pressure) conducting tube or pipe nipple too.
On 2012-07-02 by Michelle
Thank you DanJoeFriedman! It is a tank that uses an internal bladder. (I'm assuming, as it is the little blue tank that everyone seems to say has the bladder!) I will have a look at the dirt clog potential, as just a couple of months ago I had to replace my filter on the laundry spigot for that reason.
Thank you again!
Michelle
On 2012-07-02 by (mod) - 3 ways to get air into a waterlogged pressure tank
Michelle
You'll find we describe 3 ways to get air into a waterlogged pressure tank - including simply turning everything off and draining the tank to zero water.
That presumes your tank is a type that does not use an internal bladder - else you have a different problem.
But your description sounds as if there could be a problem with dirt-clogging of the sensor port on the pressure control switch - or a bad switch itself.
On 2012-07-02 by Michelle
Our pressure tank *seems* to be short cycling by what I have read in your articles, however when trying to recharge we cannot create a seal to get the air in (likely just user error) however, I'm concerned that it may not be a water logged tank.
When the water is not running, the tank sits at 40.
When the water is running, it shoots down to 20, up to 50, bursts to 60 and then drops back to 20 all within a matter of 1-2 seconds. Your opinions are appreciated!
Thanks.
On 2012-06-14 by (mod) - when a pump can't reach its cut-off pressure
Kevin when a pump can't reach its cut-off pressure there are a number of possible causes, of which some common ones include
- a well that has a poor recovery rate
- a worn or damaged pump or pump impeller
- low voltage to the pump
- a leak in well piping
On 2012-06-14 by (mod) - short cycling fixed
Thanks so much MC - we work hard to make our information unbiased and accurate - and we are very happy when a reader finds it useful. Questions are always welcome too as they help us see where more research and information are needed.
On 2012-06-14 by MC in FL
Just wanted to say thank you. I recently replaced our well pump after 8 years, and in the past couple of months, it has been ever-increasingly short-cycling to where it was shutting down the pump with the thermal overloads.
After reading your tips, I followed these, plus the instructions on our bladder tank to purge and reset the system. Now the system is acting like brand new, and takes a good while to recycle the pump.
This site saved us a call to the plumber, because this is an easy fix to do yourself - a good air compressor helps though!
On 2012-02-24 by KEVIN
i have truper 1 hp 100L/min centrifugal pump but im only getting 30 psi of pressure what do u think the problem is
On 2011-12-13 by (mod) - surging water pressure traced to short cycling pump, fixed
Max, thanks so much for the nice note and the feedback - confirming our short cycling diagnosis is very helpful.
Having struggled personally with quite a few recalcitrant water pressure tanks, pumps, wells, I know how frustrating it can be to figure out what's wrong, and even today, after more than 30 years in the field, I'm still picking up repair tips, explanations of controls and devices, and similar help from others.
So if at any time you find our information unclear or incomplete I'd be glad to hear from you. I've added this conversation to the water tank air article above in hope that it will help other readers.
Also, Max, reading over your notes I add the observation that your 220 gallon water tank is larger than common in-building residential tanks (30-50 gallons) and may be an indicator that your well itself has a limited flow rate or water delivery capacity.
When we have a well of limited flow, a solution (other than drilling a new well) is to install a very large water storage tank and allow the pump to fill the tank at a slow rate that doesn't exceed the flow rate of the well. That assures the building always has plenty of water.
A worry, however, is that the slower the flow rate of a well, the higher the risk that it eventually stops completely. If you should need to investigate the well flow rate further, take a look at
How Much Water is In the Well? or the well flow rate test procedures at "How to Test Well Water Quantity"
and see "How to Get More Water From a Well" for help in increasing the well yield or flow rate.
These and related articles are found in our ARTICLE INDEX under WELLS CISTERNS & SPRINGS
On 2011-12-12 by Max
I can't thank you enough for your website and quick response! I wanted to write you back and let you know the outcome of my little well issue.
The surging water I described appears to have been caused by what you describe as “Well pump short cycling.” After reading (more carefully) your article:
Well Pump Short Cycling: How to diagnose “Water Pump Short Cycling” and restore Air in a Building Water Tank and your response, I was hopeful that the cause was a waterlogged tank. I read your step by step instructions and it worked beautifully.
Opening up nearby hose bibs and the schrader valve helped the water drain more quickly, but it still took several hours to drain the tank.
Before I tried this, the tank was draining so slowly and gurgling, I didn’t think it was still full of water. It has been nearly a week the well is working perfectly now.
Not only did you save me some money, but more importantly, fixing it myself was good for my self esteem. Thanks again!
Max
On 2011-08-11 by Anonymous
Thanks Dan! While I was waiting for this answer, ;) I turned power off, found out there is no valve on the tank to drain it, so I flipped power back on. Watered a rose bush & it was NOT cycling on & off! So I am thinking turning power off fixed it... we will see. Thanks so much for your answer, I love this site as I am single women in need of fixes sometime! Appreciate it
On 2011-06-21 by Adam Bunday
Thanks for all the information...saved me a call to the plumber today! Great site with a ton of information.
On 2011-06-02 by (mod) -
Thanks so much for the nice comment, Linda. We are dedicated to making our information as accurate, complete, useful, and unbiased as possible: we very much welcome critique, questions, or content suggestions for our web articles.
On 2011-06-02 by linda hawwk
I like this site. It is clear, concise and descriptive. Thanks for the help with the well water pressure problems we recently experienced. If I can follow the instructions anyone can!
...
Continue reading at WATER TANK AIR, HOW TO ADD or select a topic from the closely-related articles below, or see the complete ARTICLE INDEX.
Or see WATER TANK AIR, HOW TO ADD FAQs-2 - more recent questions and answers about adjusting the air charge in a water pressure tank
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