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Fleck water softener control valve head showing remaining capacity (C) Daniel FriedmanWater Softener Diagnostic FAQs-5

Help Troublershoot a water softener

  • POST a QUESTION or COMMENT about how to diagnose water softener operating problems: how long the softener runs, how much water is in the brine tank, how much salt, how salty or soft is the household water, more.

FAQs to diagnose a water softener or water conditioner - set #5.

This article series describes procedures for diagnosing and repairing water softener or water conditioner problems including water conditioner control settings and adjustment or repair, brine tank and brine tank float cleaning and repair, and the proper amount of water softening or conditioning that is needed.

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Recent Water Softener Diagnostic Q&A #5

Water flow through a typical water softener (C) InspectApedia.com

These questions and answers were posted originally

at DIAGNOSE WATER SOFTENER PROBLEMS - home. Be sure to review the wonderfully-organized advice and procedures found in that article.

[Click to enlarge any image]

On 2016-07-25 by (mod) re: foamy water from the water softener: cause & cure

Often foamy water from a water softener is traced to a damaged distributor riser tube or inlets that mount at the top or bottom of that tube - that's the vertical tube in the center of the water softener.

Over at https://inspectapedia.com/plumbing/Water_Softener_Diagnostic_FAQs.php (using the ctrl-F browser feature to search on "foam" you'll see this more detailed advice -

Besides a defective riser tube (more often associated with resin loss from the water softener),

Sanitize the system;

Look for air leaks in the system piping;

Look for resin beads or resin loss in the system water supply

Take a look at SOFTENER CLEANING & SANITIZING

and see if that leads you to want to do anything different in the cleaning procedure.

Other sources of foamy water output from a water softener include

Most Likely: an air leak somewhere in the system tubing or piping or in the control head

A defect inside the resin tank like a clogged or cracked / damaged centerrinjector tube

A bad air check valve at the bottom of the resin tank downtube or parts lost from the check valve.

Check your water softener manual for the procedure for cleaning the injector. If someone worked on the system and left component of an internal check valve out, or work, on the system left an air leak in tubing or connections that may be the problem.

On 2016-07-25 by Craig

After I use a decent amount of water by using sprinklers as example I often end up with brine water in the supply. Foamy salt water in supply, if I brine and rinse it clears . It was not doing this before I had the system tuned up. What is the problem that needs to be fixed. Thank you

On 2016-07-21 by (mod) re: water softener is losing resin

Sounds as if your water softener is losing resin. The treatment tank or its center tube may need repair or replacement.

Or there is a sulphur or debris problem in your water supply.

Also check the cleanliness of the salt tank and sanitize that if necessary.

On 2016-07-21 by lynn

getting black water in all areas of house, what could be the cause

On 2016-07-02 by (mod) re: failed control head on a water softener

Sounds like a failed control head; start by checking out the timer.

On 2016-07-02 by braco

Hm, I couldn't find any diagnostic or fix steps for my softener malfunction. The long story short: the softener is ~10 yr old, Morton 40K gal/grains, it wouldn't recharge by-itself.

I did manual recharge for several days (had to do three sets of 3 seconds of holding the recharge now button), moved the added salt (8-10 inch deep) level around so the the floating tubing can clearly reach the bottom in ~10 inch deep water with salt;

At this point it would recharge but I don't hear any water drain out unless the manual re-charge is initiated.
It is set to level 45 for softening, but the white residue would build up on faucets if the water is left to dry.

What would be your suggestion - possible fix steps to take next?
Thank you in advance.

On 2016-06-28 by (mod) re: why nothing flows through the brine tank

The brine tank fills, then the brine flows backwards out of the brine tank through the softener to a discharge line. If nothing is flowing out of the tank then the control head or an internal valve is not working. (Just guessing as the data here is a bit thin)

On 2016-06-28 by Glenn

Sorry ,no problem with water to the brine tank when filling and float allows water to enter but it is when the brine is supposed to go from the brine tank to the resin tank . This is when I have moderate pressure in the line flowing from the head on the resin tank towards the brine tank.

On 2016-06-27 by (mod) re: why is there water pressure in the line to the brine tank during rinse cycle

Not in softeners with which I am familiar. House water pressure is what sends water into the brine tank.

On 2016-06-27 by Glenn

checked again and also removed the valve assy and checked it ,all of which appears OK . I guess my question is,why do I have the moderate pressure in the line to the brine tank when in draw/slow rinse cycle ? I would presume there would be a low pressure (vacuum) to draw up the brine .

On 2016-06-27 by (mod) re: when to check the brine tank float assembly

Check for a stuck brine tank float.

On 2016-06-27 by Glenn

When My Culligan is in the brine draw /slow rinse cycle it will not draw as there is pressure (moderate) on the line to the brine tank .

On 2016-06-21 by (mod) re: signs that the control head or timer clock has failed

Boy Typically that means the control head or its clock or time has failed.

On 2016-06-21 by Boysmiley@aol.com

My whirlpool water softener suddenly stopped recharging on its own. I now have to do it manually.

On 2016-06-16 by (mod) re: temporary bypass the water softener

TUrn off the water softener, put it in bypass, then ask for help from your service company to fix the control.

On 2016-06-16 by Anonymous

Constant discharge of water making my well pump cycle every 2 minutes

On 2016-06-07 by Abdo

At end of cycle back flow does not bring water back to the tank. Salt become dry

On 2016-05-30 by (mod) re: water tastest salty: how to diagnose the water softener as the problem

Mary
As bypassing the softener stopped the problem that's a pretty good indication of where the problem lies.

If the problem occurred without anyone having changed water softener control settings, then I suspect control failure or regen cycle failure; try cleaning and sanitizing the salt tank, be sure the brine control float in the salt tank is moving freely, then re-fill the salt tank and run a manual regen cycle.

On 2016-05-30 by Mary

water now tastes salty and has what is almost like a carbonation look (bubbles a lot when it comes out of the tap) It just started happening out of the blue. We bypassed it so, at least we could drink the water. :)

On 2016-05-27 by (mod) re: cloudy glasses in the dishwasher: check the water softener

Ray

Check your water softener output salt level - if it's too high the unit may need adjusting or service. High salt levels in water can indeed add to its corrosivity. But you should also have your water tested for


- potability

- hardness (this will tell you how to get the proper softener salt dose)

- corrosivity (this will tell you if the incoming water itself is corrosive, if so it may need a pH or other adjustment)

Though I agree that CaCl is less corrosive than NaCl, changing from NaCL to CaCl might help but it won't fix a corrosivity problem if it's in the water supply and getting the salt dose and regen frequency settings right is important regardless.

On 2016-05-27 by raywallin@yahoo.com

Sorry, I posted our old email address! I am writing with a 10 year old dishwasher with the racks rusted out, the disposal bottom rusted out, and cloudy glasses from the dishwasher. Is it the fault of the water softener, salt, etc.? What can I do?

On 2016-05-27 by Raywallin@juno.com - water softener in Loveland Texas

We have been in our home for 10 years in the Loveland area. Our home was brand new and we were told by friends of ours that we would need a water softener in Loveland.

Our dishwasher always produced cloudy, "etched" wine glasses from the start. Now the racks in my dishwasher are rusted, and the bottom of my disposal is rusted. Is this caused by the water softener? Is the salt causing the problem. Would using calcium chloride help? Thanks!

On 2016-05-23 1 by (mod) re: which plumbing drains need to be vented

Dan:

It's not the use of a drywell vs. septic vs. public sewer that define the need for drain venting. Rather the problem is the vacuum created in a drain line as waste moves through it.

Inadequate venting or total absence of venting risks slow drains and worse, odors or even methane gas explosions as dry traps can back-vent gases into the building.

While the risk of back-venting methane or sewer gas into a building through dry traps is lower when the drain goes only to a drywell, that's not the only concern.

Most drain systems will work much better if vented. Un-vented drains tend to drain poorly, slowly, with bubbling and with noise.

With all that whining done, If your water softener regeneation drain RATE is very slow (as might be the case through a small, say 3/8" flexible tube) and if the water softener regeneration backwash wastewater is the only stuff going into your drywell, you might get away with no vent.

On 2016-05-22 by Dan

My water softener works great but I just relocated the regen tube to my dry well pipe after the pump yes there are two check valves.my question is do I need a vent when draining to a drywell

On 2016-05-13 by (mod) re: set water softener salt dose by water hardness

To earlier Anon:

Review the water softner regen cycle settings and salt dose settings. Compare those to the hardness of your water; if the water softener is not set correctly that could be the problem.

On 2016-05-13 by (mod)

First check the incoming water for iron or sediment: if present you'll need a filtration or treatment system to remove those contaminants.

If your incoming water is not the red rust source, review this article series for or search InspectApedia for SANITIZE the WATER SOFTENER to remove rust-loving bacteria;

On 2016-05-12 by Anonymous

My softner is about 5 yrs old and the last 6 months it has been turning my family's hair rust orange what is not working anymore help please

On 2016-05-12 by Anonymous

My water bill last quarter was 6000 gallons more then it usually is. I haven't been able to find any leaks anywhere. My softener seems to be recharging every other night. Could there be the problem with the softener that would cause it to recharge more often?

On 2016-05-11 by (mod) - fixing odors from the water softener

Than

Provided the odor is NOT in the incoming water source, then check the water softener ARTICLE INDEX found near the end of this page and find the article on how to SANITIZE a WATER SOFTENER or search InspectApedia for those terms. Once your unit has been fully cleaned and sanitized the odor will be solved.

On 2016-05-11 by Than Htay

In my softer get out bad smell from water.then what can i do in that moment ?I want to suggestions.Example-1.cause 2.effect and 3.solutions

Reader Question: corroded drains & faucets - does this mean a water softener problem?

Our drains and faucets are starting to corrode and rust. we have always used a water softener and maintained it. Is this an indication that there is a problem with our softener? - Sharon Osterby 9/16/12

Reply:

Sharon I'm not sure the problem is with your water softener or with the chemistry of your water. If the softener is not working you might see white mineral build-up at faucet strainers and openings; If the water chemistry is aggressive that might be a factor in plumbing corrosion.

Start by testing your softened water to see if it is effectively treated, and if not, clean, adjust, repair the water softener first.

If you suspect a problem with water chemistry (say the softener is working normally and the water at the tap is not hard) then I suggest asking a water treatment company to test your water.

Such vendors often will test your water at no charge (they want to sell you equipment) or if you're doubtful, pick up a sterile bottle from your local water test lab and ask their recommendations for what screening tests to perform.

Question: water softener not working - diagnose the trouble?

(Feb 19, 2014) Bruce said:

My softener stopped softening the water 2 months ago. The unit is about 18 years old. I replaced the resin, cleaned the valve head, poured 3 gallons not water into the brine tank with iron out and manually regenerated many times.

The water gets soft for a few days but then isn't. It's using salt normally, the valve timer is working but still won't keep the water soft. The only thing I haven't done is disassemble and clean the brine tank. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Reply:

Bruce,

Check the float assembly to assure it's not stuck and check the salt dose setting against the measured hardness of the incoming water supply;

Reader follow-up:

Thanks Dan, the float assembly looked fine. I soaked the basket in Ironout just in case and blew it out, seems clear. The salt setting was at 3 lbs which seems rather low so I bumped it up to 13 lbs. The last water test was pH 5.8 / Iron 3.0ppm / Hardness 20 grains per gallon. What setting do you recommend for that iron level? Again, your help is really appreciated.

Reply:

See these

Recommended Articles

The separate article WATER SOFTENER ADJUSTMENT & CONTROLS discusses salt dose and regen cycle settings - which you can look at but you'll want to set your particular softner salt dose and regen cycle frequency per the instructions for your particular brand and model to get it just right.

I don't know about softener setting for iron level - which is a secondary feature to softener settings for hardness; I'd be glad to do some research but let's start with the instructions for your unit. What is the brand and model? (And you have the instructions for it?}

Reader follow-up:

(Feb 20, 2014) Bruce said:

How much water should be in the brine tank after a full regeneration? I'm starting to wonder if the air check ball is stuck or for some reason, the correct amount of brine water is not being created.

Reply:

Indeed there are usually a few inches in the bottom of the brine tank, but in normal conditions you won't see it: the brine solution will be covered by salt.

Two checks to make: check for a stuck brine tank float; check for salt bridging or crusting

- check that the float assembly travels freely and is not stuck - most brine tanks control water entry and exit quantity by a float operated switch.

- poke at the salt in the tank; salt can form a crust that makes it look as if there's plenty of salt in the tank while actually there may be nothing but hollow space below the crust.

Reader follow-up:

There is about 3-4" of water but the float sits about 5-6" above the water line while in service mode. Does the water go up that high during regeneration?

Doesn't seem like it does at all. Further to that, I opened the air check where the brine tank hose attached expecting to find a ball but there wasn't one. I understand that the all floats when water is in there and close up the line when the brine water runs out. But there was no ball.

Also, my air check looks different than the ones I see pictured, it's flatter than taller. I can send a pic if that's possible. Thanks again, you are very helpful, I appreciate it,

Reply:

Bruce, I'm not sure, not even knowing what softener you have, but generally the float controls the quantity of water that enters the brine tank - as you probably see, water enters, causes the float to rise until it shuts off the incoming water; time is given to dissolve salt; then salty water is pumped back out of the brine tank and through the softener to do the regen.

If you want to experiment, with no salt in the tank, so you can see what's going on, use the softener controls to request an extra or manual regen cycle. Watch the brine tank. You should see water enter, the float rise, the float stops rising and presses against a mechanical switch that stops water entry. (The float level is adjustable on many softeners and should be set per the manual).

As the cycle continues you should see the salty water pumped back out of the unit and the water level drop.

Even before that observation it should be possible to GENTLY lift the float rod and let it drop back into position. The float should move freely up and down. Sometimes floats get stuck as salt cakes or falls into the tube protecting the float assembly.

Reader follow-up:

(Feb 21, 2014) Bruce said:

Thanks, I understand exactly what you wrote. The valve is an Autotrol 255/440 from 1996. Right now, I've the water soft but not sure how long it will last. It's soft because 2 days ago I add 3 gal hot water to the brine tank and did a manual regen. I'm wondering if enough water is getting into the brine tank. Is the float valve itself subject to failure commonly?

The float moved the valve freely up and down but that doesn't mean the valve is opening fully, right?

Maybe I should watch a full cycle to see if the water rises during the brine creation cycle. That air check w/o a ball also is bothering me since everything I read on the 255 says there should be a plastic ball in there.

Also, I read that air leaks could impact brine flow.

Moderator said:

Bruce, see WATER SOFTENER BRINE TANK FLOAT LEVEL ADJUSTMENT

 


...

Continue reading  at DIAGNOSE WATER SOFTENER PROBLEMS - topic home, where you'll find a helpful water conditioner troubleshooting table, or select a topic from the closely-related articles below, or see the complete ARTICLE INDEX.

Or see WATER SOFTENER DIAGNOSTIC FAQs-6 - more-recent Q&A about fixing a water softener.

Or see these

Water Softener Diagnosis & Repair Articles

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WATER SOFTENER DIAGNOSTIC FAQs-5 at InspectApedia.com - online encyclopedia of building & environmental inspection, testing, diagnosis, repair, & problem prevention advice.


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INDEX to RELATED ARTICLES: ARTICLE INDEX to WATER TREATMENT SYSTEMS

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