Water softener salt dose settings:
This article explains why a water softener or water conditioner consumes salt and describes water softener setting adjustments of the salt dose or quantity to be used during a water softener regeneration cycle.
This article series describes procedures for diagnosing and repairing water softener or water conditioner problems including water conditioner control settings and adjustment or repair, brine tank and brine tank float cleaning and repair, and the proper amount of water softening or conditioning that is needed.
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Depending on the water softener type and model, there may be several settings and adjustments to be made to control salt dose and regeneration cycle frequency.
One method for adjusting the salt dose or the amount of salt used during a water conditioner backwash/regeneration cycle [on some water softener models] involves adjusting the float level inside the brine tank.
The article provides both a table and a calculation method to determine how much salt is needed for a given level of water hardness. This article also explains how to repair or adjust the brine tank float - a device that determines the quantity of salty brine to be produced for use during water softener regeneration.
On many water softeners (Such as Culligan 1989 vintage water conditioner systems) there is a brine refill flow control valve inside the salt storage tank that needs to be changed or cleaned for proper operation.
Shown at left: the brine refill control and the refill flow restrictor found in the salt tank for a Culligan System 19 or System 23 water conditioner.
The lever at right in the figure connects to the vertical rise rod that in turn connects to the brine tank float (discussed below).
As we describe at WATER SOFTENER TROUBLESHOOTING FAQs-3, a malfunctioning brine level float control (or other maladjustments) can cause abnormally high water level in the brine tank.
Other possible causes for too much water in the brine tank are listed
Just below we give the details of setting the brine level control float and valve.
I have read the excellent description of the required adjustments of a water softener. However, there was one adjustment I think that requires explanation that was not mentioned, is the setting of the brine tank float.
For example, what is the connection between the amount of salt consumed, if any, and the height setting of the float?
It would be helpful for me to know that answer. Thank you again for your article on this subject. - M.P.
Some, not all, water softeners do indeed require that the brine tank float level be adjusted in order to provide the correct salt dose needed for the building served by the water softener.
Adjusting the float height in the salt tank in turn determines the volume of water injected into the tank and thus the "salt dose" used during a water softener backwash cycle.
In turn, salt dose needed (or volume of salty water to be run back through the water softener during a regeneration cycle) depends on these variables:
Other water softener models use different controls to manage for these same variables.
You will need to know in addition to the above information,
[Click to enlarge any image or table]
A 1989 Culligan water softener installation manual describes the Brine Valve "A" dimension: the distance from the top of the filter screen to the bottom of the float.
One sets the "A" dimension (in inches) based on the desired salt dosage in pounds and the brine tank size - this will be manufacturer dependent.
At left we are showing an example chart (for the Culligan System 19 or System 23 water softeners).
[Click to enlarge any image or table]
Example: for a System 19 Culligan water conditioner brine tank, the "A" dimension (distance filter screen to the bottom of the float) would be set to 14 1/2 inches if you needed an 11-pound salt dosage.
Note: this setting determines the salt dose amount (how much salt will be used, not the salt dosage frequency (how often the dose should be applied).
The salt dosage frequency is set separately on the clock control for the water softener as we discuss above.
Watch out: the requirement to set the height of the float in a salt tank for a water softener, as well as the float height if setting is indeed required, is dependent on the variables listed above including your water softener brand and model. Be sure to consult the installation manual for your own water softener.
You could, in theory, adjust the height of the float and thus the salt dose on a water softener empirically by measuring the hardness of water provided by the system after a backwash cycle and perhaps daily for several days to see if you need to change the backwash cycle frequency or salt dose size - but it's best if you can find and follow the manufacturer's instructions.
Watch out: we have also found water softener brine tank floats that were "stuck" in their cylinder (the cylinder is intended to let the float rise and fall with water level without being obstructed by salt in the media tank) - usually we have been able to free the float by pulling the vertical rod up and down a few times.
Sometimes homeowners have accidentally spilled salt into the cylinder, especially if its top cover has been lost - in that case the salt crystals can obstruct the float.
Thanks to reader M.P. for discussing the requirement to adjust the float level in water softener brine tanks.
To actually set the float height or the "A" Dimension shown in the illustration and table above, you will find a threaded rod or sliding clip that moves the stop point to which the float can slide or rise freely as the level of brine in the brine tank rises. When the rising float reaches the stop it will lift the rod to close the brine water intake valve, thus preventing a brine tank overflow and on some older water softeners, controlling the amount of brine produced.
On nearly all modern water softeners you don't need to adjust the brine tank float. Instead, the programming of the control for water hardness and salt dose in essence tells the control head how much water to send into the brine tank and thus how much brine is to be produced, That amount varies significantly from about 1/4 of a brine tank of water to half or a bit more.
...
Below you will find questions and answers previously posted on this page at its page bottom reader comment box.
On 2020-06-07 - by (mod) - why doesn't water ENTER the Brine Tank?
Jamie:
That valve at the BOTTOM of the float valve assembly tube is usually an "air check" valve that is designed to STOP pumping out of the brine tank once the system encounters air - thus liquid should continue to drop but once there is no liquid then the valve closes.
If the brine tank already has the required dose of water then water will not enter the brine tank until after the softener has pumped brine OUT of the brine tank during the appropriate stage of the regen cycle.
Your Whirlpool WHES softener has just 4 simple steps and a 5-step test procedure that I excerpt and adapt from the manual, listing what to check if brine doesn't enter or doesn't leave the brine tank reservoir, or the softener doesn't drain properly.
For your Whirlpool WHES softener the company recommends trying a manual regeneration test by the following:
The usual causes of failure of brine to be pumped IN or OUT of the brine tank when it should are listed in more detail at:
To identify these parts on your specific water softener we'll need to consult the parts explosion or drawings in the manual for your water softener brand and model.
You will also want to look at
Regarding your original statement:
When I manually regenerate softener (whirlpool whe33) the fill mode begins and water stops filling after only 2 second?.
I pulled out the float valve from brine well and push regenerate again so I can see if water comes out. Water does begin to come out but only for a couple of seconds?
That says to me that even if the brine tank float valve was not working properly, it's not the problem since even with the float valve removed entirely, at the start of a regen cycle water would not enter the brine tank.
---
1. You want to review the exact softener regeneration cycle steps (as they vary a bit ) for your specific brand and model water softener.
If you don't have the manual check out the live link for WATER CONDITIONER / SOFTENER MANUALS - download the manual for your softener
given at the More Reading links at the end of this article
2. The very first step in regen may NOT be one of pumping water INTO the brine tank or salt tank. That's because most water softeners send water into the brine tank as one of the last steps in the regeneration cycle. That way water has time to dissolve salt to produce brine to be ready for the next regen cycle.
Instead the first steps are to put the softener in bypass mode and then begin sending rinse water through the softener from the building water supply OR often as a second step to begin by pumping brine (salty water) OUT of the salt tank or brine tank and through the softener's resin tank so as to re-charge the resin.
3. Watch the brine tank and hoses during regen and watch the softener's discharge hose or tube.
You should see water being pumped out of the softener system through its discharge tube and onwards to a building drain.
4. IF your brine tank has visible liquid in the tank THEN at some point later, during the regen cycle you should see the brine level dropping in the tank. Whether or not you can see brine depends on 2 variables
- the level of salt in the salt tank - if the tank is nearly full of salt tablets or crystals then the level of brine may be below that salt top and you can't see it
- the volume of brine needed - which depends on the "salt dose" setting on the softener. A higher salt dose means more brine will be dissolved and used during regen so the level of brine in the salt tank will be higher
On 2020-06-04 by jamie - Whirlpool WHES33 water not entering brine tank
Thanks, I'm sure I read these articles already but will take a look again. Wondering if you could answer the questions that I had in my 2 comment areas marked 2 days ago? I would then be able to get those questions cleared from my mind lol and move on.
I have a Whirlpool WHES33 by the way, 10 yrs old. I'm going to raise the float level when I get home from work and see if water will fill for more that 2 sec. Between work and sleep (65 yr F) I haven't had any motivation to go downstairs to fiddle with it.
I'll let you know after I raise float level what takes place. But in meantime if you could answer my questions below I would appreciate it. Thanks for taking the time to reply to me :)
On 2020-06-02 - by (mod) -
Jamie:
Have you had a chance to check out these two diagnostic articles:
BRINE TANK WATER TOO LOW
BRINE TANK DIAGNOSIS & REPAIR
some of the "too much water" causes in the second article can actually end up preventing water entry into the tank as well, such as unanticipated high or low building water pressure or a defective o-ring or seal in the control head.
If you have the patience to check out those lists then perhaps we can proceed from there.
On 2020-06-02 by jamie
Going off topic a little, I have seen posts here that say if I unplug the softener during the brine mode that it will continue to remove water from the tank. When I have done this water is going down the drain but even after being unplugged for 24 hrs the same amt of water is in the tank?
- trying to think things over last night, if my float is set to low (it's on level 3) and is level w/water in the brine well, will that prevent water from filling?
Is the rod that is connected to the float suppose to move up and down freely at all times?
If I take the brine hose off from top of softener should I be able to freely blow air through it and hear bubbles come out from the end that is in the brine well?
Side note: I hear the water going down the drain hose during the brine mode but the level in my tank does not recede - always at level 3
On 2020-06-01 - by (mod) - Whirlpool WHE33 Softener stops filling the brine tank after just 2 seconds; inspect the air-check valve.
2 seconds certainly isn't going to be a successful water softener regeneration cycle, Jamie. If you can clean and free up the float control valve that might get things going. Else I'd replace the assembly.
There are of course a number of reasons that a softener may fail to draw brine from the tank. We list them in this article series and there's usually a list of those causes for your specific softener in its manual.
Also be sure that you're watching for brine-tank refill at the proper step in the softener regeneration cycle.
Regarding:
But as soon as I replace the plastic ball, the ball gets sucked under water and restricts flow out of the brine tank. The flow into the tank is no problem.
You are probably describing the air-check valve that should stop the pumping operation before air can be drawn out of the brine tank after brine has been exhausted or nearly-exhausted.
I can't say from your procedure if that air check-valve is working properly or not.
On 2020-06-01 by JAMIE
When checking why we weren't getting soft water this is what I noticed and not sure if it's suppose to be that way.
When I manually regenerate softener (whirlpool whe33) the fill mode begins and water stops filling after only 2 second?.
I pulled out the float valve from brine well and push regenerate again so I can see if water comes out. Water does begin to come out but only for a couple of seconds? I do notice the float valve rod does not move up and down freely, Upon pulling it out of brine well I had to pull really hard to force it to open up.
After putting it back in the brine well it again sticks shut, even when softener is NOT in regeneration mode.
Are there times when this float valve is not suppose to move up and down freely?
Done all the other checks, venturi, valves O-Rings etc and it seems the float rod always moved up and down freely before but I can't remember.
But if I suck on the tube with my mouth without out the ball, no restriction of flow.
But as soon as I replace the plastic ball, the ball gets sucked under water and restricts flow out of the brine tank. The flow into the tank is no problem.
On 2020-05-30 - by (mod) -
Tom
That's an interesting Theory, thank you for the question.
But no I don't think that these those concentration in the brine tank would make the float check valve work properly or improperly.
More likely there's a blockage in the control head or an air leak or blockage in the tubing.
The valve at the BOTTOM of the float valve assembly is usually an air check intended to STOP drawing out of the brine tank once it's liquid has been pumped out.
On 2020-05-30 by Tom K - Culligan Premier model 9500 brine not getting sucked out of the brine tank
I have Culligan Premier model 9500. Brine water not getting sucked out of brine tank during regeneration.
Brine tube clear.
Cleaned and checked the float valve in the brine well. Able to blow air through the tube but when negative pressure applied even under considerable amount of water in the tank (plain water as I had just finished cleaning the tank), the plastic ball that is floating gets sucked under and plugs and stops water from being sucked out.
Is this because there is no salt in water and once the salt is present, would the plastic ball remain floating even with some negative pressure and allow brine water to be sucked out?
On 2020-04-04 - by (mod) - Cleaning my Culligan out door metallist series 30 brine tank and float,
Craig
Here is the
CULLIGAN OUTDOOR MEDALIST WATER CONDITIONER MANUAL [PDF] that includes complete parts explosions - you'll be able to see the brine tank details including the float mechanism assembly
I would have to see the exact parts on your model, but I think
the plastic ball is a float valve inside the bottom air check assembly that normally floats freely inside the air check valve but drops down to stop brine flow when the brine has been exhausted
On 2020-04-04 by Craig
Cleaning my Culligan out door medallist series 30 brine tank and float, there is a plastic ball in lower float mechanism, where does it go
On 2020-02-22 - by (mod) -
Jamie
If you watch the softener system during all of its cycles and see that water is being discharged during the brine regen cycle then brine was drawn from the salt/brine tank.
IF brine isn't being drawn, sent through the resin tank, then discharged, and if we think the lines connecting brine tank to control head are intact (no air leaks, no crimps) then the problem could of course be in the control head.
Before you try replacing anything, watch the brine level during all of the stages of the Regeneration cycle. The manual lists the steps for your specific model.
It's normal for liquid level to drop during one of the phases when brine is pumped out of the brine reservoir and onwards through the resin tank but it's also normal for the liquid level to increase again at the end of the cycle when the brine tank water charge is replenished. [Some softeners don't send water in to make brine until the START of a regen cycle.]
On 2020-02-22 by jamie
Had Culligan tech here to determine why water in brine tank would not go down in my Kenmore softener - he took everything apart and could not figure it out. no clogs, venturi fine etc etc. Now I have to invest in a new Culligan softener.
I guess I'm not understanding why water will backwash and rinse from my resin tank into the drain hose perfectly fine why the brine level in the tank won't suck out as well.
I guess the brine is not being drawn into the resin tank, is that why?
I just don't get it, nothing is clogged or kinked. I watched the tech the whole time check everything out and he's baffled as well. Any suggestions
On 2020-02-22 - by (mod) - Culligan tech here to determine why water in brine tank would not go down
Jamie
If you watch the softener system during all of its cycles and see that water is being discharged during the brine regen cycle then brine was drawn from the salt/brine tank. IF brine isn't being drawn, sent through the resin tank, then discharged, and if we think the lines connecting brine tank to control head are intact (no air leaks, no crimps) then the problem could of course be in the control head.
Before you try replacing anything, watch the brine level during all of the stages of the Regeneration cycle.
It's normal for liquid level to drop during one of the phases when brine is pumped through the resin tank but it's also normal for the liquid level to increase again at the end of the cycle when the brine tank water charge is replenished.
On 2020-02-22 by jamie
Had Culligan tech here to determine why water in brine tank would not go down in my Kenmore softener - he took everything apart and could not figure it out. no clogs, venturi fine etc etc. Now I have to invest in a new Culligan softener.
I guess I'm not understanding why water will backwash and rinse from my resin tank into the drain hose perfectly fine why the brine level in the tank won't suck out as well. I guess the brine is not being drawn into the resin tank, is that why?
I just don't get it, nothing is clogged or kinked. I watched the tech the whole time check everything out and he's baffled as well. Any suggestions
On 2020-01-21 - by (mod) -
Chris it's a function of the salt dose setting, so there isn't one right answer. At low salt dose settings and a tank with half or more filling of salt or salt pellets, you might see no water at all.
But for example on our water softener here in central Mexico where the salt dose per regen cycle is 15 lbs, with the tank half full of salt pellets I see about 6" of water above the salt.
That measure will of course vary also by softener design and dose setting and brine tank dimensions.
On 2020-01-20 by Chris
How much water should there be in the tank I find it over the salt but seems low
On 2019-12-22 by Anonymous
Do the water softener work with the timer?
On 2019-07-12 by (mod) - does water above salt in the brine tank mean something is wrong?
Mike
Thank for asking a key question: does water above salt in the brine tank mean something is wrong? I was at one time confused about that condition myself.
It can be perfectly normal for water to be above the salt level in the brine tank when
1 the level of salt in the tank is low
2 the settings for the water softener in water hardness and resin tank size (volume) require a large volume of brine to be used during the regeneration cycle
It's common for a softener to pump water into the brine tank at the end of a regen cycle in order for the water to have plenty of time to dissolve salt to be ready for the next regen cycle. Consider that if the softener design waited until a regen cycle were due before pumping water into the brine tank immediately before brine was needed then the water pumped out of the salt tank and back through the resin tank would not have dissolved much salt.
On 2019-07-11 by Mike
After regeneration cycle , the water level is usually above the salt level, why
On 2019-03-03 - by (mod) -
Check that the tube between softener control and brine tank is intact and not kinked;
On 2019-03-0 by David
I have cleaned the valve an small filter where water passes through, but water comes or flows at a what appears to be a very slow rate
What is suspected to be my next step to look at
Float assembly an check valve in brine tank seems to be OK
On 2018-12-21 by Steve
How to adjust float,now seem the float is stiff,does not slid up and down freely
On 2019-07-31 by (mod) - so how do you actually ADJUST the brine tank float?
Mr. Petersen
I was sorry to read your [rather harsh] note, particularly since we've worked hard to provide extensive information that's accurate and without conflict of interest. Nevertheless there is no end to the amount of information that can be collected on these topics, including water softeners, so your question helps us see where more is needed.
I understand how frustrating it can be to have trouble finding information you need.
The brine tank float mechanism varies among manufacturers but most of them have a threaded rod or sliding arm or clip that will move the float stop point as brine in the tank rises. Adjusting the rod or stop so that the float is higher allows more brine into the tank.
However on nearly all modern water softeners you don't need to adjust the brine tank float. Instead, the programming of the control for water hardness and salt dose in essence tells the control head how much water to send into the brine tank and thus how much brine is to be produced, That amount varies significantly from about 1/4 of a brine tank of water to half or a bit more.
On 2019-07-31 by BPetersen
Thanks for not answering any questions! How to adjust the float, not one time did you actually explain how. Refer to operation manual ,duh are you serious that the first thing a customer does. Waterboss customer service is a total joke. 4 days old brine tank too full no explanation to fix other than, must not be working properly!! Really do you think?
On 2019-07-12 by (mod) - does water above salt in the brine tank mean something is wrong?
Mike
Thank for asking a key question: does water above salt in the brine tank mean something is wrong? I was confused about that condition myself.
It can be perfectly normal for water to be above the salt level in the brine tank when
1 the level of salt in the tank is low
2 the settings for the water softener in water hardness and resin tank size (volume) require a large volume of brine to be used during the regeneration cycle
It's common for a softener to pump water into the brine tank at the end of a regen cycle in order for the water to have plenty of time to dissolve salt to be ready for the next regen cycle. Consider that if the softener design waited until a regen cycle were due before pumping water into the brine tank immediately before brine was needed then the water pumped out of the salt tank and back through the resin tank would not have dissolved much salt.
On 2019-07-11 by Mike
After regeneration cycle , the water level is usually above the salt level, why
On 2019-03-03 by (mod) -
Check that the tube between softener control and brine tank is intact and not kinked;
On 2019-03-03 by David
I have cleaned the valve an small filter where water passes through, but water comes or flows at a what appears to be a very slow rate
What is suspected to be my next step to look at
Float assembly an check valve in brine tank seems to be OK
On 2018-12-21 by Steve
How to adjust float,now seem the float is stiff,does not slid up and down freely
(Feb 11, 2013) Sarg s. said:
The city recently came in and changed our water reader and once they did our water consumption went from 10,500 gallons to 55,500 gallons of water in a 28 day cycle. The only thing running when we were notified was the water softene
BUT I do not know for sure if it was in its cycle for the day or if it was the problem. The thing is the city just replaced their head in our basement a day before we started wasting water. WHat gives, if anything? Is this normal or was it just our luck? Any ideas would be great. Thanks
(Feb 15, 2013) Shannon - in New Castle said:
I'm new to having a water softener.. I don't know how to use this thing, don't know how to adjust it, and can't get it to cycle. How often should it cycle for 2 people living in the house? There are NO stickers or labels on it anywhere to tell me what make/model/mnfctr it is either. I'm pretty sure the dern thing hasn't run in over a week now, the water is starting to smell really strong... HALP!
(Feb 8, 2014) kawika said:
Similar to the question "discolored water after water softener regen cycle". I cleaned the brine tank but I still get discolored water afar regeneration. We have only noticed the discoloration in the 2nd bath toilet and tub, nowhere else. it clears up after 3 flushes.
Kawika, I'm just guessing, but it seems to me that if water looks different colors at different fixtures in the building I'd think the root source is not the softner (that all water passes through) but perhaps the piping or some other contaminant, or iron, or debris source.
If you see it mostly at a toilet it could be worth cleaning debris out of the toilet tank too.
Reader says:
he discoloration is only present immediately after a regeneration cycle. Why only in the toilet/tub is unknown. If it were the piping or other source it should be present at all times.
Reply:
K
I agree with your reasoning, more or less; sometimes a fixture that runs water faster (like a tub) will stir up and show debris that slower running fixtures don't. A toilet would offer the opposite explanation: debris often accumulates in the toilet tank - in part because the relatively slow fill rate doesn't stir it up enough to flush out when the toilet is flushed.
Start (because it's easy) by taking a look in the toilet tank; look for deposits on the tank walls or crud on the tank bottom; that may point to a water supply debris problem; if there are yellow stains but no deposits more often that points to iron in the water;
With that simple look out of the way and assuming we want to pursue the water softener, I'd check the softner brine tank - in these articles we describe cleaning and disinfecting the brine tank. It's tempting to also run a disinfectant cycle through the water softner itself but I would not do that without knowing the brand and model and then checking the manufacturer's cleaning instructions.
Summarizing: try:
1. checking and cleaning the brine tank
2. running the softener through an extra regen cycle
Reader says:
Toilet tank is clean. Cleaned brine tank, manually ran two regenerations…next scheduled regeneration had no water discoloration…latest regeneration (Today) had the discoloration back in toilet (cleared after 4 flushes).
Reply:
K
are we certain that the incoming water from the source is not the origin of the discoloration you're seeing? Have you tested that water - ahead of any treatment equipment?
(Feb 16, 2014) stanley costello said:
i get a light powder like residue on my dishes after a dishwashing cycle
Stanley,
I've seen this deposit in more than one circumstance: using too much dishwasher detergent, very hard water supply, and on occasion, debris that needs to be cleaned from the dishwasher bottom.
(June 7, 2014) Ann said:
Just set up new digital water softener. finished settings and run regeneration cycle. It carried out regeneration adn then started cycle all over again ? what is wrong pleaase - what should I do?
(June 9, 2014) David Williams said:
have well water system. had a bad algae bloom. water co. said softener had to be replaced. could it have been cleaned, repaired instead?
David
I'm unclear why a dirty water softener would need replacement; someone is giving expensive advice that's safe for them and costly for you. Instead I would follow the water softener cleaning and disinfection procedure in your water softener's instruction manual or see our water softener cleaning procedure article at
inspectapedia.com/plumbing/Water_Softener_Cleaning.php
(June 29, 2014) Dave said:
I cleaned my water softner tank and now I can't get the prime back. Please help!
Dave,
If you mean your well pump has lost prime just search inspectApedia for "LOST WELL PRIME" or "HOW TO PRIME THE PUMP" to see procedural details.
If you mean the water softener is not filling the brine tank you will want to check for disconnected tubing, a clogged check valve, or a clogged or improperly set (e.g. on bypass) control valve.
...
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