FAQs to diagnose a water softener or water conditioner - set #6.

This article series describes procedures for diagnosing and repairing water softener or water conditioner problems including water conditioner control settings and adjustment or repair, brine tank and brine tank float cleaning and repair, and the proper amount of water softening or conditioning that is needed.

Recent Water Softener Diagnostic Q&A #6

Questions & answers about repairing a water conditioner or water softener, posted originally at DIAGNOSE WATER SOFTENER PROBLEMS - home.

Please be sure to review that article as it is an organised approach to water softener troubleshooting.

[Click to enlarge any image]

On 2016-07-14 by (mod) - fishy water smell, too much bleach, find a water softener service company

John,

There should be water softener service companies in your area who'd love to inspect, sanitize, repair the unit; I'd consider that approach as faster and perhaps not much different in ending cost.

I'm not sure about the bleach question. Extreme concentrations might affect a gasket or resin but usually I think that a fish smell means there's a sanitizing need.

Watch out: a water odor coming only from the hot water tank is not likely to be a water softener problem but rather a bacterial or other contaminant in the water heater.

See ODORS IN WATER

Or go directly to WATER HEATER CAUSES of WATER ODORS

See also SULPHUR & SEWER GAS SMELL SOURCES - home

On 2016-07-12 by John

Also the fishy smell of the water seems to only be the hot water, could this be a reaction in heater to the bleach i put in the salt tank when i cleaned it? I accidentlly did go a little heavy with the bleach

I will check into getting into the resin tank, im not the best handyman.

Also from the softner it goes to another tank for the sulfur, looks almost like the fleck softner. Flow Guard sulfur filter. I dont have any manuals as I just bought the house and previous owners didnt leave them

On 2016-07-12 by (mod) - how to get rid of odors traced to the water softener

John

Take a look at SOFTENER CLEANING & SANITIZING to be sure that you followed the complete procedure -

and see if that leads you to want to do anything different in the cleaning procedure from what you did.

Other sources of foamy water output from a water softener include

- a defect inside the resin tank including a clogged or damaged center tube

- a bad air check valve at the bottom of the resin tank downtube.

- Most Likely: an air leak somewhere in the system tubing or piping or in the control head

Check your water softener manual for the procedure for cleaning the injector. If someone worked on the system and left component of an internal check valve out, or work, on the system left an air leak in tubing or connections that may be the problem.

So check first for an air leak - check any connections you can find including between salt brine tank and softener. Do keep me posted; I'll also do some further research through the manuals.

On 2016-07-11 by John

I did a brine clean and sanitize. I used about a quart of bleech in brine talk after now water has a weird fish smell in house. Any ideas? It still has the foamy water after regen as well. Im not sure where to look for air leaks.

On 2017-09-16 by (mod) - Pentair Autotrol Logix™ Controller not opening brine valve

Jason,

I think there are two possible repair directions:

1. If the control is NOT itself faulty (which means replacing the control head or at least parts of it), then one of the troubleshooting suggestions from Pentair/Logix for "Control will not draw brine" should fix the trouble you describe:

1. water pressure too low (you need at least 20 psi)

2. restricted drain line ( a crimp in the drain tube)

3. plugged injector (the injector and screen can be removed and cleaned)

4. defective injector (the part will have to be replaced)

5. Air check valve closes prematurely on 255 valve or brine pickup tube (Put control momentarily into brine/slow rinse, C2. Replace or repair air check if needed. )

or

2. The valve or the control head actuator that moves the valve is itself actually damaged and needs replacement.

I would look through the first series of repair suggestions before considering replacing the head (expensive) or taking it further apart (risky).

The Logix 760 is typically on a Pentair water softener. If that's your case, you would next call Pentair's / Autotrol's customer support for advice. Call: 800.279.9404

Contact: Pentair, filtration services, 5730 North Glen Park Road, Milwaukee, WI 53209 Tel: 262.238.4400 Website: WWW.PENTAIRAQUA.COM CUSTOMER CARE: 800.279.9404 Email: tech-support@pentair.com

Keep me posted as what you learn will help other readers. Meanwhile I'll be sure we've got Pentair/Autotrol/Logix controller manuals online as free PDF downloads

at WATER CONDITIONER / SOFTENER MANUALS

On 2017-09-16 by Jason

I have a logix 760 controller and when it's time for regeneration the cam opens the valve to draw brine but then rotates slightly past and the valve closes therefor only drawing brine for a couple of seconds.

If I open the valve with a screwdriver it draws brine just fine.

The cam always rotates a little to much. The other functions seem to work fine. Any help is appreciated.

Jason.

On 2017-09-14 by Lee Smith trange gummy coating\film in my hair.

We have a Culligan softner system. Lately after I shampoo my hair, when it begins to dry I feel a strange gummy coating\film in my hair.

At first I thought I just didn't rinse well enough but that definitely is not the problem. Have you ever heard of this ?? Husband thinks I'm crazy #@%&*

On 2017-08-12 by (mod) - why does brine water continue to flow out of discharge valve after recharge stops

The water softener will pump water into the brine tank, dissolve salt, pump salty water back out and through the water softener to re-charge the sodium or salt in the softener resin. During that backwash it's proper for brine and backwash to discharge out of the backwash softener drain tube.

When the backwash cycle (or "regen" cycle) is finished there might be a little dripping as water finishes exiting the drain tube, then it should stop.

If not, I suspect a stuck control or valve - you may need to put the softener in bypass mode and then call for repair.

On 2017-08-12 by chucker - Water softener Kenmore 625.388450

Water softener Kenmore 625.388450, inst. 8-31--02, may be similar to 625.388400. why does brine water continue to flow out of discharge valve after recharge stops

On 2017-07-06 by (mod) - orange color coming out in my water

No. I think there may be a problem with rust or contamination in your water heater

On 2017-07-03 by terry

i have a water softner whf 33 salt set on 60 the cold water running out of the faultset is clear but turn the hot on only i have like orange color coming out u think my salt setting is to high lower it down some

On 2017-06-29 by Clay

What would make water constantly come out the over flow on the water conditioning unit..

On 2017-06-15 by Ghoster

I have a plumsoft non electric ultra water softener which was taken off line for a week for kitchen work.. it was working fine.

When it has been put back on line it will not take any salt. It will regenerate but is not taking salt. The flow and return are on and the salt is ok. The kitchen installer did install the flow and return wrongly to begin with. Any suggestions please.

On 2017-06-14 by Stuart

On your FAQ can you add " salt level not dropping except with a forced regeneration" and can you answer that please.

On 2017-06-06 21:47:06.676268 by (mod) -

Sounds as if the control is stuck in regen mode, perhaps combined with a stuck brine tank float or a crimped brine tube so that the regen is attempting but never successful.

On 2017-06-06 by Bill

I cleaned my brine tank and did a manual regeneration when I refilled the tank with salt.

Since then I have been checking the tank, can't see that any salt has been used and it is regenerating everyday. It was initially set to regenerate after using 2300 gal of water

On 2017-05-27 by (mod) re: decode water softener error code 4004

Patti I can only guess because we don't know the brand and model of your water softener. The meaning of error codes is brand and model dependent

**IF** your water softener is a CareSoft Pro model, then an error code of 4004 means there's a problem with the control board or circuit board in the control head of the softener.

The problem could be a damaged board (needs replacement) or it could be that the circuit board is loose in its supporting bracket and not properly aligned and thus not properly connected.

On 2017-05-26 by Patti

Softener reads Error thsn flashes 4004

On 2017-05-15 by (mod) re: effects of failing to put salt into the water softener's brine tank

Anon:

I don't think that leaving a softener with no salt would damage it directly, though prolonged failure to treat hard water can cause scaling and trouble in most plumbing fixtures and equipment, especially hot water handling equipment.

I SPECULATE also that failure to clean out a water softener brine tank over 20 years can put enough sludge crud in the brine tank that we might then foul up the softener and its controls. (Yeah, I know, I know, nobody cleans their brine tank until they think there's a problem. )

On 2017-05-15 by Anonymous

Thanks, I will check that site for sure. Too clarify though it wasn't sitting idle, is there any adverse affect too being left in service without restocking the salt? My guess is that it would have been unable too regen properly and something would wear out.

On 2017-05-15 by (mod) re: where to find water softener manuals for Culligan and other brands - free PDF downloads

Jason

Over at WATER CONDITIONER / SOFTENER MANUALS https://inspectapedia.com/plumbing/Water_Softener_Manuals.php you will find a plethora of free Culligan mauals in down-loadable PDF forms. See if you can find one of these for your softener so that you can get the correct advice on re-starting your system and on doing a manual regen

The telephone in the Culligan water softener display panel is telling you that the control board thinks you need to call Culligan repair services.

But besides un-plugging the system and plugging it back in, you want to see if you can reset the control and then re-program it. I've read opinions that the icon means that the control board has failed but I'd be slow to assume that considering that the telephone icon appeared in the display after a period of disuse.

My best guess is that after sitting idle for a time, the control or o-rings have failed and you'll need a replacement "seal pack" (that contains valve parts and o-rings) to rebuild the control head water valve that directs water into the brine tank and brine back through the softener to regenerate its resin's salt dose.

If you would not enjoy taking your old water softener control head apart (turn off power to avoid shock, drain water pressure, expect trouble fro touching old plumbing fittings), an option is to remove the whole control head from its piping connections and from the softener itself. Some Culligan dealers will let you bring in the control head for them to rebuild or repair. Call your Culligan dealer to ask if that's an option for you.

More generally, common failure parts in an older water softener include: O-rings in the control head and valve, a failed timer clock (that ought not prevent a manual regen cycle) and a failed control board.

Watch out: I've read a few complaints of very high service call fees just to diagnose an old water softener. Find out what you'll be charged to be sure that the water softener repair fee doesn't approach the cost of a new water softener.

On 2017-05-15 by Jason

I have a older culligan water softener. I completely neglected it for months and forgot too add salt.

Then one day I noticed the normally blank screen has a telephone icon on it. I of course bought salt and filled the tank up and had too unplug wait 5 min and replug too clear the screen.

Everything started up fine but when I attempted too manually start a regen it cleared the screen and popped the telephone pic back up again.
Any ideas of what I most likely screwed by neglecting it that I might attempt too fix before calling a proffesional would be awsome.

On 2017-05-15 by (mod) re: where to find the manual regneration control on a Supreme water softener

Don:

If the manual regeneration control is not obvious on your water softener, and because there are so many softener brands and models, with no more information than your e-text we have to together find and look at the manual for your softener or to look more closely at the control itself.

Older controls have a manual regen dial or switch right on the control. Newer electronic controls generally have a button that cycles through various softener settings and features, one of which will cause a manual regen, OR they too may have a REGEN button. You can use the page top or bottom CONTACT link to send me photos of your water softener lablels, data tags, and control.

You can also go directly to our WATER CONDITIONER / SOFTENER MANUALS page at https://inspectapedia.com/plumbing/Water_Softener_Manuals.php to find the manual for your softener,

You can also take a look at our article on water softener controls, found at SOFTENER ADJUSTMENT & CONTROLS https://inspectapedia.com/plumbing/Water_Softener_Settings.php

The only "Supreme Water Softener" brand I could find is provided by AWG or American Water Girl, in Southern California, Tel: (877) 414-1420, Email: Kim@AmericanWaterGirl.com, a re-seller specializing in these water softener brands: Fleck, Pentair, Purolite water softeners.

There are also generic water softeners that make use of widely-sold controls.

On 2017-05-15 by Don

Supreme water softener. How do I manually re-charge the system?

On 2017-05-01 by scott

Kenmore water softener - no water flow display doesn't scroll across. I cleaned venturi

On 2017-04-22 by (mod) re: will water in the brine tank cause trouble?

No but it sounds as if either you need to add salt or your softener isn't pumping out as much water as it should.

On 2017-04-22 by thomas sr.

used manual regeneration twice. now have water in with the salt crystals. will it hurt the system?

On 2017-04-15 by (mod) re: demand regeneration water softener head never automatically regens

Ryan,

Some water softeners are a bit tricky to program. I'd run through the program steps, first seeing how the unit has been set-up and recording that before messing with any changes. I don't assume the control head is bad before knowing how it's set up.

On 2017-04-15 by ryan

I have a demand regeneration power head. It never turns on by itself but it works and i have soft water when i manually regen it. Do i need a new one?

Reader Question: Water Softener Not Softening the Water: water test shows 1120 ppm of hardness and other data - how should I remove the hardness?

In my home the water test report showing the following details :

PARTICULARS OUR WATER RECOMMEND LEVEL
PH 7.7 7.5 - 8.5
TDS 1266 PPM
HARDENSS 1120 PPM
ALKANITY 450 PPM
CHLORIDES 764 PPM

Note: Not advisable for cooking & Bathing purpose use for floor cleaning & flushing.

Can I know what is the best way to remove the hardness of water. - Shobia 6/20/12

Reply: water softener capacity must be able to handle level of water hardness

Shobia it does sound as if you'd need water treatment to make that water usable in the home; if you call two local water treatment companies they will be glad to propose systems to meet your needs, and typically don't charge for that advice.

Using hardness as an example, it's quite simple to check the level of hardness you need to deal with against the capacity of the water softener system proposed.

I can't say more as I don't understand your data - hardness is usually expressed in milligrams per liter or grains per gallon, not parts per million.

Reader Comment from Cullman 8/26/12:

You need larger size water softener to remove this high hardness. Also TDS (total dissolved solids) level is very high , so for drinking water I suggest using Reverse osmosis system at the kitchen sink. Ph level is good.

Reply:

Thanks Cullman for the helpful suggestions to Shobia - Ed.

Reader Question: Water softener keeps regenerating & water remains hard

About once a year my softener will have salt in the tank and will run regenerating. But nothing happens and the water remains hard running throughout he house.

Maybe something is clogged? What should I look to do. Thanks so much. - Rob P. 7/24/12

Reply:

Rob, check for a stuck float switch in the brine tank;

See WATER SOFTENER RUNS TOO LONG

and see BRINE TANK FLOAT LEVEL ADJUSTMENT in our water softener diagnosis & maintenance articles.

Reader Question: Can I replace the resin media inside of a water softener?

8/31/14 Ron Fix It Man said:

My softener is 13 years old and I have read the resin becomes ineffective in about that life time. Iron out has been used with little benefit. Effectiveness of the softener has declined unless greater amounts of salt per cycle are used. Troubleshooting reveals no improper cycle operation. Is it true the resin has a limited life? Can it be restored, say with a wash of dilute muratic acid? If not, where can it be purchased?

Reply: procedure to replace water softener treatment tank resin media

Ron

Indeed it is possible to replace the resin in a water softener.

Water softener resin can last for 20 years or even longer, but may have a shorter life depending on the chemistry of the water being processed in the water softener. But I would not start down the "replace water softener resin" path before diagnosing the problem with my water softener to be sure I'm making the proper and necessary repair.

If you've done that and are ready to replace the resin in the softner tank, details of just how to replace the resin in the water softner, where to buy resin, and other advice are
at WATER SOFTENER RESIN REPLACEMENT

On 2017-01-04 by (mod) re: put the softener in bypass as a diagnostic step

I recommend that you put the water softener into bypass mode. That will take the whole system out of your plumbing Loop. Then turn off any other water supply into the softener -though think there won't be any.

Then you can call for a plumber to repair your water softener. I can't tell from your message if the problem is a control head or something else.

On 2017-01-04 by flushing of water softener tsfonbnaaa " acnif electricity failure Whatshould I do I have aocejstic system

fluskiing water continuous even' if we have a power failure I have a sceptic system Please advise what to do.

On 2016-12-10 by (mod) re: softener Regen button doesn't cause a regeneration cycle

Paul

Something sounds wrong here, I agree. But I'm a little confused by your question. One would not try to increase hardness by increasing softening.

Hard water is high in mineral content, principally calcium and magnesium.

Soft water is low in mineral content.

Softening water means removing minerals. That's what a water softener does.

If you send your water softener through a manual regen cycle and it does nothing then it's not working and it's time to call for repair.

On 2016-12-09 by Paul

My water is not soft. I broke up salt bridge, cleaned Venturi and all maintenance and corrective actions I can find.

All settings appear correct. I have also tried to increase hardness setting to try to get it to soften more. I can't tell if it is even doing anything. If I hit regen now I hear a motor noise for about 3 seconds but other than that I have never heard any noise or seen any water movement or salt usage. Is there supposed to be a motor that runs during regeneration?

On 2016-12-04 by Anonymous

What do we need to do too much salt in water taste is strong salt ice maker ice cubes are salty

 

On 2016-10-14 by jane c greene

My hot water has become very salty! Noiced it when washing my face in the evening. It was ok earlier when I washed.

On 2016-10-10 by (mod) re: orange deposit at the water conditioner

Marylou:

The orange deposit you describe could be from any of several sources: mud, silt in the water supply, iron and rust in the water supply system and piping, or possibly even an algae or bacterial contamination. The fact that you run water less often at the tub suggests that it's rust from iron pipes.

On 2016-10-10 by Marylou

Now that my kids are back in school I only take 2 showers a week at home (gym rest of the time) and do 1 or 2 loads of laundry a week. I'm using very little water. I've noticed the tub where the water drains once the cycle has happened has water with some orange dust in it and if the water dries it's all orange dust/powder. Does this mean anything?

On 2016-09-27 by Lisa

When my water softener valves are on, the water pressure through out my house becomes very low. What could be causing this and how can it be fixed?

On 2016-09-27 by Anonymous

I live in St Petersburg Florida. I just had my Culligan water softener installed in my new house. I had it running at my previous house. This new house has a 110 gallon water heater. The softener has been hooked up for 2 weeks but I don't think the water feels soft. We have the softener hardness level set at 20 ppi ( which is the highest number for our county). There is a small puddle on the ground near the softener. What is going on? Should I have Culligan return?

On 2016-09-25 by (mod) re: over bleaching or bleach splash causes white spots and holes in fabrics

Anonymous,

Usually the symptom you describe is caused by bleach or over bleaching or splashing bleach on to Fabrics.

On 2016-09-25 by Anonymous

All clothes, jeans, towels and whites getting white spots grows into holes... any idea why?

On 2016-09-21 by (mod) re: rumbling noise in the water softener and no house water

Odd. PUt the water softener into bypass mode and also turn it off. That should give you water in the house.

On 2016-09-20 by Dena

Water softener made a loud rumbling noise and now I have no water inside the house

On 2016-09-17 by (mod)

Steph I'm confused by the question as water softeners do not set house water pressure; if your house pressure is abnormally high check at your incoming water supply where there should be (or you may need to install) a pressure regulator.

On 2016-09-17 by Steph

My fleck 5600 seems to have the pressure really high, I need to know what do. I have it set to only 3 people in the house. I'm not sure if I need to buy a new one

On 2016-07-30 by (mod) re: does regen cycle frequency go up when there are more people in the house?

If your softener has a control that automatically monitors water usage then yes that will affect the regeneration cycle frequency.

On 2016-07-29 by Harold

Softener cycles 2 or 3 times a week. Is that normal? S people in the house does the water usage determine the number of cycles?

first time we've owned a water softener. Thanks

On 2016-07-25 by (mod) re: water softener makes water taste salty

Linda:

Check the softener settings: salt dose and regen frequency and compare those with that specified in the softener manual for the hardness of your incoming water and your family's water usage volume or rate.

Check and confirm that the softener is not stuck in "regen" or "backwash" mode.

High levels of iron or rust can't be removed by a typical water softener. If your water has that problem you may need an additional treatment step.

On 2016-07-25 by linda

Well,pump and softener is approx one and 1/2years old. Softener uses 2+bags of salt per week(2 member household)-water level must be 4+" above salt or water gets hard and orange-if water gets below salt,household water tastes very salty-must add water at least twice daily to prevent hard,orange/rusty water. Please,help! Thanks

...

Continue reading  at DIAGNOSE WATER SOFTENER PROBLEMS - topic home, where you'll find a helpful water conditioner troubleshooting table, or select a topic from the closely-related articles below, or see the complete ARTICLE INDEX.

Or see WATER SOFTENER DIAGNOSTIC FAQs-7 - more-recent Q&A about fixing a water softener

Or see these

Water Softener Diagnosis & Repair Articles

• DIAGNOSE WATER SOFTENER PROBLEMS
• WATER CONDITIONER / SOFTENER MANUALS
• WATER SOFTENER ADJUSTMENT & CONTROLS
• WATER SOFTENERS & CONDITIONERS - home
  • BRINE TANK BRIDGING or CRUSTING
  • DIAGNOSE WATER SOFTENER PROBLEMS
  • BRINE TANK WATER TOO HIGH
  • BRINE TANK WATER TOO LOW
  • WATER SOFTENER BACKUP, FLOODING, LEAKS
  • WATER SOFTENER OPERATING CYCLES
  • WATER SOFTENER RUNS TOO LONG
  • WHITE MINERAL SCALE DEPOSITS on FIXTURES

Suggested citation for this web page

WATER SOFTENER DIAGNOSTIC FAQs-6 at InspectApedia.com - online encyclopedia of building & environmental inspection, testing, diagnosis, repair, & problem prevention advice.

Or see this

INDEX to RELATED ARTICLES: ARTICLE INDEX to WATER TREATMENT SYSTEMS

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