Well Foot Valve repair diagnostic questions & answers:

These questions and answers address common problems with well piping foot valves or check valves including their relation to loss of well pump prime.

This article series describes the foot valve used on well piping for water well Pumps & Water Wells: we explain what a foot valve is, how they work, why they are used, and how to diagnose troubles with this special in-well check valve found at the bottom of well piping in some wells.

We provide advice about loss of well pump prime due to bad foot valves and what to do when things go wrong with the check valve.

What is a Foot Valve and Why do we need one on well piping?

These questions about foot valves and check valves on well piping were posted originally

at FOOT VALVES - topic home. Be sure to review that article.

How to Find & Fix a Foot Valve used to pick-up for lake water

I have a shallow well jet pump 1.5 hp with a sealed supply line to a lake. It was cycling too frequently and going on and off every few seconds with poor flow to house.

I have replaced the pressure control unit (set to kick in at 30 psi and out at 52 psi, and does) and replaced the filters between the pump and the storage pressure tank (80 liters/pressure is fine in the tank at 28 psi empty) with success in that the cycling is gone.

But, when I run water (hot or cold), the system only gives about 3-4 gallons of water (rated to give 7-8 gallons at least) and, after the pump kicks in at 30 psi (appropriately), the pump just does not seem to be able to keep up the water flow.

The flow in all house taps slows by half and the pump keeps running until the tap is turned off. It then takes the pump twice or more as long as it should or 10-15 minutes to fill the pressure tank again, (the motor gets hot, though it shuts off appropriately at 52 psi).

I suspect I have a problem with the pump. such as needing to replace the impeller. But, would like some advice before I get a new impeller, seals, etc. and take the pump apart. Thanks for your advice!!

I should add, I am in an isolated location 2 hours+ from any plumber or city. The pump is 10 years old.

If I do replace the pump parts, such as the impeller, I wonder if I should install a filter of some kind (though I can't find one recommended for this purpose) between the pump and the lake supply line (before or after the check valve?) to prevent sediment, etc. from fouling the pump again. (Mar 30, 2014) William

Reply:

William, usually the foot valve installed at the end of a lake pick-up is the screen against picking up debris into the pump system; ou'll want to investigate where the pick-up is in the lake and whether it's sitting in muck or algae or weeds.

Follow-up:

Thanks, DanJoe.
Presently, the foot valve is under 4 ft of ice, usually suspended 2 ft from the bottom in 10 ft of water (or 14 ft, if you count the ice). I will assess it after spring break-up in 6-8 weeks. (I am in northern Canada.)

I did not check it last year, but the year before, it did have some build-up of crud and algae, so I made sure it was repositioned up off the bottom held by a cement block. There are no weeds and the bottom is generally open sand mixed with a bit of mud.

Do you mean that the lack of water flow could be just the pump is unable to draw water due to foot valve blockage, even with such a strong motor? If so, I will postpone taking the pump apart until I can check and clean the foot valve. (It does have a coarse mesh cover.)

Reply by (mod) :

Yes William, on occasion we have to scrape the crud off of the foot valve and check that it's up a bit off the bottom - I've done the same thing with Stu Tucker, a engineer friend who had this system at Lake George in NY.

He also invented and we installed a typical over-engineered system that pumped air back down the water line in winter so that he could turn water on and off into his home during times when the lake was freezing.

 

Question: hard water eats away at my foot valve - can I get a plastic one?

I have hard water that keeps eating away at the foot valves / jet bodies. If they made them in pvc I would never have to worry - it would never break . Why can't I get them in pvc plastic . 2016/11/05 Tim

Reply: yes: here are sources of plastic foot valves for water systems

Thanks for the comment, Tim.

There are PVC / Plastic foot valves, though they're not as durable as those made using brass and stainless steel. We show a plastic foot valve on our FOOT VALVES home page.

Watch out: I would distinguish between hard water - high in calcium and magnesium, and corrosive water that will corrode metals. Hard water will leave mineral deposits on both plastic and metal plumbing parts, though I agree that some smooth plastics such as PVC are more resistant to those deposits.

Corrosive metal will corrode brass and more slowly stainless steel. If your foot valves are being "eaten away" I'd start by having the well water tested for corrosivity.

Water Source is a manufacturer of both plastic and metal foot valves - sold at Home Depot and other suppliers.
Water Source, LLC
905 Hickory Lane
Mansfield, OH 44905
P: 800-346-7611
F: 866-899-4345

Mailing Address:
PO Box 3795
Mansfield, OH 44907
Email: sales@watersourceusa.com

 

 

Question: Water pressure loss after electrical power outage - lightning strike & lost well water

Hi,after a power outage that lasted the entire day, I now have no water at all. I'm new to all of this, so please bear with me. Although, thanks to your very informative site I'm learning. I have a single line jet pump and am not sure what the depth of the well is.

I tried to re prime with no success, so had a well person check it out. He spent over an hour adding water, turning the pump on and off, gradually bringing the water and pressure back up to the top. Right as he was ready to give up it worked, and water was flowing strong out of the faucet. It didn't last long though, and he said there must be a crack or hole in the piping of the well, which is letting air in.

What I don't understand is I had water before the power outage with a supposed cracked or damaged pipe. So since he got the water back up to the top and flowing, why wouldn't it continue and keep the prime since it was before?

He advised that since the well is older (25 years) and the cost to find out what is wrong with it would be $1500 plus the cost of repair, that I would be better off having a new well dug, which is $3800.

I looked into claiming it on my insurance, but was told it had to be caused from a lightning strike, not just a power outage. Is it a possibility that whatever is wrong could have been caused by lightning, and if so, how could it be confirmed? - Valora

Reply: check for bad foot valve and replace it; refer to details of well pump priming procedure, check valves, foot valves

Indeed, Valora, a lightning hit can burn up electrical wiring, controls, pumps, and can even damage plumbing pipes. But your description sounds as if there was a loss of prime and difficulty re-priming the pump.

If the water system has a bad foot valve (located on the bottom of well piping) and power stays off for some time, you are more likely to lose well prime. The proper repair is to pull the well piping and replace the foot valve.

The reason this problem shows up after a power loss is that even though the foot valve may have been leaking for some time, as long as you had electrical power, when the foot valve leaked the dropping pressure at the water tank caused the pump to turn on by itself, restoring water, pressure in the water tank, and prime before so much water was lost that the pump couldn't recover by itself.

But when power was lost for hours, so much water drained back into the well that the well could not re-prime itself when it started again.

See WELL PUMP PRIMING PROCEDURE

Pump loses prime - Recurrent foot valve trouble - I'm going to eliminate it

I have a Davey bore master pump that is reasonably new and as like every year I have to prime up the pump due to what I expect is a leaky foot valve over winter.

When the sprinkler system is not needed it leaks back losing my prime.

But this year I have primed the pump up and at first for a minute or so I have great pressure then the pump changes tune and almost sounds like it surges and I loose pressure it still pumps but the flow rate is way down and when

I cut the pipe below the foot valve it hissed air.

I don't know if it was a vacuum or if pressure was escaping but why am I loosing flow when at first I have great pressure and if I run the pump with the primer Bung out I don't loose flow

Tomorrow I'm going to eliminate the foot valve issue because it's cheaper to do but could it be an internal pump seal issue were it pumps both ways or am I p****g in the wind if any body as any answers please comment my grass is looking like c**p On 2016-11-16 by Adam -

Reply by (mod) - diagnose the trouble before eliminating or changing parts

Watch out: Adam; you can't simply remove a foot valve and expect your water pump to work if the valve was required in the first place.

Without a check valve or foot valve to keep water in the well pipe between the pump's inlet and the point at which water is picked up, if the total "lift" height required to draw water into the pump is greater than the pump's lift capacity, your pump will burn up before it ever delivers water.

When a pump sends out water briefly then continues to run "dry" the first think I do is re-prime the system again with more water. If for example you have 30 or more feet of pipe between pup and well and you simply fill the pump's own priming chamber, leaving the pipe dry and empty, that may be insufficient.

It's not uncommon to have to prime a pump in stages if there is a lot of empty pipe.

Flomatic, in a typical FLOMATIC FOOT VALVE INSTALLATION SHEET [PDF] warns

If the installation instructions are not followed warranty or any warranty claims may be void. NOTE: On initial system start-up gradual priming of vertical water column is recommended to avoid foot valve damage due to water shock

Try a more careful and complete priming procedure as we detail

at PRIME the PUMP, HOW TO

and if that doesn't work, it's time for a new foot valve. - Daniel

Can a foot valve be installed horizontally?

Can a foot valve be installed horizontally? On 2016-05-16 by hank

Reply by (mod) - foot valve position can impact foot valve closing operation

It depends on the valve type, Hank. Most foot valves expect to be installed vertically or on a slope (but not dead horizontal) steep slope and operate by gravity.

Watch out: If you install one of those foot valve types on too-shallow an angle out of vertical, the foot valve may not work and you'll lose pump prime and thus lose your water supply.

Typical foot valve installation instructions tell us this explicitly.

 

Water is coming up through my foot valve and out the casing top

I have a Goulds shallow well jet pump one horsepower it's a year old I have a brand new bladder tank not even a day old brand new pressure gauge switch came with the pump.

But all this sudden I was outside in the yard a couple days ago and noticed my pump just kicking on and off and staying on for a really long time I thought a couple different things bladder tank ended up being bad.

But now it's just strange where my drop pipe goes into the well in the casing when the pump shuts off like it's supposed to when it's primed up to the set pressure all of the sudden water is literally coming up out of the casing around my drop pipe!

I've never seen this before and I've been dealing with this one for over 15 years a couple different things came to mind at first there was a leak of maybe it needed a pressure switch the points were sticking maybe the gauge was bad I end up having a buy a new bladder tank cuz there was a small leak on the outside of it but I did that yesterday

And now it's being weird the only thing I can think of is the football because I can literally hear my bladder tank burp after the pump shut off. It'll take a minute or so and then it will literally hear a big old bubble go up into it and then that's when I'll look down and see the water coming up out of the casing!

I think it's the sit down but I'm not for sure does anybody know how or if I can test the foot valve!

And if the football is good anybody got any ideas what else it could be causing that - On 2021-04-24 4 by Kris

by (mod)

@Kris,

Some wells become "artesian" seasonally when a local water table rises; if that's what's going on at your well you'll need to install a well spool to keep water in the well, or a relief outlet to safely drain excess water away.

See ARTESIAN WELLS, WELL SPOOLS

 

Complete loss of water pressure "fixed" by tapping the pressure control switch

I'm having trouble with my well. We loose water all together but if I tap on the "points" on the top of the pump it kicks back on and we will have water again for a couple hours, strange thing is it only happens when it rains or the ground is wet, what could be causing this? We aren't even sure what needs replaced - (Dec 17, 2012) Katrina

Reply:

Katrina

Corroded, burned contact switch points in the pump pressure control switch, or debris clogging in the pressure switch water pressure sensing port can cause the symptom you describe. I suggest changing the switch

 

Question: solid yellow light on well pump control means what?

(May 19, 2014) Bill Mobley

I have a well in the mountains of NC. The well dried up a couple years ago.

Working with a reputable well man, I learned that I had burned up my pump, 900 feet down. It was replaced, and at the same time I put in a reservoir outside since it appeared the well ran low, but maybe not dry, and we could use the reservoir while the well refilled, at times.

We also placed a Pump Tech box. After all this, well was still inadequate, so I fracked, and since then all has been well x 2 years.

Now I have a solid yellow light on the pump tech box suggesting low amperage.

The water column in the casing is about 1-2 seconds down, so I don't think the well is low now.

Could a faulty foot valve be causing the problem? How can check to see if the output pipe (running into the reservoir) is clogged? Will I need to pull up 900 feet of pipe to check the pump intake? Any advice appreciated.

My pump man has advised waiting 24 hours to see if the well fills up, but the height of H2O in the column suggests to me the well has water.

Reply:

Bill,

We need to know and then review the brand and model of your pump controls, but usually a low current draw indicates either that the pump is cavitating or pumping air, or that perhaps the motor is disconnected from the impeller.

A faulty foot valve screen might admit debris and damage the pump, or if clogged might keep enough water from entering the pump.

Question: lawn watering system pressure surging

(June 1, 2014) Jerald Bulifant

lawn well pump is surging and random water flow

Reply:

Jerald,

take a look at

inspectapedia.com/water/Short_Cycling_Pump.php

to see if that describes the symptom and its diagnosis.

 

Question: distance from pump and pressure tank to the suction line

(June 8, 2014) Anonymous

I am currently building a cabin and have a question about the well and pump setup.

I have a 25ft deep well located approx. 25ft from where the cabin foundation will be. I would like to put the pump and pressure tank in the basement.

My question is would this be to far to run my suction line ( I plan to run 1 1/4" suction line)...Thanks-frank

Reply:

That distance is not likely to be a problem - keeping tank and pressure control switch close is recommended however

 

Question: pump is primed but not getting any water

(June 28, 2014) Pete needs help

I have a deep well with a two line jet pump. 1 hp . I have water at well head and water in pump . pump is 2 ft away from well . but pump will not pressureize. I split pump to check impeller. it is fine and free of trash spins freely when pump is turned on, well is ten years old .

360 ft deep foot valve is only 6 months old and is 50 ft below water level which is 30 ft below ground level

Reply:

Pete

If you have water in the well and the pump is primed but won't produce pressure, and assuming the pump runs, I suspect a damaged pump impeller assembly.

Other explanations include a leak in well piping or very low voltage.

 

Question: suspect clogged foot valve or well at end of life

(July 2, 2014) Mike

We have a shallow well that is down about 21 feet. Recently, we had to replace the well pump and all of the pipes, T's, etc.

The new pump holds prime but we continue to lose water pressure in the house after 10 mins of using the shower. The air tank was checked as well and it is fine. We lowered the psi to 20/40 and the pump will come on when we flush the toilet as well.

Since everything within the house has been replaced, we are now thinking that the well itself may be the issue. It was installed 26 yrs ago. We think it may have a clogged foot valve or the well itself may have come to the end of its lifespan.

Should we spend the time digging 5-6 feet below ground to see if there is a bad coupling since we are guessimating that the well is 150 feet from the house. Any help would be appreciated

Reply:

Mike

Replacing "all of the pipes" did not, I take it include well piping and foot valve?

A shallow well can give good water supply for many years then conditions can change that drastically cut the well flow rate. At a NY well that was 27 feet deep and gave plenty of water since the 1920's, when the town road crew came by and blasted on Vassar Road as part of reducing the radius of a curve in the road, the well's bedrock water supply was disturbed, silted, and reduced.

Wells can also clog and lose flow rate over time even without an external influence as mineral deposits clog rock fissures.

If your system has normal pressure and the pump works normally - able to reach the cutoff pressure - then you run out of water after a time, I suspect a reduced well flow rate.

Well piping leak effects tend to be consistent rather than appearing only after a period of time.

 

Question: black specs in well water, small & flat

7/21/2014 Hillard said:

I have a very deep well (160 feet+). Though the water is hard it is good tasting, does not stain or smell. The well is at least 40 - 50 years old (I've had it 38 years). In the past I have had to pull the lines due to a split in the line and another time pull the lines to replace the foot valve. Neither time a fun job.

This morning I am noticing black specks or flakes coming out of my cold water line at the kitchen sink.

This is coming through the little filter at the end of the faucet - which I removed. The specks still come out.

Tried other outlets and now same thing out of a bathroom cold line. Did not notice them in hot water - though suspect as water in tank is used the new cold water may show them up there. Also so far have not noticed any in the commode.

The specks are black, small and flat. When I have filtered some through paper towel I can rub them and they seem to break down - so probably not metal. I recall seeing very large black flakes in the commode bowl when the foot valve went out, also it totally lost the prime. I still have good pressure

Suggestions on what to tackle first - or do I just wait and see if more things develop. Could it just be a bunch of dirt stirred up in the well? We are 6 inches under in rain fall this year, though have been getting rain the last few days.

Not a happy thought to pull those lines again. If I do, any suggestions for replacements or are the black plastic lines the industry standard? I do have copper lines in the house to all the outlets. Thanks for any directions. I do 95% of all my own maintenance so can usually tackle about anything if need be.

Reply:

Hillard,

Could be debris from the well bottom, including rust from corrosion of the well casing, but I'd have expected some variation in debris particle size & color if this were the source.

Is your well pump an above ground 2 line jet pump? If so, check for a damaged impeller or bearing.

 

Question: black specs in water supply

(July 21, 2014) Hillard said:
I have a very deep well (160 feet+). Though the water is hard it is good tasting, does not stain or smell. The well is at least 40 - 50 years old (I've had it 38 years). In the past I have had to pull the lines due to a split in the line and another time pull the lines to replace the foot valve.

Neither time a fun job. This morning I am noticing black specks or flakes coming out of my cold water line at the kitchen sink. This is coming through the little filter at the end of the faucet - which I removed. The specks still come out.

Tried other outlets and now same thing out of a bathroom cold line.

Did not notice them in hot water - though suspect as water in tank is used the new cold water may show them up there. Also so far have not noticed any in the commode.

The specks are black, small and flat.

When I have filtered some through paper towel I can rub them and they seem to break down - so probably not metal. I recall seeing very large black flakes in the commode bowl when the foot valve went out, also it totally lost the prime. I still have good pressure.

Suggestions on what to tackle first - or do I just wait and see if more things develop. Could it just be a bunch of dirt stirred up in the well? We are 6 inches under in rain fall this year, though have been getting rain the last few days.

Not a happy thought to pull those lines again. If I do, any suggestions for replacements or are the black plastic lines the industry standard? I do have copper lines in the house to all the outlets. Thanks for any directions. I do 95% of all my own maintenance so can usually tackle about anything if need be.

Reply:

Hillard,

Could be debris from the well bottom, but I'd have expected some variation in debris particle size & color. Sulphur contaminants can also cause black specs and debris in the water supply.

Is your well pump an above ground 2 line jet pump? If so, check for a damaged impeller or bearing.

 

Question: foot valve for 2-pipe drop water system

(July 29, 2014) Burton Sine said:
is there a foot valve on a 2 pipe drop water system? The pump/motor assy. is located inside our house.

Reply:

Yes, along with a Venturi that uses water sent down the smaller pipe to bring more water up.

 

Question: Flotec FP5172 to replace an old cast-iron lawn pump for sprinkler system installed with trouble: diagnose & fix

(Aug 28, 2014) Philip said:
I recently installed a Flotec FP5172 to replace an old cast-iron lawn pump for my shallow well sprinkler system. The 2" suction pipe out of the ground runs to a 90-degree elbow, is sized down to 1.5", passes to a 1.5" spring-type check valve (horizontally mounted), then into the suction side of the pump.

Total run distance from ground to suction side of the pump is no more than 3 feet. Distance between check valve and inlet is 10". The outlet of the pump runs to a K-Rain 6-zone indexing valve. I do not know if the well has a foot valve.

I live in coastal Florida, where the water table is high. The system operates fine when primed just prior to operation. It will supply water at full pressure while running. But I keep losing prime soon after the pump is off (within 1-2 minutes).

I have installed and re-checked 3 separate check valves, so I do not believe them to be faulty.

No leaks are evident in the suction line, and no leaks are evident in the pump housing. Once the pump is turned off, I assume the water is passing past the check valve and back down the suction line into the ground. Do I have the misfortune of 3 separate, faulty check valves (1 brass and 2 PVC)?

I see a lot of info about faulty foot valves, but is a foot valve really necessary if pulling less than 10ft vertically? Do you have any recommendations? Thanks in advance.

Reply:

Philip,

I note that the Flotec FP5172 is a shallow-well one-line jet pump with a 10 foot lift capacity.

There are several common reasons for losing prime with this type of water pump (aside from improper priming itself which from your note is not the problem in your case):

- air leaks on the suction line

- a leaky foot valve or check valve

- a foot valve or other check valve that stick shut can also mean no water is delivered and be mistaken for loss of prime.

- piping is smaller than recommended by the company (see the pump's installation manual)

- low water in the well, poor well flow rate - dropping water below the foot valve or intake (doesn't sound like your problem) [Generally a 1-line jet pump won't lift water from deeper than about 27 feet]

- A broken or clogged impeller can also cause no water to be delivered and might be mistaken for loss of prime - priming the pump might dislodge clogging, for example - if only temporarily. (This doesn't sound like your problem)

- frozen pipes (hardly in Florida)

- debris-clogged foot valve strainer (or foot valve inlet actually covered by settled debris in the well)

Also, some systems don't like more than a single check valve installed but I don't think that's your problem.

From what you've said I'd pull and check the foot valve or just replace it. Yes you need a foot valve in your well. It's not a lift issue it's that the foot valve is protecting against loss of prime. Without the foot valve when the pump stops water can run back down out of the piping into the well.

I'd also check for leaks in the well piping (air in or water out) and for leaks in the pump itself (air in, might be missed.)

Let me know what you find or how a new foot valve works for you.

---

(Sept 5, 2014) Philip said:
Sincere thanks for the prompt and thorough response! Yes, the pump is a one-line jet. Regarding your comments,

- No apparent air leaks on suction line.

- I suspect leaky foot valve.

- Water is delivered once primed and running continuously.

- See comment on piping size below.

- Will check the water level in the well with a fishing line, but I doubt low water level. And flow rate seems fine.

- Brand new pump. Have removed outer casing to inspect, and impeller is fine.

- No frozen pipes.

- Could be clogged foot valve. I notice brown water when pump has not been used for a few days.

- I only have one check valve mounted horizontally.

Since my earlier posting, I have replaced the pump with the 2HP version of the same Flotec pump. I had noticed low output on some of the longer sprinkler runs. The 2HP seems to work well in terms of output/flow. The new pump uses 2" suction and output lines including a new brass 2" check valve.

With the new setup, the system doesn't seem to lose prime *quite* as fast as the earlier 1.5" setup. But it still loses prime while off. It takes a few hours.

To clarify, I prime the pump via priming plug. Turn on. Pump pulls suction and delivers water successfully.

Once I turn the pump off, water slowly drains out of pump past the check valve. I know the check valve "works" but is there a possibility of back pressure or something that is causing the check valve to remain open just enough for water in the pump to drain?

Regardless of the condition or presence of a foot valve, shouldn't the check valve (as long as it works) always keep water within the pump?

Another comment, I dug down about 5ft parallel to the well pipe and notice that there does not appear to be a well casing pipe on this well. In other words, it's simply a 2" PVC pipe. I don't know the depth of the well nor if it's a single pipe or branches into multiple lines.

Assuming it's a single line and relatively shallow, I should just be able to pull the entire pipe out of the ground and check the foot valve correct? If there's no actual well casing I run the risk of collapsing the dirt into the hole where the pipe was.

Any suggestions on how to pull the pipe and minimize any issues with reinstalling?

Thanks again.

Philip

Reply:

Philip

I'm a bit confused. If a check valve "works" then it doesn't leak back down into the well.

If your well is a shallow one then the weight of pvc piping is not too much to handle (just 25 feet or so) whereas deep wells or iron pipe are heavy and need a winch or more professional equipment.

Question: ok to install a backflow preventer or check valve on the well line with a foot valve already in place

(Sept 25, 2014) Jerry Miller said:
Is it ok to install a backflow preventer or check valve on the well line with a foot valve already in place. I changed from an immersion pump to a jet pump and the line into the well is almost 30 ft down?

Reply:

Jerry I do see multiple check valves in some installations but also report some sources advising against multiple check valves on the same well piping system, worrying that it can cause pump malfunction.

So I'd check with the pump manufacturer.

 

Question: My pump kicks on about every 30 mins. even when no one is using water,

(Oct 20, 2014) Ron said:
My pump kicks on about every 30 mins. even when no one is using water, you can here it kick on/off during night,
when nothing is using water , not conditioner or iron filter, no leaks inside house. suspect check valve.

Reply:

There could be a leaky foot valve, a leak in well piping, or a subtle water loss such as a running toilet tank fill valve.

Question: My well was short cycling

(Oct 28, 2014) Eric said:
My well was short cycling. Added air to tank. Cleaned out copper line to pressure switch. Installed new pressure gauge. Also checked for leaks under house (no leaks). Now well comes on at 30psi goes off at 50psi. Then drops from 50psi to 30psi in about 10 seconds. It keeps the pump running for a long period of time then shuts off briefly. Please help!

Reply:

This problem is diagnosed at WATER PUMP SHORT CYCLING - home

This problem is also discussed at WATER PUMP INTERMITTENT CYCLING

 

Question: What's the proper gap from the well bottom to the foot valve?

Is there any rule for maintaining the gap from the floor for Foot valve in well/sump and if so how much(? Oct 28, 2014) Anonymous

Reply:

The distance from foot valve to well bottom may vary depending on the well type but typically it's two to five feet.

 

 

 

Question: Will a foot valve work at 200 foot depth?

I have a new 200 foot deep 4" diameter well; is it possibly to use a foot valve and pvc piping instead of a submersible pump? Any rish of the foot valve damaging the pvc? Will a foot valve work at 200 foot depth? Thanks. (Feb 10, 2015) question: foot valve for deep well?

Reply:

In reverse order,

A foot valve doesn't damage the piping to which it's attached.

A foot valve will work at 200 ft if properly installed. Here is an excerpt from Flomatic's foot valve installation instructions

" In general Flomatic valves are pressure rated 400 psi or 920 feet of water pressure.

This does not mean that a valve can be set at a well depth of 920 feet. To alleviate and reduce the hydraulic shocks in the riser pipe it is recommended that a check valve be installed every 200 feet in the riser pipe. "

- retrieved 2/10/14, original source: www.flomatic.com/assets/pdf_files/oem/16048.pdf

(Feb 11, 2015) Anonymous

Thank you - great information; two more questions please:

1) if I insert 190'+ of tubing into my 200' well with a check valve at the bottom, will the water weight/volume in the suction tube be too much for a surface pump to suction out?

2) Would a surface gas pump of sufficient size pull that depth of water through the foot valve?

Thanks again. What I'm trying to figure out is if I can avoid having to install a submersible pump and just use a check valve, tubing, and surface level pump.

 

Question: Which self priming pump rating would be sufficient for me to PULL water from 20 feet deep?

Which self priming pump rating would be sufficient for me to PULL water from 20 feet deep? I am residing in an apartment and would like to use a pump to draw water from ground floor (muncipal supply) to 1st floor. And is a footvalve required for this setup? If yes, where should I install it? (Apr 9, 2015) Sridhar

Reply:

Sridhar, all one line jet pumps are designed to lift water from about 20 - 25 feet of depth, some can lift from a bit deeper, though at reduced flow rates.

A one line jet pump can lift water about 25 feet, but if it has lost prime you'll need to prime the pump and well piping. That's why if the foot valve is leaky the pump stops delivering water. It loses prime.

 

Question: I changed the foot valve on a two line jet pump and I can not get a prime.

(Apr 11, 2015) Tom said:
I changed the foot valve on a two line jet pump and I can not get a prime. What other things should I look at.

Reply:

Tom look for a leak in the well piping or a crack or leak in the pump itself. Also look for a damaged pump impeller.

Solutions are at WATER PUMP PRIMING PROCEDURE but be sure to include looking for leaks in your well piping.

 

Question: my well collapsed, how can it be repaired?

12 Apr 2015 Denise said

My well bore has collapsed. Can this be repaired or do I have to drill a new well? [paraphrasing - Ed.]

Reply:

Denise

Sorry to read of the well collapse.

If we are talking about a drilled well with a steel well casing, it may be possible to pull the piping, re-drill enough to loosen and then pump out the debris from the collapse, then insert a repair sleeve within the collapsed well section.

Check with your local well drillers for advice to see if they agree that your well is salvageable.

(Apr 27, 2015) Anonymous said:
how mucht pice, food valve jet pump

 

Question: I am losing pressure slowly. pump runs about every 10 minutes.

(June 2, 2015) john said:
I am losing pressure slowly. pump runs about every 10 minutes.

Told it is bad leathers at bottom of well wants 1000 to replace is this sensible and ordinary??

Reply:

John that's a reasonable possibility - that the foot valve is leaking.

To understand the $1000. cost one needs to know what work is involved. The part is not expensive, but finding a well, opening it, pulling the piping from depth, and replacing the piping may be a day's work. The devil (and cost) is in the details.

Question: use a foot valve without using any well pump?

(June 23, 2015) Alex Holloway said:
My water well is on a hill about 400 ft away and about 20 ft high over my nearest faucet. Is it possible to use a foot valve in the well without using a pump

Reply:

You can probably deliver water to your building by siphonage or gravity but not at much pressure, Alex. You could consider using a booster pump and tank. Search InspectApedia for WATER PRESSURE BOOSTER PUMP to read details

 

Question: foot valve heals itself?

(July 8, 2015) Anonymous said:
Could a foot valve start working again

Reply:

Yes a foot valve that's failing may jam intermittently

 

Question: shallow well foot valve fails after being unused for years

(Oct 2, 2015) Chip said:
I have a pump that feeds off the lake. After

(Oct 16, 2015) Tony Danforth said:
If a shallow well foot valve "installed 1971" is unused for two years will it malfunction when pump is trying to get a prime?

Reply:

Tony: it's possible that an un-used foot valve might jam after sitting for a long time. You will know when you return the well to service. If the well holds prime and also pumps properly then the foot valve is working.

 

Question: using a hand pump to lift water 20 feet

(Oct 30, 2015) Matt said:
I bought a simple suction hand-pump lift approx. 20 feet.

I was going to try piping it into my existing well array which has a deep well (70ft.) submersed pump. I was wondering if, since there is a foot valve and a check valve in place, would the hand pump be able to lift water if the pipes stay primed? Thank you in advance

Reply:

I doubt your pump can lift from more than about 27 ft. If the top of water in your well is below that you'll have to have a stronger hand on your pump than I can imagine.

Furthermore, I don't assume that pumping water from one well into another is going to help the second well at all.

If water level is low and flow rate is poor in a well, sending water INTO that well from another souce is probably going to see that added water simply lost into the ground around the second well.

 

Question: pump kicks out if I run more than one faucet

(Nov 2, 2015) karen said:
if I turn on more than one faucet @ the same time the pump kick out or run my washing machine the pump kicks out, Had electricals check all is up to part

Reply:

Sounds as if your pump is overheating or motor seizing or drawing excessive current; it's time to ask for help from an electrician. Watch out for fire and shock hazards.

This doesn't sound like a foot valve problem.

 

Question: pump can't get above 20 psi

(Jan 1, 2016) keldon said:
deep well pump will only build up to 20 psi

Reply:

Probably this is not a foot valve problem but a well flow rate, piping, or pump problem. See WATER PUMP WONT STOP RUNNING to diagnose and fix the trouble.

(Jan 1, 2016) keldon said:
It was working fine and then the pressure drooped to 20 psi and wont go any higher.I turn to pump off and the pressure holds. Its a deep well two line pump'

Mod said: Keldon:

When a pump can't reach its shut-off pressure there are several possible causes - please search InspectApedia for PUMP WON'T STOP RUNNING to read some diagnostic and repair suggestions

Question: will picking up a shallow well pipe damage the leathers?

(Mar 30, 2016) Marshall said:
I have a single pipe deep water well I need to pick pipe up to change well head will this mess my leathers up

Reply:

I'm confused, Marshall, about "leathers"

I expect to find leayhers as suction gaskets in a shallow well using a hand pump, not on a deep well.

Of you mean foot valve, as discussed above, no, though if it's old I'd replace that part while the piping is pulled.

Don't forget to sanitize the well.

 

Question: periodic loss of water pressure

(June 1, 2016) Lance Buford said:
Great information. I currently have issues as well. I have a 250 ft 4 in well with a submersible pump. New breaker and breaker box, pressure switch, and Pentek controller. Once a day we lose all pressure in the house.

I go reset the breaker and I can instantly hear water filling in the tank and pressure returns to normal. I checked motor amps while running at the controller and they are within specs. I also hear air in the lines with water valved off to the house. Any ideas?

Reply:

If the breaker for your pump is tripping there is an overcurrent. That suggests a problem with the pump or its wiring, confounded by your amps check I agree.

Unless what you are re-setting is not the circuit breaker but a pump protection switch.

So we must be missing something.

I figure that if the problem were a leaky check valve or foot valve causing pressure loss that ought not cause the pump to show an overcurrent unless running dry has damaged the motor or impeller.

Check first for a piping or check valve leak by shutting water off to the house; if pressure drops there's a leak on the well side.

Check next shutting off the pump after it's fully pressurised the system. If pressure drops something in the house is leaking or running.

Question: foot valve comes off of the suction pipe

(June 2, 2016) Anonymous said:
my foot valve blow off suction pipe when pump shuts off

Reply:

Your system may have a WATER HAMMER problem - search InspectApedia for that phrase for more information. Or the connection may be bad. Just re-inserting the foot valve into the old end of an ABS well pipe won't be so reliable as the end has expanded.

Or on a very deep well you may need multiple check valves in the well riser. Typically one check valve is used for every 200 ft. (or less)

 

Question: water hammer problem on well piping

(July 17, 2016) Rick said:
I have a submersible pump well. I have a water hammer problem that started after shutting off power to the well during an extended 2 week vacation.

Every time the pump turns off, it bangs the piping around. I drained and refilled the system, checked the bladder pressure while empty, and checked all pipe clamps/supports in the crawl space and everything is in order. Could this be caused by a bad/sticking check valve at the pump?

The only thing that changed was turning the power off for 2 weeks. No plumbing changes have been made and the bladder pressure is 2 psi below cut in. I'm at a loss for next steps to troubleshoot. Great site, thanks.

Reply:

Rick,

Please search InspectApedia.com for WATER HAMMER CAUSE & CURE to read details of this problem.

Typically it's a valve that's closing suddenly combined with water velocity that causes water hammer. Like you I'm not immediately able to explain the connection with turning off power for a couple of weeks, though perhaps when power and water were restored, debris moved through the system to clog a check valve.

(July 17, 2016) Rick said:
Thanks, that is my operating theory at this point. Check valve down well has debris in it and not seating properly.

Mod said:
Keep us posted; what you learn will help other readers.

 

Question: air in well lines after changing bladder tank

(July 25, 2016) Anonymous said:
Changed bladder tank but still have air in my lines

Reply:

Other leaks can cause air in well piping as can low water in the well. Search InspectApedia for AIR DISCHARGE AT FAUCETS to read details.

This is not a foot valve problem.

 

Question: loss of water pressure when no water is used for a couple of weeks - slow foot valve or well piping leak

(Aug 25, 2016) Randy

I have a 250 ft well with submersible pump at a seasonal home. When I go there after being gone a couple of weeks there is no water in the line from the well to the house. I have a slow leak which I think is the check valve on top of the pump. The line from the house to the well is 300 ft and runs up hill.

My question is if the check valve is leaking back into the well will it pull all the water from the line to the house shut off valve assuming no other leaks in the system? The point that I check for water in the line is at the lowest point in the system.

Reply:

Indeed the leak that causes loss of prime can be at a foot valve or there can be a leak in well piping itself that permits water to leak out of the pipe and air to leak in.

 

Question: I want to pull my own well pipe

I wanna pull my own pipe out of the ground to replace the check valve what do I use to pull it up ? (Aug 30, 2016) Anonymous

Reply:

TYpically a well service co. uses a winch with a tripod, or similar structure that may be on a truck.

What you need to pull a well pipe depends largely on the total depth of the well - how much pipe needs to be pulled, and also on pipe material.

Pulling a 25 ft. ABS well pipe is no sweat and might be done by hand, but pulling a 400 foot iron pipe from a well is going to require a tripod, winch, clamps, and disassembly of pipe sections as they emerge.

 

Question: gravity feed water system without a check valve until the water level fell

I have a gravity feed water system that was installed 1949.

There was never a foot valve or check valve installed in the supply line. Never a problem until this drought year.

Now that the water is below the outlet in the well, there is very little flow due to loss of siphon.

Would a check valve work better than a foot valve as low psi required to open a check valve.

There is about a 50 drop to the house over 1000'. When the well is full, there is about 35psi at the faucet. (Sept 6, 2016) John

Reply:

A check valve or foot valve helps avoid losing prime - which in turn keeps a pump from running dry. But you've no pump. If the depth of the well permits, you may need to install a well pump.

Question: can a foot valve clog in both directions?

Can a foot valve clog where water does not drain back down but it will also not pull up water? (Oct 19, 2016) Norm

Reply: Yes

Yes, Norm. Take a look at the foot valve photos in FOOT VALVES - the home page for this topic.

Mud, debris, in the well can clog the foot valve intake openings. Usually you'd see that as a reduced inflow well before the valve clogs totally.

 

Question: Will a bad foot valve cause a loss in pressure?

Will a bad foot valve cause a loss in pressure? 3 Nov 2016 Leanne said:

Reply: No

Not likely, Leanne; the pressure in a water system is determined by the water pump, though indeed a leak in well piping, water running in a building, or poor water flow into the well can reduce the water flow rate - a condition some people refer to as water "pressure".

(Pressure, more accurately, is measured in psi while flow rate is measured in volume of water delivered per minute or gpm or lpm)

 

Question: warm well water

My well water is getting hot in the well line going to the well - (Apr 29, 2011) Anonymous

Reply:

Sounds odd unless the piping is exposed to sunlight or your water source is geothermal.

 

When the water system didn't hold pressure on the well side - traced to wrong venturi in the well pump, NOT the foot valve

We have a shallow well and a deep well for backup. Our light bulb went out and froze the deep well pump.

They are plumbed in line and the shallow well pumped dry and put sand into the whole system. We completely replaced the shallow well pump and tank and all is well there. Its the deep well we are having issues with. It would not build pressure, even after we rebuilt the head on the gould pump J5SH. It would pump lots of water after prime but would not build any pressure.

We replaced mechanical seal, front seal, diaphragm, guide vane, and impeller. No pressure, so we pulled the PVC 1 inch from the steel pipe (60 ft) and replaced the jet, and put a new foot valve on the bottom of the jet. We dug up the whole yard looking for leaks and found none.

If we let the shallow well build up pressure in the system and then shut the valve disconnecting the two, the deep well pump will still not build up any more pressure. (we have them both set to 30lbs right now) But the funny thing is, that once the system is pressurized, it does not leak down.

We left it all night and it still had 30 lbs in the morning. I screwed in a schrader valve into the bleed plug of the deep well pump and pumped 50 lbs of air into the system. NO LEAKS. Weve taken the pump apart and checked it with the drawings and everything is in correctly.

Oh, and one more thing. Right after we rebuilt the pump, the deep well built pressure for exactly two showers. The next morning, it was running continuously. All of these tests and taking the pump apart was done after it quit building pressure the second time. Any ideas? Please? We are at wits end on this one. On 2016-02-22 by Ed -

Reply by (mod) -

Ed,

You've done pretty much what I would have tried.

When the system doesn't hold pressure on the well side I think there are no leaks in piping, check valves, foot valve, pump body.

So when a pump still won't develop pressure I think that there is an impeller, seal, or voltage problem or on less common occasions an improper pump installation or setup or wrong or bad impeller or similar pump internal part.

For exmaple, sometimes a 240V pump will work at low voltage or even at 120V depending on its design, but will be weak.

I'd start by checking for proper voltage. You may need help from an electrician but I'd also check the current draw when the pump is running.

If all of those are normal - in spec - per the pump's data tag or spec sheet for that model, I have to suspect that in the re-build an o-ring or gasket was nicked or
damaged.

But before tearing it apart again, I'd give the manufacturer's tech support person a call. They know a heck of a lot more about their pumps that I do.

Followup by Ed

Well, thanks for the advice. So far we have ruled out the pump now. I just bought a brand new pump and 20 gallon pressure tank and replumbed the entire thing above ground.

It still won't build pressure. I primed it with the shallow well and got the pressure up to 35 lbs.

I turned off the shallow well and isolated it with our valve so that the deep well pump would only pump into the pressure tank and one spigot. It will now build pressure up to exactly 25 lbs and then quit.

I ran it for half an hour and still no change. It stops now at 25lbs. I guess something happened to our jet down in the well. We will pull that up tomorrow and see what went wrong.

by (mod) -

If we know the pump is good, voltage good, no piping leaks, do you think we ought to be looking more carefully at the well itself, its depth, static head, pump depth, and flow rate? If the pump rate exceeds the flow rate a pump protection device or circuit will simply recirculate water, not sending more to the building or pressure tank.

by Ed

The pump is brand new, so that is good hopefully. the voltage is correct, I took the tailpiece off and set it for the 110 that we have it wired for. I dont think there are pipe leaks unless something is getting past the leathers or possibly the outer casing.

The pipe depth is exact to the inch what it was before, it worked great for years. We live at sea level or even a foot or two below sea level and nothing changed after it froze except for the new jet and now new pump.

I think the venturi on the jet may be some of it, it is matched to the half hp motor that we just took out, and when we pull up the pipe, I am going to use the venturi that came with the pump since the replacement is a 1hp. I just really hope it isnt the casing that sprung a leak. I guess we will find out tomorrow. I'll post back to what we find. Thanks for the help!

by (mod) - Venturi size needs to match the water pump's horsepower or design flow-rate

I hadn't considered a venturi mismatch. Indeed on another question I read notes from the manufacturer pointing out that the venturi size is indeed matched to the pump horsepower. The manufacturer could probably tell us how an undersized or oversized opening shows up in flow rates, lift height, and pressure.

Triple check that there are no leaks in the piping or connectors.

by Ed - Water system now working: Pump Venturi size was the problem.

We finally have water. After all the arguments with the well guy that said the venturi size didn't matter, and the arguments with people that have "done this all their lives" all I know is this:

We pulled up the well pipe, changed the venturi to the one that came with the pump that we bought, put it all back together and primed it. Voila, water.

We've had water for a week now and no more issues. I hope this helps someone else if they ever get in the same predicament.. Ed

by (mod) -

Ed

As often the case, you bothered to "read the instructions" - something that too many installers omit, using the instructions instead, to kneel on while connecting pipes.

Certainly even my casual reading of pump installation instructions found that the venturi has to be matched to the pump.

Good going. Your findings will certainly help other readers - I'll move the discussion into the article.

 

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• CHECK VALVES, WATER SUPPLY, DRAINS, PUMPS
• FOOT VALVES - home
• WATER PUMP INTERMITTENT CYCLING
• WELL PIPING CHECK VALVES
• WELL PIPING LEAK DIAGNOSIS

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