Diagnostic questions & answers for water supply systems, well pumps, water tanks, pump controls, wells, well pumps:

These water, well, and water supply equipment frequently-asked questions answer inspection, diagnosis, and repair questions about the building water supply sources and equipment including water testing, water piping, water pumps, water wells, & water tanks.

Water System Questions & Answers - FAQs

These questions & answers were posted originally at WATER PUMPS, TANKS, TESTS, WELLS, REPAIRS - be sure to check out the diagnosis and repair advice given there.

On 2020-07-05 by Will - diagnose & fix root-clogged well or water pipes - get my old well working to water the lawn

Thanks, as I said back in the beginning, this is only for outside spigots so not really a big deal as far as it being a permanent fix. I will blow the line out in winter to prevent freezing. I'll take new pics when I run the line.

On 2020-07-05 - by (mod) -

Will

That's a reasonable temporary "fix" - ultimately you'll want to hire a ditch-witch or similar trenching tool to find and fix the leaks or replace the line.

Keep us posted.

On 2020-07-05 by Will - root clogged well or piping?

I had to give up on the underground pipe. I was able to dig out about 8 inches of the plastic pipe and had a really good view of it when I ran the well pump. The water wasn't leaking at the joint, it was still seeping out from the dirt where the pipe runs underground. I have no idea if the leak is still buried by another 6 inches or 2 feet of dirt. Either way, with the tree there, I can't get enough access.

The root between the spray bottle and the hole is about 6" thick, to give you an idea. The pitless was 2 feet below it and back under the dirt a bit more. Really hard to get to. To the right of the hole was another root that was probably 4" thick so I only had about a 15" opening to work with, down a 30" hole and across underground about another 8".

Fun.

So. Plan B.
I cut the plastic hose that goes underground, removed the brass fitting from between the pitless elbow and the black pipe (see attached) and put in another elbow so that the water goes left at the existing elbow then right through the new elbow.

I then added a short piece of plastic pipe horizontally, another elbow which now points upwards with a two foot piece of pipe attached to it to bring it to ground level. Unfortunately my phone died so I didn't get pictures of the final setup and I had to bury it so that the dirt pile didn't kill my grass.

Before I buried it I capped the new open end and turned the pump on to pressure test it for leaks.

I got a slight drip from the newly installed elbow but I can live with that....one drip every two seconds.....and it was under pressure. I wanted to tighten it further but then it would have been pointing the wrong way. I added tape but that didn't help much so I'll have to live with that drip.

So for now I have a capped pipe at ground level that I can later tap into when I run another pipe underground to my house, up over the foundation and in through the siding where the pressure switch and tank is.

On 2020-07-04 - by (mod) -

Will

I don't have a sufficiently-clear understanding of the piping arrangement, connections, location.

In general, you would have trouble blowing into a pipe that feeds water to a pressure tank and you would not be able to blow through the small tubing that conveys system pressure to the pressure control switch. Also you'd not be able to blow past a check valve against it's closed direction.

On 2020-07-03 by Will

Or could it be the tank that's causing a back pressure - the tank is definitely empty. It sounds hollow in the top and more of a deadened sound at the bottom so it seems the diaphragm is ok.

On 2020-07-03 by Will

So I should have been able to blow through that fitting ?

On 2020-07-03 - by (mod) -

I'd look for a closed valve or clogged pipe as well.

On 2020-07-03 by Will

I am trying to avoid cutting the roots. I took a couple of smaller ones out but the big ones.....nope.

Here's a question for you. I cut the pipe between my basement slab and the pressure switch and the well pumped water, not as much as the pitless produced so we know some of the volume is going somewhere - the leak underground.

Right, while I had that section of pipe that contains the pressure switch I tried to blow through it....I couldn't. Then, when I connected it all back up again, no water is coming through the pipe from the pump. Is it possible that there is a blockage at the pressure switch or beyond that causes the pump to force the water out of the leak underground ?

In the picture I've attached, you can see the pipe coming up through the slab from the well. Just out of shot is the fitting for the pressure switch. I blew in that pipe, the other side where it connects to the pressure tank was also disconnected -

I couldn't blow through it, should I be able to or does the switch need to be powered to open, ie it's default is closed so no water can flow ?
Just seems weird that before I reconnected everything I got water from that pipe in the slab but after I connected it there was none. I know the pressure switch works, or at least that it's permanently on because the pump turns on.

On 2020-07-03 - by (mod) -

Will

Sounds troublesome. You may need to trim or remove the tree. Keeping aggressive tree roots near piping invites recurrent root damage.

However when the pipes are water supply (as opposed to a septic drainfield), as they have no business leaking, you may be able to live with a repaired, not-leaking, pipe and nearby roots as long as they're not invading the well or well casing.

On 2020-07-03 by Will - roots in the way of getting to the pitless adapter on the well

I cut a few of the smaller ones but the one I need to cut is about 6" thick - my fear is that I cut one that affects how the tree is supported and it falls on my house. That wouldn't be good ;-)

On 2020-07-02 - by (mod) -

Will

Good going. I understand that, if you'll forgive a mixed metaphor, battling with your fruits can be a real bear. I would consider trying to dig some working space and use a small pruning saw to cut them away, taking care not to damage the pipe.

On 2020-07-02 2 by Will

So I dug down to the pitless adapter but there are so many huge roots in the way that I can't get access to it. Someone planted a tree right by the well and it's about 2' in diameter, the roots are 3-4 inches thick and there are a few in the way.

I was able to find where the pipe exits the casing and there's an elbow right there which directs the underground line right under the tree.

Genius.
With that said, I turned on the well and a small pool appeared by that elbow so that's where my leak is. I just can't get access to it because of all the roots. Disappointing but what can I do.
I'm going to sleep on it and have another go at digging out a big enough hole for access, if that doesn't work......

Plan B. Run a new pipe 8 " under the ground from the house to the well casing, put another pitless adapter near the top of the casing and use that instead. I can make the 8" buried pipe so I can blow it out for winter and then move the pitless adapter from it's new location to it's old one so the drop pipe won't freeze.

At the house I was going to run that 8" deep pipe up the foundation and in through the wall, then connect it inside to the rest of the mechanicals.

On 2020-06-30 - by (mod) -

Please do keep us posted as what you learn will help other readers. And when you expose a pitless adapter I'd be glad to see a photo,

you can post one for comment,

and perhaps we can comment further

On 2020-06-30 - by (mod) -

Will

No worries, no offense taken. These are simply the difficulties of trying to diagnose things by text.

On 2020-06-30 by Will

I apologize if I offended you, that was never my intention. You have always provided excellent information assisting me with projects, this site has become my "go to" for many things.
And of course the pump may not be operating at full capacity, it's been unused for at least 6 years and was filthy when I pulled it up and cleaned it.

So the water it pumped from the pitless adapter was not a "jet" but more like an open hosepipe, which seems to me to be "ok" but having no other experience in this I can only assume that this is going to be enough to supply my tank etc.

Rather than replace the pump I intend to dig down to the pitless adapter since it is only about 28" below grade.Once I'm down there I'll turn on the pump and see what leaks, if anything.

Optimisitcally, it's the connection between the pitless barb and the pipe and will be an easy fix. If it's not that I probably give up or go to plan B which is to set up a secondary line from the drop pipe to the pressure switch, 8" below grade, that I can blow out for winter. We'll see.....and I'll be sure to update this page.

On 2020-06-29 - by (mod) -

Will

I am across the world, quarantined, and can't see a thing. It's like trying to be helpful using a laproscopic approach on a building problem.

Of course the pump may be OK. I intended to warn you that a pump can be damaged: impeller damaged, clogged, failing bearing, failing motor or windings. or even simply be miswired or be getting low voltage: conditions under which the pump might turn and move some water but at below its capacity.

If the pump worked properly before I at least rule out that the wrong pump, with inadequate lift capacity, was installed.

The pump is just one of the things we consider. But as a diagnostician, in my experience, it's important, if we are to be of any use, to balance
listening to you and taking in absolutely everything you have to say, but not listening to you so completely that the inspector remote moderator or anybody else trying to help doesn't think for herself.

It's an old computer program debugging trick. If you ask me to debug your code and then insist on explaining to me exactly how your code works, I will only see what you see - we're no better off than before.

On 2020-06-29 by Will - water is pumped at least as far as the pitless adapter.

Thanks. I am confused as to how it could be the pump or the well when I've established that water is pumped at least as far as the pitless adapter.

From that point on I don't know where it goes, all I do know is that the water level in the well continues to be "pumped out" somewhere as it keeps falling while the pump is running. So the pump itself is working, surely ?

I don't mean to question your knowledge but this claim that the pump might still be the culprit is confusing to me. Same with the claim that maybe the well is leaking. How ? I get water pumped from the pump to the top of the casing, how is the well leaking ?

On 2020-06-29 - by (mod) - calculate the volume of water in the well - static head

So

165 ft. - 40 ft = let's call it 100 ft for easy calculation;

A 6-inch casing gives us about 1.5 gallons per foot, so we have 150 gallons of water in the static head at zero inflow.

STATIC HEAD, WELL DEFINITION

That page gives details on calculating the volume of a cylinder such as your well piping.

V cyl inches = 3.1416 x r2 inches x h inches

Your well pipe, if I use a nominal 1-inch ID, will hold about 1 cubic foot of water in 200 feet of pipe.
(1 cubic foot = 1728 cu. in. )

1 U.S. gallon contains 231 cubic inches

150 gallons of water = 150 x 231 = 34,650 cu. in.

So it seems to me we have, just as you thought, way more water in the entire static head than it would take just to fill up the well pipe with water.

So it does sound as if there's a leak.

If it were my well I'd see if I could find somebody with a well camera to inspect the whole well bore and well pipe before I started digging.

As your leak could be inside the well

OR

The problem could still be a damaged pump with poor lift capacity

On 2020-06-29 by Will - missing data about the well depth and static head

So, if my pipe diameter is 1.25" and the casing is 6.25" - assuming my pipe is 165' long plus another 60' underground to the house, the static level would drop somewhere around 10' to fill the pipe. I'm pretty sure it drops a lot more than that.

The total well depth is unknown, the town don't keep records back to when the house was built.
The static head fell at least an estimate 40 feet. I can't be exact, just that it feel to the point where I couldn't see it with a flash light.

The well casing is approximately 6 and a quarter inches in diameter.

The drop pipe from the pitless adapter to the pump and motor is approximately 165 feet. From the pitless adapter to the house....not sure since I don't know the path it takes underground....but I would estimate another 50-60 feet.

The drop pipe itself is approximately 1 and a quarter inches in diameter. I can't be certain of this because it's back down the well and I don't have help to pull it to measure it again.

With that said, I could see the static head at about 40 feet below ground when I disconnected the pitless adapter that was now pumping water.
I then reconnected the adapter but the water level continued falling until it was out of sight.....but with no water in the house.

So, perhaps I was just charging the underground pipe which used all the visible water in the well but when it was out of sight it also met a blockage and stopped pumping ? (Rather than my theory of pumping into a leak).

I did disconnect the pipe where it entered the basement and it produced some water, just not as much flow as was at the pitless adapter when I disconnected it. Maybe a partial blockage ?

There is no evidence of water leaking from the pitless adapter down the inside of the casing.
If the check valve was leaking wouldn't the static level rise back to somewhere close to it's starting point ?
I will check the current draw next time I'm working on it.

On 2020-06-29 - by (mod) -

I don't think you've told us the actual depth of the well - to bottom, the height to which water rises in the well the depth of the pump and from those, the static head.

Nor do we know the well's flow rate

How far did the static head fall?

What is the well casing diameter?

What is the total piping length?

What is the pipe diameter?

From those we can calculate the static head volume and the volume to fill the pipe to where you opened it.

With that data, even if we assumed a zero flow rate, we can figure out if there is probably a leak in the well or below ground.

let's do that before digging up the well line.

We can also test for well piping leaks by noting that water leaks back down into the well (though we don't know if it's a leak in piping or a leaky check valve at well bottom or pump.

You might also look at the pump motor itself. If the pump was jammed as you describe it may be that the motor itself or bearings were damaged by running the pump against that obstruction. That in turn can damage the pump or the impeller so that even if the motor runs its output is reduced.

You might also test the pump's current draw.

Our articles giving detailed advice on this topic start

at

WATER PUMP REPAIR GUIDE

On 2020-06-2 by Will - pump "works" but we don't get water

Update.
So, I was able to establish that the pump was working but since I was not getting water to the mechanicals inside the house I decided to pull the pump. It was almost completed clogged with hardened silt

so I took it apart and cleaned all of the impellers with muriatic acid before re-assembling it. Right before re-connecting the pitless adapter we turned on the pump and got a decent flow from the well. Not a jet, but a flow.

I hooked up the pitless and turned on the pump at the isolation switch and expected to hear the tank filling.......to my disappointment I couldn't hear anything at all.

Back outside, the static level of the well had dropped significantly and kept dropping until it was completely out of the sight of my flashlight. Still nothing inside.
I slept on it for a couple of days then thought maybe if I just disconnect the hose where it comes up through my basement slab on the well side of the pressure switch, maybe I can hear something from the open pipe. When I did that there was some gurgling as I loosened the clamps.

Once I got the hose off I turned the isolation switch back on and heard water filling the pipe, which then flowed from the hose, albeit nothing like the volume I saw at the pitless adapter when I had it unhooked.

All of this leads me to believe that I have a significant leak underground.

If the pump failed under load or if the pipe was blocked, why would my static level be dropping so far ? My assumption is then that the water is mostly pumping out through a leak.
The pitless is not leaking on the inside of the well pipe.

Given that the pipe is buried under my yard, about 30" deep, and that there are potentially about 50 linear feet of pipe between the well casing and the house, how would I know where to start digging ?
Are there any favorite locations that these things commonly fail ?

Is that 30" depth far enough down to avoid freezing in CT ? I guess it has to be since the well presumably worked up until around 2014 when the municipal water was connected. The house was built around 1960 so I'm going to assume the well was dug at the same time.

Any suggestions before I break out the shovel ? Can I run the pump, stop before the well dries, then let it refill and run it again - rinse and repeat - will I get a wet area in my yard even if the pipe is 30" down ?

Thanks.

On 2020-05-31 - by (mod) - pump wiring problems

230 across Line and Neutral is odd if you're in North America -

Normally we get 220 / 230 / 240 VAC by testing between two hot leads; So I'm unclear on your wiring.

Probably your "neutral" is actually a second hot lead.

Watch out: if you are not trained in safe electrical work you could be shocked or killed.

It's possible to check voltage between a supply wire and neutral or a supply wire and ground, but note the warning I just gave.

see DMMs VOMs SAFE USE OF

On 2020-05-29 by Will - pump switch works?

Thanks, I did some more testing and digging around.
I have 230 v across the live and neutral on the line side of the controller so am I safe to assume that everything is "ok" until that point ? I realize that the pressure switch may not work properly but it's currently "on" which is good enough for pump motor testing purposes, correct ? If it pumps, I'll shut it off straight away.

When I look in the controller box there are no grounds anywhere. Just the live and neutral coming in from the pressure switch and the red, yellow and black going to the pump. I opened up the well cap and can see that the wires are spliced into the wire coming from the pump.

However, from the pump there is also a ground wire that has been cut and then just taped to the side of the rest of the wires with electrical tape.
Is there a way to test the red, yellow and black where they connect to the controller to see if they are getting the right voltages when the pressure switch is "calling for water" per se ?

I checked the resistances based on some information I found online, the R, B and Y lines from the control box to the well were R-Y 18 ohms and B-Y 6.5 ohms, which the information said were within spec for a working 0.5 HP pump.

My controller states 0.5HP so I have to assume the pump is 0.5 since I can't see it. I bought the replacement capacitor for the controller....anything else I should look at before I try to run it again ?

On 2020-05-28 - by (mod) - how do I get my old well working to water the lawn?

Will

It looks to me as if that motor capacitor has leaked and failed. But I don't assume that's the only problem with the pump system.

Depending on the type of equipment you're using to detect voltage, your "sniffer" will detect the presence of an electrical wire connected at least at one end to a power source even if power is OFF to the circuit, with a stronger or different reading when the circuit is live.

Details are at VOLTS / AMPS MEASUREMENT EQUIP

So I would not assume that the problem is the control for your pump.

I am speculating from the limited information in your note that you have

- a deep well (more than 27 ft) with a submersible pump

- a pump controller that switches 120VAC or 240VAC to the pump

- a pressure control switch that activates the pump indirectly through the pump controller

- a water pressure tank

Any of these can be defective.

At ELECTRIC MOTOR TESTS

as well as in the ARTICLE INDEX, you'll find more articles on testing pumps, wiring, motors.

On 2020-05-28 1 by Will Beames

I recently moved into my home that has city water and sewer.

However, there is a well system that is not functional that I would like to use for my outside spigots.
I have not dug too deeply into this but when I switch the breaker “on” my voltage sniffer detects voltage at the line that goes down the well to the 3 wire submersible pump.

My question is, could the problem still be a bad control box and that the voltage I am detecting is not sufficient to start the pump ?

My estimate is that the pump has not been used for at least ten years and according to the installation manual that was found by the control box it was installed in 1990, it’s probably dead but I would like to see if there is a possible cheap fix rather than pulling the pump and replacing that, only to find the control was what was at fault.

A visual inspection of the control box shows that the capacitor “dot” is yellow and the capacitor, although not bulging, has leaked something that is now dried and crusty. Image attached.

I guess my question is, will I still be able to sniff voltage at the well shaft with a control box that is bad. If so, which pump wires will have voltage and which will not ?

On 2020-05-21 - by (mod) -

Ken

Particularly with a water tank that uses an internal bladder, failing to position it as recommended by the manufacturer will limit its ability to function (bladder expects to be "up" to work properly), will void the warranty, and probably shortens tank life, possibly even shortening the pump life by contributing to more frequent pump cycling than necessary.

However there are water pressure tanks designed to mount horizontally, available from Armstrong, Dayton, Flotec, Varem and other manufacturers.

Buying a duplicate of the "wrong" tank was not the best idea. If you can return it and buy a proper horizontal one you'll be better off.

On 2020-05-20 by Ken Schulte

The water tank was laying on side when I bought the house and work fine. The tank sproung a leak as it rusted at the valve intake on the tank. Purchased a new tank identical to bad one but not enough room for it to stand vertical. I keep reading not to lay them on the ground. Its not recommended.

But there is not enough space underneath trailer to stand upright. My question is besides getting another tank. Is I stand it up I can only do this with the tank at a 15 to 20 degree slant. How much will this effect the operation and the preasure of operations. Is it better to have it slanted are just laying on its side as it was with the previous tank? Thanks for any feedback.

On 2020-04-08 - by (mod) -

Let's start by close observation of the pump operation. When you say the pump has been switched off and then the noise begins, let's first confirm that the pumping has no physically moving parts when you hear the noise. When you're confident that that's so, then we can point to some possible causes such as an air leak or leaky gasket.

But before you confirm that that's so, I have to suspect a failing pump bearing in a pump that was run dry, that is without water.

On 2020-04-07 by Gerry Ewing

Once the pump shuts off, there are noises in the pump described below. The other thing about it is the gauges are spiking, almost like the pump is full of air. Has anyone seen this before?

The well on our housing park property was empty and went out, which caused all tenants and owners to lose water till it was fix for us it was 3 days. Well is fixed we now have water to the house

The Berkeley Water pump, 4 years old is now making unusual noise , loud clicking, squeaking . It was NOT there before. We know the pump makes noise to run . This starts when the pump turns off

On 2020-02-19 - by (mod) -

Usually if there's a leaky bladder you will see the tank pressure creep up above the initial setting and not actually full from that point.

Try cleaning or replacing the tube or close nipple that conducts pressure to the pressure switch or even replace the switch as well, and perhaps replace the pressure gauge

On 2020-02-19 by steve5673

Thanks for the response. - Checked the age of the tank and is 15 years old, gauge and switch were replaced at the same time. Is 15 years a good life for a tank? I do get silt out of my well, and extremely fine dark green color which I filter out after the pump tank so clogging could be the culprit.

Would you suggest a gauge change first? I was also going to measure the bladder pressure and reset to 38 psi and adjust the pressure switch to 40/60. Anything else to diagnose if it is a leaky bladder?

Not sure what you mean by the 3rd comment, I have a deep well submersible pump.

Two other comments, I noticed a very slight leak in an elbow joint on the pump side of the tank, which I would have thought would have leaked pressure not increase it. I also want to install a Cycle Stop Valve once this issue is cleared up.

On 2020-02-18 - by (mod) -

Steve

Thanks, that's really odd and interesting.

Possibilities:

- a partly-clogged pressure gauge that's responding more slowly than actual water pressure changes

- a leak in the bladder in an internal-bladder type pressure tank

- an artesian well with a leaky well spool

That slow response of the pressure control switch to pressure drop could also hint at debris clogging in the pressure sensor tube feeding the pressure control switch.

On 2020-02-18 by Steve5673

I have a well and pump tank that gradually build pressure after the pump is switched off. - After seeing a seemingly large pressure drop in my house faucets I inspected the pump tank and pressure gauge. The pressure gauge was reading 90 psi.

Opened a faucet and pressure gradually drops to 35 psi and pump contacts close. On the way down it remains at 40 psi for 30 seconds or so, but does reach 35.

Once the pump turns on pressure gradually builds and at 55 psi contacts open and pump turns off. However the pressure continues to build very slowly over two minutes to again 90 psi. I had the cover off the contact so could witness the contacts opening and closing

On 2020-01-13 - by (mod) - find the name of a water softener manufacturer

I will see what I can find. Meanwhile look to see if there are any logos or markings on the heater. Also often if you look up the patent numbers on any tags you can find the manufacturer.

On 2020-01-13 by Dean H.

Hello, Im trying to find the name of a water softener manufacturer. The serillal # is 554090, Manufacturer is 20180 4065 362. Part # = CH30579-03010203-30.

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks Dean

On 2020-01-03 - by (mod) - Screaming at a water pressure tank

Screaming at a water pressure tank is a term I've not come across, but I have some ideas of possible causes:

1. air or water moving through a small leak or opening such as a pinhole in a water tank bladder or through a valve might cause screaming sounds

2. a failing electrical motor bearing might be screaming in agony and transmitting through metal piping or other building components

3. a water pump moving air or a mixture of water and air, due to a leak in piping or due to loss of well water may make a screaming sound, again perhaps from a pump bearing or impeller assembly

I would not ignore the noise.

At NOISE / SOUND DIAGNOSIS & CURE we list sources of

SCREAMING NOISES in BUILDINGS - (excluding children and parents)

On 2020-01-03 by Shelly - awful loud screaming noise at well

We live in a 3 bed home, on a mountain side. I know our well is low as well. Our well system is at least 15 years old. We have replaced 2 pressure switches and 2 control boxes over the last 10 years.

There is a god awful loud screaming noise, somewhere between a buzzer and alarm sound, coming from our pressure tank. (We think)

The pressure gauge fluctuations are 5lb up or down when noise is occurring and that's it. When we turn the water on it stops the noise. My husband just released the valve and water trickled out slowly. He did it again 1 minute later and water shot out.

Pressure switch and gauge seen to be working fine, along with hot water heater.

We also have water hammer problems on occasions (learned the name here) it occurs when pump kicks on we believe. Only occurs in the same "area" from time to time.

Our well is 119 feet deep, and water pr min is something ridiculously low like a gallon every 10 minutes.... not 100% the exact ratio, just that the well guy said it's really lovety.

I'm wanting to know if the noise is a serious problem? Or if maybe our limited water supply is actually caused from our old equipment, or if there is something we can do a. Get rid of noise

B. Be able to have enough water for more than just a shower a day (as long as it's quick)

Thank you

On 2018-02-12 by (mod) - pump won't turn off

Mike if the pump can't reach cut-off pressure the trouble can be any of several items. Please take a look at WATER PUMP WONT STOP RUNNING
at https://inspectapedia.com/plumbing/Pump_Runs_On.php
and let me know what happens.

A problem with the pressure tank (such as a stuck bladder) would not itself cause the pump to not reach cut-off pressure unless your pressure control switch is mounted onto the tank rather than on water piping or on the pump.

On 2018-02-12 by Mike How do I get the holding tank to fill and get the pump up to at least 50psi

I have about 100ft well it is a two pipe system. I replaced the foot valve and shortened the line that went from the venture to the foot valve by ten feet. The pump has been primed and I and getting some pressure usually between 20 - 30 psi. But the psi won't get above that.

I also had water coming out of the air inlet on my holding tank. So I replaced the holding tank and set the air pressure to 28psi. The holding tank is not filling.

How do I get the holding tank to fill and get the pump up to at least 50psi. The pump seams to be working properly, it is about 3 years old and is a 3/4 horse.

On 2017-10-16 by Nichole

We have a well that is shared between 4 homes. One of our neighbors in stalled a 10,000 gallon water tank and now, the other three household are lackin in hot water and little to no water pressure. Is there something we can do to fix this problem?

On 2017-07-01 by (mod) -

Mike:

I don't quite understand the situation, but if indeed your pump is able to draw water from the well and produce normal water pressure at the pump and water pressure tank - say 20-50 psi - then if there is no water being delivered to the building the problem is more likely to be a closed valve or blocked pipe or valve or elbow between the pressure tank outlet and the rest of the building.

On 2017-07-01 by Mike day

We have a well and we replaced the line going to well and boot on end and new air tank but now it will get water to pump but wont go to house can you help me

On 2017-01-23 by (mod) -

PK88

Please post questions in just one place - we have millions of readers - multiple posts of the same inquiry really make our job harder. - Thanks - Editor

On 2017-01-23 by pk88@juno.com

Cross posted.... We share a cistern with another home on our street in Vermont. Both of our homes are 2nd homes. Our neighbors had a very old toilet that apparently ran continuously for a week and drained our spring's cistern dry. It has yet to recover. I.

Wondering if it could be struggling to refill because the temps have been below freezing.

Is there anything that can be done to assist in its recovery? This has been an active spring for over 50 years supplying these two houses as well as a third full timer ( they dug a well for their water after a drought 3 + years ago ) the spring bounced back from the summer drought and has been fine till now. Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks

On 2016-11-07 by (mod) -

Frust:

First priority: prevent accidental death: working on electrical wiring if you're not trained, moreso in wet conditions, risks electrocution. Be sure electrical power is off and that wiring is correct and un-damaged when removing and reinstalling any pump or motor.

It sounds as if you're working with a submersible pump - the pump goes in the well at the bottom of the well piping. If so, it should be self-priming when it's under water, and so you shouldn't need to prime the well piping.

If that's the case and the pump doesn't run, just hums, I suspect that wiring is incorrect or damaged or shorted - again serious risks of fatal shock hazard.

On 2016-11-07 by (mod) - can't get pump to run

Re-posting:
AUTHOR:frustrated beyond point of no return (no email)
COMMENT:

replaced my in ground pump a 1&half horse four months ago when we moved to the farm we are trying to call home,when out of the blue our pump stoped working.

so f course on a Sunday when not much is open around our aera,so with just enough time to go to town and buy another pump and try and get home to pull the no good thing as a rain is setting in.again it's all on me to make it work no money to call repairman aand a one year old son and white e to have another any day now.

so pumps pulled and new one is on while poring rain during the whole operation I stick new pump in a bucket of water to help prime the 40 feet of line hit the switch on breakerbox and nothing happens but a quiet humm.and water in bucket just calmly sits their . help please what's wrong??

On 2015-05-25 by Anonymous

any help is highly appreciate. Thanks, Richard

On 2015-05-25 by Anonymous

can a 500 liters bladder tank maintain the same pressure at discharge if I place 4 hoses on the discharge connection of the
bladder tank?

On 2015-02-26 by (mod) -

FAQs are in the article above.

Question: low yielding shallow well troubleshooting

(Mar 16, 2012) Anonymous said:

washing machine fills half way, water stops for about a mintue then comes back on full force why

(Apr 16, 2014) Angela Green said:

I know very little about the actual well components I have. I do know that we have a shallow (57 ft) well that may also be low yielding. Our well pump is less than a year old and we have two sediment filters, a ph balance tank and water softner attached to our pressure tank. This is the issue. Over the last few months we've been losing water pressure. We figured out that our filters were getting clogged.

So, we would change the main sediment filter and backwash the big one and it cleared everything up and we would have pretty good pressure again for a week at a time.

Over the last 3 weeks our pressure tank has been dropping to zero, for no apparant reason and with no warning. I replaced the pressure switch (40/60 which was there before) and everything seemed to work ok for about three days. Then, the pressure started to drop completely to zero again.

Now, when we need water, we have to turn on a faucet, almost like we're "calling" the water. we shut it the faucet back off, and wait about 15-30 minutes. When we turn the faucet back on, we get water but it's only enough to fill a bath tub and a little air sputters from the pipes, right before the water comes through.

Does this sound like a pressure tank issue, or is our well running out of water? Thank you in advance for the help! If you prefer to talk about the issue via email, I can be reached at: ang.green@ymail.com

Reply:

Angela, before we start speculating all over the place, check this old sore point: if your water system suffers from a lot of debris or sediment, often the crud will clog the tiny opening in the bottom of a pump pressure control switch, the small diameter tubing that conducts water (and pressure) to the switch, or both. It may also clog the sensor port in the bottom of a pressure gauge.

Replace those, and keep the old ones so that together we can do some exploring for clogging. And let me know if that works.

Question: cavitating well pump

(May 5, 2014) ray said:

I have a deep water well 90 ft.
Ive replace the foot valve , pump and check valve.
the pumps builds pressure very slowly 15 to 20 minutes cuts off at 50 psi
open a tap very poor flow and pressure
pump drops off to 10 psi and sounds like it is cavitation
BLADDER set at 28 psi cut in set at 30 psi
Any help at this point would be greatly appreciated

Reply:

Ray, In the ARTICLE INDEX see the article WATER PRESURE LOSS DIAGNOSIS&REPAIR

You may have a low water in well or low flow rate problem or a well piping leak. Also check line voltage and wiring for damage. A VOM on the pump circuit can determine if the pump is running dry by noting current draw.

Question: repair a collapsed well casing

(May 11, 2014) Brett Wells said:

I have a well that was 100' sudennly my jet pump pulled alot of sand in then quit pumping water. I pulled out the 60' of pipe felling a tug on the pipes for about 8' I cleaned the check valve of the sand that was packed in it I checked the depth of the well it is now at 52' so I lowered 40' of pipe in it pulled the water out to 40' and quit. Do you think my well collapsed ? or can it be repaied ? thanks

Reply:

Brett, possibly there is a casing collapse or more likely partial damage and a leak that allowed soil into the well - which means that groundwater leaks in too which means the well may not be sanitary.

Call around among well repair companies in your area to ask for a diagnostic inspection. If the damage is localized (as it often is) the well casing may be repairable using a sleeve insert.

Question: leak from a t-connection that looks like a water hammer problem

(May 30, 2014) Hugh said:

My house was built in the 1960s. I have a small water leak coming from a t-connection that connects to a vertical pipe, about 3" in diameter and about 5' high that is capped. I think its galvanized steel and it is heavy. I wanted to know what it is and is it needed? I've seen it in some homes but not in others. If its not needed, I just want to remove it.

Reply:

Hugh, I can only guess from just your note, but possibly someone was dealing with a water hammer problem. Certainly if it's clear that the top of the "Tee" was never connected to anything else that could be it.

See inspectapedia.com/plumbing/Water_Hammer_Noise.php

Question: pump shuts off for a few seconds then resumes normal flow

(July 8, 2014) RDB said:

Water from home deep well pump shuts off periodically for a few seconds then resumes normal flow. It's not a pressure tank or switch problem as this also happens when running an outdoor spigot which is upstream from the pressure tank and switch.

Reply:

RDB I'm not sure you should rule out a debris clogged pressure switch.

Question:

(July 24, 2014) Abe said:

Hello all, I just purchased a 23 years old house and I found a small ugly shade attached to the house, this shade was used to store the well water filtering system but I didn't like the shade so I removed it,

I moved the filtering system about 115 feet away from the house (inside my shop) since I moved the filtering system my pump start acting up, it cannot cut ON or OFF like it used to, it clicks multiple times before it will cut ON or OFF,

I try to adjust the pressure from the pump, electrical pressure switch and the air tank, I even added smaller pressure tank to the pump but nothing seem to be working, I am thinking about getting larger pump but not sure if that will help.

When I moved the filtering system the pump now need to do twice as much job as it used to because the supply line too have to go 115 feet to the filter and come back to the house.

(July 25, 2014) Bob said:

I have a 500 ft. well that pumps 1 gallon per minute > the well and pressure pump are located down a steep hill about a 1000 ft. from my house.

The pressure tank pumps water to two 150 gallon storage tanks and then another pump into another pressure tank and on demand into the house. The problem is air is somehow getting into the line that prevents the two storage tanks from filling.

I have no idea how the air gets into the system .I have been venting the tanks with a manual valve to solve the prblem .. I am looking for a air relieve valve that will not leak water ? I wonder if anyone else might have had experience with this issue.

Reply:

Bob

Do you think the well flow could be low enough that air is entering at the pump?

Or else look for a well piping leak or a bad snifter valve system.

Question: frequent loss of water pressure, water leaks into a hole in the ground

(Aug 8, 2014) Banner said:

My home water well loses pressure frequently. At times, water leaks into a hole in the ground which surrounds the well casing.

At other times it empties the water in the tank by blowing it out from a valve in the front center of the tank. When I empty the tank and repressurize the system it works for a while then repeats actions described above. I would sincerely appreciate any help.

Reply:

Banner,

Keying from the visible water leaks around the well casing, I'd start diagnosing this problem at our article on well piping leaks.

See

inspectapedia.com/plumbing/Well_Pipe_Leaks.php

and keep us posted.

Question: no water from submersible pump

(Aug 13, 2014) Robert said:

My problem this morning was no water from submersible pump in the ground when we bought the home 20 years ago.

I have a Franklyn solid state switch control on the wall with automatic thermal motor protection (relay?) between the pressure switch and breaker panel.

I uncovered the square D pressure switch and found power is at all 4 wires (2-blk, 2-white(screws) inside the switch, contacts are together but nothing happens when contacts are separated. Any idea what the likely issue is? The solid state controller, pressure switch or wiring to pump or YIKES the pump?

Rob
< streetdoctor2012@gmail.com >
any help would be greatly appreciated
No clicking heard,the pressure gauge is zero

Reply:

Robert

It sounds as if your pressure switch is calling for the pump to run but perphaps the separate wall relay is not turning on the pump, or it may have shut down if the pump was not finding water.

Question: clicking water pressure control switch, banging noise when pump starts

(Sept 4, 2014) Anonymous said:

switch is clisking but water is not running stedily

(Sept 17, 2014) TJ said:

Hello,
Way back in June/July I indicated I was having a problem with a 'banging' noise when my well pump kicked in. This is a submersible pump.

I had replaced the check valve inside the house just before the pressure tank, thinking it was bad.
That didn't fix it.

I finally caved and called a well guy (and probably the wrong one, cause it cost a bunch :( )

He did however correctly diagnose the issue as being the check valve that is down in the well, just above the pump.

Of course, the piping from the pitless adapter down to the pump was the old PVC /white SCH40, which he said had to be replaced with the newer,flexible black tubing.
he also replaced the pump, as it was 30+ years old and he showed me it was drawing at MAX amperage while running.

But the problem was the check valve , just above the pump down in the well.

In case anyone is interested....

days labor for two guys,
160 feet of that black tubing
new Gould 1/2 HP Submersible pump, check valve and new wire, etc,etc. $2500

Reply:

See the diagnostic suggestions and repair procedures at WATER HAMMER NOISE DIAGNOSE & CURE

Question: choosing well pump size

(Sept 22, 2014) rich said:

Hi,
I plan to put a dug well in 27 ft deep plus elevation grade of 20 ft with a distance away from house of 1000 ft how big of a pump is needed? and wire size needed? along with pipe diameter size? submersible pump single phase 230 volt

Reply:

Rich

Well pump sizing information is found at

inspectapedia.com/water/Well_Pump_Capacity.php

Question: air in plumbing lines

(Oct 13, 2014) ray said:

Looking to buy a property so I can use the water well. Well has not been used in 30 years. I had it tested. It was 110' deep. The water level was full to the top of the well head. It took 20 minutes to pump the well dry.

They checked for recovery time and the well recovered at 3 1/2 gallons an hour.

What could be done to correct the recovery time to a usable rate? Someone told me oldtimers used different technigues such as shooting a high powered rifle into well or dropping a 1/4 stick of dynamite, m80, etc. Are any of these legit or another technigue?

(Oct 13, 2014) vicky said:

My son went to take a shower and the water was real slow. went and checked the points and they were fine. we replaced them in may of 2014 but the pressuer in the tank reads 70 psi but you can hear the pump running. we lifted the points up to see if the well would shut off with the outside faucet on.

Well the water stopped flowing and sounded like it was going back into the ground like there was air in the pipes.As soon as we released the points the water started running again slowly. any ideas what it could be. waiting on the well guy to get here.

(Oct 23, 2014) Valerie said:

I have a 400' Well with a 5HP 3 Phase Sub Pump which pumps water into a 750 gallon holding tank. Ever since the pump was pulled and replace 2x this last year, I now get air in my plumbing lines in the house. As the weeks go by, it becomes worse to the point where I do the following:

1. Turn off well

2. Unplug Water Heaters

3. Turn cold water off to water heaters

4. Drain the entire house and holding tank of all water

5. Fill Holding tank and house back up.

This process works fine, but I start getting air in again within a few days and as the days turns into weeks, the problem gets worse and worse until I can't stand it anymore.

Toilets rattle when flushed (from air)

Shower sputters when you first turn it on

Sinks sputter when you first turn them on
Cloudy water in downstairs sinks that turns clear after sitting for a few minutes

Where do I start for diagnosing? Do I call a well person or a plumber?

I am a single mom working my tail off to support my children, so any help is appreciated.

Reply:

Please see the diagnosis and repair procedures
at AIR DISCHARGE at FAUCETS, FIXTURES

Question: loud bellowing noise each morning at 2AM

(Nov 5, 2014) Alice said:

The is this loud bellowing noise that last approx. 2 min and start each morning between 2:00-2:30. I don't know if it is the water conditioner, the well/pump, the water heater (which was replace 2 yrs ago)or the septic system. This has been going on for a good 4-6 months. Can you please help me.

Reply:

Alice if the noise you cite is predictable by time as you describe one should be looking for a timer-operated appliance or an occupant on a regular schedule - or something else on a timer or schedule that would thus help pinpoint the plumbing system use or the turning on or off of a plumbing appliance. Try turning off the water softener.

Question: reader likes hydrogen peroxide for water treatment

(Nov 11, 2014) Jay19482000@yahoo.com said:

Wells have several contaminents,many can be corrected by an automatic feed of
H₂0₂ fron uv light giving a liter a day for 10 cents killing virus,bacteria and
oxidizing As,Fe and all metals oxidizable.

Reply:

Hydrogen peroxide + UV may handle some but absolutely not all contaminants that may be in a water supply. It is important to test water for contaminants and to select appropriate treatment.

Question: when to adjust tank pressure by releasing excess air?

(Dec 17, 2014) Anonymous said:

I did not release enough air from new pre-charged tank. I need to lower pressure by 10 psi. do I need to empty drain tank to lower charged pressure?

Reply:

NO anon

As long as the air valve is on the tank at a point above any water line you can safely discharge air. But do so at the END of the draw down cycle so that you can accurately gauge the pre-charge pressure.

Question: sticking check valve on water supply

(Dec 20, 2014) Anonymous said:

We have a captive air tank system with submersible pump. A few days ago the check valve just before the tank stuck open allowing the water to flow back into the well.

We first realized a problem when we got a lot of air when flushing an upstairs toilet at night. The following morning it took me about a half hour to discover the water flowing back after the pump stopped.

I rapped on the valve and it then closed. Since then it seems to be working properly with pressure holding steady at 60 psi after the pumps stops.

However, now when the pumps starts you can hear air entering the tank and sometimes it seems like a larger bolus of air comes through and we now have air in all the supply lines in the house with some occasional hard knocks.

When we get water from a tap into a glass it appears really foggy in the glass until the air dissipates and then the water is crystal clear. Prior to the check valve sticking open we had no problems with the system. What could have been caused by the sticking valve that would result in the problem we now have?

Reply:

A check valve can stick from debris entering the valve or from wear and aging. I'd replace it.

(Dec 21, 2014) Anonymous said:

DanJoe- The problem I have is not with the check valve at the tank which now is operating properly. The problem is with the abundance of air we now have which seems to be coming into the system every time the pump starts. My question is why is there air being pushed into the tank ahead of the water? I'm looking for possible causes for the air.

As I stated we had no problem with the system up until a few days ago when the check valve at the tank stuck open. That valve is now working, but I'm wondering what,if anything, could have happened in the well as a result of that valve being stuck open for a short time, that is now causing air in the system.

Reply:

Anon typically there is a leak in water or well piping; the pump operation creates a vacuum or suction pressure in the line that can draw air in. Lke fictional detectives,

I'm not an enthusiast of coincidences, but it'll take some thinking or looking to determine a connection between a check valve failure and air entry. If a pump is losing prime it might indeed send a bolus of air into the water piping or tank system during the next on-cycle. The risk is that repeated running of a pump dry, even if it is ultimately able to re-prime itself, damages the bearings or impeller assembly.

(Dec 22, 2014) Anonymous said:

DanJoe- Air was getting really bad so resorted to calling the well guys this morning. They pulled the pump and found a hole in the supply line about 10' above the water level. While they had the pump out they also replaced the check valve at the pump as it didn't look like it was in very good shape. After that we opened up some faucets to drain the tank and after the water drained we had a whole lot of air blow out. Closed everything back up and turned power back on to the pump. Don't hear any more air coming in now. Still have a little spitting at the faucet but hopefully over the next few hours things will stabilize. Thanks for your replies.

Reply:

Anon

Thanks for the follow-up;

When pulling a well pump or foot valve, given that most of the cost is in that job itself, it makes perfect sense to replace the foot valve as well as any other questionable parts.

When you find a hole in well piping it's important to understand why. Sometimes torque-twisting at pump on-off cycling or other movement in plastic well piping causes leaks - something to find and fix.

Question: does building elevation affect water pressure?

(Dec 27, 2014) Brandon said:

My wife and I are looking at purchasing a home in the lower mountains. The water pressure according to a previous inspection is at 35psi. My question is does elevation effect water pressure? Is 35psi still considered low at approximately 3800ft of elevation. What are some ways to increase the water pressure? Thank you all in advance

Reply: no. Height yes, elevation no.

Brandon:

Converting 3800 ft to pressure, at 3800ft, the standard barometric pressure is 89 kPa

1 kilopascal = 0.145037738 pounds per square inch - making your 89 kPa about 12 psi.

At sea level or 0 ft. of altitude, we see 101.4 kPa or about 14.6 psi.

So at your altitude you are losing about 2 psi - not significant in water pump or water system pressure operations.

If we're talking about the elevation of the property, since the pump, pressure tank, and well will all be (usually) at the same elevation, normal pump pressure and control settings will be adequate.

If the building itself were unusually tall then we'd need to put a water tank on the roof top, use booster pumps, or take similar measures to assure adequate water pressure on upper building floors.

(Dec 31, 2014) Brandon said:

Thanks you DanDoeFriedman for the response. Its great to know that we would lose little psi and nothing much to worry about.

Reply:

Yes you should be ok.

In the pressure tank installation instructions from several companies I haven't noticed any reference to altitude but I'll look again. Perhaps at much higher altitude there are adjustment suggestions.

Question: flooded basement after replacing a water pressure tank

(Dec 29, 2014) Dennis said:

About 2 weeks ago, I had my pressure tank replaced to a larger size. No more then 3 days later we had some rain, and basement flooded. A company to help pump up some of the water kept asking us, what's different?

Well here we are still pumping water from a French drain that fills back up within hours of not using pump. The water is coming from the corner of the house where the well line is buried. Is it possible that my line was damaged when they installed the new tank. There is no puddles or sopping ground. Any advice will help. Thanks

Reply:

Dennis

Installing a pressure tank in a building basement, by itself, would not normally disturb outdoor piping nor soils, but I have certainly traced wet basements to ground water or roof spillage water finding a piping trench that directs water into a building where the pipe enters the structure.

I'd start inspecting outdoors, looking for what might direct water towards the building or towards the well trench.

I'd also look for a leak in the well piping.

Question:

(Jan 13, 2015) Anonymous said:

geothermal heat pumps using 30-well drawing 8gpm. water level is 4 feet from sur. previous well stopped up strainer with iron oxide. dug second well. sucking whole 2 inch well with no drop pipe, only 1 1/2 inch check valve in pump house. this should keep air out of the well but I still have problem every two yrs with iron oxide in the pipes and condenser coil and have to acidize and soda. Deeper well or coiled loop system?

Comment:

(Feb 10, 2015) oman okelo said:

The method you use is very helpful.

Question: Frozen Well Line troubleshooting & repair: Role of the Snifter Valve

20 Feb 2015 Anonymous said:

FROZEN WELL LINE: I am trying to diagnose why my well line intake has frozen twice in the last year. I have a submersible pump well system and at the inlet end of my air over water pressure tank, I have a check valve installed along with a snifter valve on the inlet side of the check valve.

As I understand it, once the pump completes its cycle and the check valve closes, the snifter valve is supposed to allow air to bleed into the pipe, so the excess water drains back to the well.

For the [well] line to freeze, I suppose the water has not been able to drain back, or perhaps my check valve is allowing water to leak back to the well slowly and its freezing up?

I know I can add a heat trace line to prevent freezing , but I wonder if anyone has suggestions as to what may be faulty in the first place?

Reply:

Anon:

I was wrong in my original reply to you. According to suppliers of drain-back valves, snifter valves, and dill valves, a properly-working drain-back valve and snifter valve should leave the well piping empty and protected from freezing.

At SNIFTER & DRAIN BACK VALVES I have clarified our text to make this point more clear, and I repeat your question with some additional suggestions on troubleshooting the freezing well pipes.

• Start by checking that the snifter valve (air admittance schrader valve) located right at your pressure tank is working.
• You're right that if the check valve (at the pressure tank base) is leaky, that too could lead to frozen well piping. This is easier to check.
  
  At the end of a pump-on cycle just turn off the water supply to the building right at the pressure tank (on the house side of the tank). That way even slow water use in the house such as a running toilet won't foul up our observations.
  
  Also see WELL PIPING LEAK DIAGNOSIS
• Now watch the water tank pressure gauge over 8-24 hours. If the pressure drops, there's a leak somewhere in the tank or well piping system (including that check valve). If pressure stays the same then the check valve is holding.
• When weather permits you will want to check the drainback valve - no fun as you'll have to pull the well piping. And in some cases you may need to add heating tapes or deepen the well piping run to the building.

22 Feb 2015 Anonymous said:

my well line is for sure above the frost line for at least 20 feet. The install is 20 years old, but I am a new owner so I don't have a lot of history, but if the heat line was the only solution,I would have thought it would have been installed by now.

the pipe has some slope, but not much.I think the snifter valve was added to let some air in and aide drainback to the well, but in extreme cold, maybe its not draining back very quick and freezing? ps..I do have an ACV valve on the pressure tank to regulate air volume in the tank.

Reply:

Generally when we convert from a bladder less steel tank to an internal bladder tank we remove the air inducing snifter valve from the well Line lest the tank become overloaded with air.

The air induced by the snifter valve is pushed up into the well line and water tank at subsequent pump on cycles.

On those older system the well line snifter was designed to add air to the tank but required working with not only a suitable AVC but also with an air bleeder valve on the well piping near the pressure tank.

See SNIFTER & DRAIN BACK VALVES for an explanation of these devices, how they work, where and why they are used on wells with submersible pumps and bladderless water pressure tanks.

Often a shallow well line works well for years without freezing, until in particular we find a very cold winter combined with low snow cover, or until the drain-back valve sticks or becomes clogged.

I didn't intend to suggest that heat tapes are the only fix, just a common one. Beginning

with WINTERIZE A BUILDING, this article series discusses various approaches to freeze protecting for water piping and supply equipment systems.

Question: broken pipes connected to water pressure tank, freeze damage

(Feb 2, 2014) Courtney said:

My husband and I have been living in a home that was his moms and have nothing but issue after issue. The most important one I want to take care of is the broken pipes connected to the pressure tank.

I need to find out how easy it is to replace the pipe coming from the bottom of our pressure tank (needless to say we got some super cold weather down to 9 degrees overnight and our pipes froze and burst, which is why we are having to replace them) to the rest of the pipes leading to the house and also the pipe on the top that is attached to the well pump. We have a jet pump and a shallow well if that will help at all with an answer.

Also we have a 1500 gallon holding tank that we had hooked up temp to the pipes leading into the house itself and were able to get water so I'm assuming the only pipes that froze and burst are the ones from the pressure tank itself.

I am pretty sure we just need to get some pvc pipe and fittings to replace the ones that broke during the freeze, but would like some advice on how to replace them myself and if there is anything complicated on the ones at the bottom of the pressure tank. I want to just remove the rest of the broken pieces and replace them to get the water back into the house.

Reply:

Courtney, installing plastic piping, especially where you are following the routing and bends of an existing installation, is a cut and glue operation. There are some steps to properly clean and prime the pipe ends and fittings before gluing - as you will read on the product label for the bonding glue.

Also if you search InspectApedia for these two articles you'll see some specific help

Installation Specifications, Inspection & Testing Plastic Plumbing Piping & Connectors

and

Plastic Water Piping Leak Causes & Symptoms

Question: solutions for intermittent or irregular water pump cycling on and off

(Feb 4, 2014) Anonymous said:

I have a submersible pump feeding a bladder tank. The bladder tank outlet is connected to a culligan water softening system which feeds the house.

The bladder tank is slowly losing pressure and kicks on every 15/20 minutes or so. I checked all of the water outlets and found nothing leaking.

When I turn off the bladder tank outlet and stop the flow to the house the pressure in the tank remains stable.
Could there still be problem with my tank, pump or the check valve? Or,is my problem somewhere in the house?

thanks,

--john

(Mar 12, 2014) Mark said:

The pressure switch is set at about 30-60. Normally it takes about 30 sec to cycle, (I haven't timed it). but recently the pump has also been cycling for 5 sec, when no water is being used, as at night. Is this a likely to be a defect in the pressure switch? I recently re-pressurized the bladder tank.

Reply:

John we have a diagnostic procedure for this:

see WATER PUMP INTERMITTENT CYCLING for details.

Mark,

If you search InspectApedia for

Intermittent water pump cycling -

you'll find our article titled

Intermittent Water Pump Cycling When No Water is Running, Diagnose & Cure you'll find the Intermittent pump cycling article whose link I also give above for John.

I suspect you've got water running somewhere - hopefully just a running toilet.

I don't suspect the pressure switch itself.

Question: well pump runs continuously after conversion from shallow well to deep well pump

(Jan 28, 2014) Judy said:

So my plumber replaced the well pump two days ago. We had a shallow well pump that had been with the house when we bought it. He replaced it with a deep well pump something about our elevation.

We get the water from a tank that collects the spring water on our property. It works great when we use a small amount of water such as for flushing but when taking a shower or washing dishes the pump runs and runs never getting above 30 on the gauge.

The first couple times it happened I turned the power off to the pump afraid it would overheat and the pump would stay shut off when I turned the breaker back on.

When we flush the pump comes on at 20 and shuts off at 36. He is coming over to make adjustments after the snow storm but I would appreciate any suggestions you could give me. Could it be a pressure adjustment in the pressure tank?

Reply: slow recovery rate wells vs. pressure switch setting

Judy,

When a pump runs continuously as you describe, my first guess is that the water usage rate exceeds the pump's pumping rate - which is not uncommon.

A second and different problem can be a limit in the water flow rate in the source: some pumps include a feature that will limit or even stop pump output if water level falls so low that the pump would be damaged if it continued running.

If a pressure control switch for a water pump is set above the pump's pressure capacity or too close to it, that too can cause the pump to run-on.

If you did not have these symptoms with the previous pump I would also be looking for a leak or blockage in well piping and connections.

Reader follow-up:

Thank you for answering. I did not have these symptoms with the last pump. It just took a dump with the Polar freeze we had a few weeks ago in TN. Of course now we have had this snow storm and he couldn't come over yesterday or today.

I did turn the pump off last night because it would not stop running and would not get up to the cut-off, I should say I was getting water in the house while the pump was on.

Then attempted to keep the pump house above freezing so as to hopefully not have to buy another pump. It will be off again tonight. If the water usage rate would exceed the pumping rate, would it not eventually catch up?

And if it was a pipe leaking, am I correct that I would lose pressure in the pump while it was shut off? The gauge was still about 30 this morning where it was last night.

Reply:

Smart to turn off the pump - you may thus save the motor.

If a pipe is frozen the pressure switch calls for water and turns on the pump but with a frozen well line or water pipe anywhere between well and pressure tank the pump switch is never satisfied and the pump just keeps running.

What's odd is that you are getting some water - which argues against a frozen well line.

That in turn suggests:

- damaged pump
- low voltage to the pump
- well piping leak
- water supply piping leak somewhere in or outside the building that nobody has noticed

If you think no water is running in the home and then shut off the pump and see water pressure continue to fall, either water is turned on somewhere (a running toilet for eg) or there is a leak in piping somewhere.

If you shut off water into the house and the pump keeps running but never reaches cut-off pressure, then the problem is between house and well.

Reader follow-up:

Ok now I am really confused. I shut the pump because it was running and it had been probably 20-30 minutes after taking a shower and the gauge was not going above 30. Left it off all day while I was at work, heat lamp on it as usual.

It was sunny but not above freezing. I came home, went to flush the toilet and fill the back with bottled water, and started getting water from the fill line instead.

Went out to pump house and turned the thing on just to see what would happen. The pump came on, ran and cut out at 36-38. I immediately came back in and started dripping faucet water as it is supposed to get cold again tonight.

Should it take longer than 30 minutes to come back to pressure after a shower or doing dishes? Got my fingers crossed that I can at least flush the toilets till the plumber gets here, but it would be nice to be able to take a shower too.

...

update: still doing ok coming on and going off between dripping faucet and flushing. I don't know if this would make a difference but I did notice the cut off valve was only halfway open. I did open it all the way.

Reply:

You feel confused? Geez. Imagine sitting in our lab, remote, with no view of what's going on. Invariably an expert on-site will see useful diagnostic clues or can provide information that is not obvious to a less-experienced homeowner..

But IF you seem to have gotten water running, I'd run both hot and cold at each fixture at a good clip until water runs normally - making me think we've melted partial ice that may have been in a pipe or two.

About leaving faucets dripping, it's conventional wisdom and might help, with the WARNING that a slow trickle of water down a drain can cause a building main drain to freeze, back-up or even burst if it's not below the frost line.

Operating normally, when you shut off all water in the building, the pump continues to run until the tank pressure reaches the cut-off (typically around 40 psi or 50 psi on some systems). Then it should stop. With a typical (small) home pressure tank that's just a few minutes of running, 2-4, not 30.

When a pump runs without stopping for longer, either water is on somewhere or a pipe is leaking, or the pump is damaged, or has low voltage, or the water level in the well is low, or a line is frozen or a control is jammed or a pressure sensor is not properly sensing pressure, or something else I've forgotten.

Search InspectApedia for

Water Pump Won't Stop Running Diagnosis, & Repair

to read about that problem.

Reader follow-up:

(Jan 29, 2014) Judy said:

I think we are narrowed down to something with the hot water. It was running and shutting off properly till I went and tried to turn on the hot water. Nothing! I did have hot water earlier this week.

So either a frozen line or bad heater? The gauge did maintain pressure last night when I shut it off that's what made me think no leaks. Would I still get cold water out of the hot water taps if heater was bad and not a frozen line? It' an electric one in the corner of the kitchen.

Reply: freezing water system components

If the water heater is not working but still connected and not leaking you'd get cold water out of the hot water tap at your sinks.

If the water heater is frozen you'd probably get nothing. And I'd be inspecting for burst pipes or tank and for leaks.

Watch out: exposing any tank to freezing conditions, be it a well water pressure tank, a water heater tank, or even a hot water heating system expansion tank, can damage the tank and make it unsafe.

Question: intermittent well contamination after snow-melt

(Feb 2, 2013) Carolyn said:

Is it possible that my pump is emerged to deep into the Aqua fir ? We have good clean cold water until there's a major snow melt or heavy rains.We do live within 25 feet of a natural run off for rain water. The water will clean itself up in a week or so if we drain and flush the tanks.

Reply: find and fix well casing or cap or pitless adapter leak points

Carolyn,

Finding debris in your wellwater when there is a lot of snowmelt suggests that your well casing is not sealed against surface water runoff. The result may be more than a debris problem- it may also be unsanitary.

You need a well driller or repair expert to inspect the well casing for rust damage, holes, cracks, or leaks due to a poor seal, starting at the well cap, passing over the pitless adapter, and inspecting the whole system for groundwater or surface water leak entry points. Usually those are repairable.

Question: rain catchment system combines with underground well at the pump - which valves do what?

(Jan 24, 2014) Dawn Ryan said:

We bought a house that has a rain catchment system as well as a underground well. They are ran together at the pump but we don't know what valves to turn on and off to switch from one to the other. Can u help? Or show a diagram?

Reply:

Dawn if you use the CONTACT link at page bottom to send us a sketch or photos of the system we can comment further.

Watch out:  I'd be concerned about the potability and sanitation of a water supply system that mixes well water with cistern water from rain catchment.

Rainwater running over a roof, for example, picks up whatever is in the dust and dirt that's settled on the rooftop. Our friends David and Linn in Guanajuato designed their rooftop rainwater collection system to divert the initial rainfall until rooftop dust had been washed off. You may need a water treatment system to assure potability.

...

Continue reading  at WATER PUMPS, TANKS, TESTS, WELLS, REPAIRS or select a topic from the closely-related articles below, or see the complete ARTICLE INDEX.

Or see WATER SUPPLY SYSTEM FAQs-2 - more-recently posted questions and answers about fixing a water supply system

Or see these

Article Series Contents

• WATER PUMPS, TANKS, TESTS, WELLS, REPAIRS
  • WATER CONTAMINANTS & TESTS
  • WATER PIPING, CONNTROLS, DRAINS
  • WATER PRESSURE - poor or no water pressure diagnosis & repair
  • WATER PUMPS - types of water pumps, troubleshooting & repair
  • WATER QUALITY - what's in the water
  • WATER QUANTITY - how much water can we get
  • WATER TANKS - for water systems
  • WATER TREATMENT SYSTEMS - remove contaminants
  • WELLS - types, construction, testing, troubleshooting, repairing

Suggested citation for this web page

WATER SUPPLY SYSTEM FAQs at InspectApedia.com - online encyclopedia of building & environmental inspection, testing, diagnosis, repair, & problem prevention advice.

Or see this

INDEX to RELATED ARTICLES: ARTICLE INDEX to WATER SUPPLY, PUMPS TANKS WELLS

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