Ceiling Tiles that do NOT Contain Asbestos

Asbestos free ceiling tiles or panels
Fiberglass ceiling tiles do not contain asbestos

Johns Manville Ceiling Tiles - tested as asbestos free

2020/01/13 by private email

I recently removed all of the drop ceiling tiles in my home that was built in 1967.

I don’t know when the ceiling was put in, I’ve only owned the house for a year. I didn’t even think about asbestos as I associate that more with floor tiles.

Can you please tell me if you know of these tiles containing asbestos? I can’t find any info online when I search for the patent number.

They are 2x4. I was wearing a respirator but now I’m paranoid as all hell exposing my family to this crap.

I plan on getting it tested at a lab but want to know if you have any input.

Thanks for any help, - Anonymous

Reply: don't panic, don't make dusty mess

First try not to panic us that's bad for your health too. If you didn't make a Dusty mess the risks are probably quite low. I'm traveling and working in Mexico where I'm not at my computer until tomorrow.

But you could try this: a Google Patent Search or Google Scholar search on the patent numbers and see if the patents describe an asbestos containing material. Let me know what you find.

Reader follow-up:

Wow, thank you for taking the time to reply. I searched the patent and found it was issued in February of 1969 but found no information regarding composition of material, just design.

It does describe the panels width as a “fragmentary” view. I’ve attached screen shots.

I was careful as to minimize the creation of dust (and there was a lot of mouse poop on top of panels, however the edges of the panels were very crumbly and a couple panels did break coming down. I took about 80 panels down in total.

Unfortunately the basement is a mess now, as all work stopped after my revelation. Jan 13, 2020 -

Reply:

Okay so you want to damp wipe or HEPA vacuum the dusty areas and of course take care not to track dust elsewhere or you'll need to clean that area too.

Reader follow-up: tried calling Johns Manville - they wouldn't tell me

I found this attorney website (unknown credibility and obviously cant be all inclusive) asbestos-attorney.com/ asbestos_product_brands .htm that doesn't list any ceiling tiles for Johns Manville.

I did try calling Johns Manville direct but they wouldn't tell me either way.

The guy on the phone said the patent number was of no use for ID ing the product to him and recommended that I get it tested.

I noticed someone did post the exact same patent number and very similar description (although they were 2x2 and not 2x4) on your website but I never saw a followup by the poster if they were tested for asbestos or not.

I'll be dropping off a sample at a lab tomorrow and will keep you posted.

Thanks for your help. Safe travels, 21 Jan 2020

Moderator reply

Thank you for the update Danny and do keep me posted it will certainly be helpful to others as well. You wouldn't be surprised if there was a Mansville product that used asbestos since they used asbestos in quite a few things.

I agree that the patent number won't necessarily identify the specific ceiling tile product made by Johns Manville, but the person you spoke with may not have considered carefully just what patent numbers on products can tell us.

First, the most-recent patent date for patent numbers on a product tell us the oldest that the product could possibly be. That in turn can tell us if the product was made after asbestos was no longer used in consumer products of that type.

Second the patent numbers can, by reading the actual patent disclosure, tell us if asbestos is even mentioned in the patent description - often a useful clue about the possibility of asbestos content in a product that was patented.

For example some building material patents may specifically claim that asbestos was an ingredient in the product.

Of course none of this is an assertion that your specific ceiling tiles contain asbestos as many do not.

I'm looking at your photo of the edge of the product you could at least rule out fiberglass and I don't think that I saw what looks like cellulose but I will be interested in what the lab has to say. - 21 Jan 2020

Reader follow-up: these Johns Manville ceiling tiles were tested and found "negative" for asbestos

The ceiling tile/panel was negative for asbestos. Feel free to use the pictures and share results on your website.

I also had 4 other samples done. I can share those pictures and results with you, if you’d like.

The only positive result was a floor tile that is under carpet. I’m relieved to say the least. 21 Jan 2020

Moderator reply:

When you have energy to send along the other photos and if you can, the test reports that'd be great. When published our default is to keep you anonymous, editing or blanking out report ID info as appropriate if those appear online. 21 Jan 2020

How to Identify Non-Asbestos Acoustic Ceiling Tiles by Lab Test

Photos & Lab Test Results for Acoustic Ceiling Tiles Found NOT to Contain Asbestos

Acoustic Ceiling Tile Sample No. 12:

12-inch acoustic ceiling tile, Location: Two Harbors MN, acoustic ceiling tile from a home constructed in 1960, collected ca. 2019/12/01 (by L.C.) and shown above is the full tile and just and below a closer-look at the tile edge from the back surface.

Below are photographs of this same ceiling tile under the stereo microscope in our laboratory, showing a wood-fibre like construction coated with paint on the ceiling tile's exposed surface.

and

Below is a closer look at the cellulose-like fibres visible on the tile back surface, suggesting that this may be a straight cellulose product, followed by a photo of the partly legible manufacturer's number stamp, probably a ceiling tile model number.

...

Acoustic Ceiling Tile Sample No. 13: 9-inch acoustic ceiling tile, Location: Two Harbors MN, acoustic ceiling tile from a home constructed in 1960, collected 2006/03/23 (by the author) and shown just below.

...

Below: Sample 12 ceiling tiles under the stereo microscope in our laboratory.

...

The brown wood-fibres visible even under the stereo microscope, before higher-resolution microscopy or PLM, suggest that this is a cellulose - wood-based - product.

Below: we sent both of these samples to a certified asbestos test lab for characterization and to screen for asbestos.

Report below: EMSL report on the same sample No. 012 using Asbestos Analysis of Bulk Materials via EPA 600/R-93/116 Method using Polarized Light Microscopy

The lab found for acoustic ceiling tile sample 12:

• Brown/White fibrous homogeneous material
• 90% cellulose
• 10% non-fibrous (other)
• Asbestos not detected

The lab found for our acoustic ceiling tile sample 13:

• Brown/white fibrous homogeneous material
• 95% cellulose
• 5 % non-fibrous (other)
• Asbestos not detected

• ASBESTOS TEST DESCRIPTION: PLM and TEM EPA 600/R-93/116) [PDF] 2020-01-23, used for InspectApedia.com asbestos test analysis via two methods, polarized light microscopy (low magnification stereo microscopy) and transmission electron microscopy (at about 20,000x) PLM EPA 600/R-93/116 (< 1%) & TEM EPA 600/R-93/116 (<0.01%).
  
  for samples No. 001-005 and 008-014.
• ASBESTOS TEST RESULTS SUMMARY [PDF] 2020/01-18-20, Test Report: Asbestos Analysis of Bulk Materials via EPA 600/R-93/116 Method using Polarized Light Microscopy EMSL Ord No. 042000629 2019-12-26 for samples No. 001-005 and 008-015. For samples 001-005, and 008-014
  

Sample No. 12: see details at CEILING TILE ASBESTOS IDENTIFICATION - 12-13 - 1960 acoustic ceiling tile, TH MN

Sample No. 13: see details at CEILING TILE ASBESTOS IDENTIFICATION - 12-13 - 1960 acoustic ceiling tile, TH MN

• Contact: EMSL Analytical, Inc., 200 Route 130 North, Cinnaminson, NJ 08077 USA, Tel: 856-303-2500 - Fax: 856-786-5974 - Toll Free: 800-220-3675
  Lab Hours: Mon-Friday 7AM-10PM, Saturday 8AM-5PM, Sunday On-Call.
• ASBESTOS TEST LABS in the USA - EXAMPLE REPORTS - provides fourteen example asbestos test results from EMSL

Other Asbestos-Free Acoustic & Suspended Ceiling Tile Examples, Lab Test Results, Photos

Reader comment: Lab test confirms no asbestos in a representative ceiling tile

I posted to the asbestos page 2 days ago about helping me understand my lab report.

From what I can make out it’s safe for me to work around these tiles. I started to replace light fixtures in my basement and these tiles came down while I was working.

I’ve attached the CEILING TILE ASBESTOS TEST REPORT [PDF] and appreciate the help. - Anonymous by private email 2020/09/10

This discussion was posted originally by HS at

ASBESTOS TESTING LAB LIST

Moderator reply:

Your report says that no asbestos was detected and notes that the basement ceiling material you submitted was homogeneous, tan and white, with 7.4% mineral wool.

Of course in any environmental test, EVERYTHING depends on where, when, how, under what conditions such a test was performed. For example if someone tested areas of the building outside the area that concerns you then the test would not be helpful.

Reader follow-up:

Thanks for the reply, it’s appreciated. I had the lab test just one ceiling tile and no other samples. I’m guessing it’s safe for me to work on the light fixture.

Reader comment: I live in a house built in 1954. I am worried that some of the materials in one room may contain asbestos.

The room in question appears to have been a garage carport that was enclosed a number of years after the home was built.

The ceiling in that room has acoustic tiles that resemble some of the tiles that have been known to have asbestos. I have taken a sample using the wetting methods I found on your site and elsewhere, but I wanted to check with you before I send them off to be tested.

The 12x12 floor tiles in the same room were recently covered with carpet and I never had a chance to take a sample.

The carpet was damaged by an clothing iron and I'm concerned that replacing the section of carpeting may disturb the tiles in question.

However, I'd probably just take a sample once that work was done so I guess I don't actually have a question concerning that.

I've included pictures of the ceiling. I understand that you are a paid consultant but I'm not sure if this question requires a fee. Thanks for your help! - R.N. 10 Feb 2013

Reply:

Often ceiling tiles that look like the ones in your photos do contain asbestos so your choices are to treat them assuming that they are asbestos containing or if you want to send a sample to a laboratory then you just want to select a certified asbestos testing laboratory.

Most of your ceiling, at least from the two photos, looked as if it were in good condition.

If there were a concern with fiber or dust release from the ceiling I might have suggested a coating or sealant - giving up some of the acoustic properties by painting is not such a big loss on this ceiling; or it may have already been painted. One could tell by looking for paint deposits in some of the acoustic holes in the tiles.

Certainly if you plan any demolition it makes sense to use appropriate dust control as if the material contained asbestos, not only to be safe (if you've not had testing done), but because high levels of dust can be a respiratory irritant or hazard whether or not there is asbestos present.

Reader Follow-up:

Thank you Mr. Friedman, I'll send my sample to one of those labs on Monday. I appreciate your help.
I just wanted to let you know that I had my ceiling tested and no asbestos was found. The lab was an accredited one so I trust I can assume there test to be accurate.. Thanks for your previous help!

Reply:

Thanks for the follow-up and the photos. As long as your asbestos testing lab was a certified one we can be confident in these interesting results: an indication that not all old acoustic ceiling tiles contained asbestos. Indeed some manufacturers assert that their ceiling products never did.

 

How do I test Ceiling Tiles for Asbestos?

Our InspectApedia reader asked:

A hardware store employee told me to use the lead paint test kit on one of the acoustic ceiling tiles. He said that, after all these years (since 1965) it would show positive for lead, if in fact the tiles contain asbestos. Is this true? - Deb.

Moderator Reply: visual inspection plus sample collection to send to a certified asbestos testing laboratory

Deb, a lead paint test has nothing to do with and is not capable of detecting asbestos in building products. The hardware store guy who told you to use a lead paint test to screen for asbestos was mistaken.

1. First make a visual inspection of the ceiling tile or panel. Some products can be positively identified as fiberglass or compact fiberglass - not an asbestos material, as you'll see illustrated in our photos in the next Q&A just below. Also
   
   see ASBESTOS-FREE INSULATION MATERIALS.
2. Next, contact a local certified asbestos testing lab in your area or use one of the national labs that confirms that they are certified for asbestos testing. The lab can give you specific sample collection instructions. Also
   
   see ASBESTOS REMOVAL, WETTING GUIDELINES.
   
   Typically the asbestos test makes use of polarized light microscopy, is quick, and is not expensive. The result will tell you if your ceiling product contains asbestos and if so what type of asbestos (hazard levels vary) and at what level.
3. Watch out: dust from demolition of many building products can be irritating and even harmful regardless of whether or not the material contains asbestos fibers or particles.
   
   Good dust control measures can avoid spreading dust throughout the building during material removal or remodeling, and proper personal protection can protect workers as well.
   
   

Coarse Fiber Ceiling Tiles Tested for Asbestos - None Found

Our reader said:

We just bought a home. It was updated extensively/an addition put on sometime in the 60's-70's we think.

And then again in the late 80's-early nineties. We are finding these "tiles" for lack of a better term EVERYWHERE.

From what I am finding online it looks like "wood cement acoustic tile?" We haven't disturbed it significantly yet, although we did begin to remove some wallpaper it is attached to, but then stopped when we found it.

Should this be cause for concern? Our home inspection did not cover asbestos. And we didn't realize this material could be hazardous. We are feeling a little foolish and a lot concerned, as we have two young children also.

Any info you have, or direction you could point us in would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks so much in advance, - A.M. 21 Oct 2014

We commented:

The brown colour looks to me as if this is a wood or cellulose insulating board product. Don't feel too foolish - unless you made a significant dusty mess the chances are that the dust exposure from what you've done so far is below measurement.

If you can remove the material without disturbing it do so. If it needs to be disturbed risking dust, I'd have a sample tested to be sure of its safety: the cost is around $50. U.S.

See ASBESTOS TESTING LAB LIST [Link given below] and do keep me posted on results if you have this tested.

Reader Follow-Up:

I am calling a lab in Cincinnati tomorrow morning. I will certainly let you know!

... It was NOT asbestos. - A.M. 11/11/2014

Suspended Ceiling Tile Asbestos: are these apartment ceiling tiles an asbestos hazard?

I just moved into a apartment in CA.. My lease did say that the building may have asbestos in it and it said not to mess with the ceiling tiles at all! My father says I have nothing to worry about but I'm still uneasy about the whole thing. Can you tell me if these tiles have asbestos in it? Or appear to? 2016/03/31 Edwin asked

Reply:

Some ceiling tiles contain asbestos and others don't. From your e-text and even with the photo, one cannot say for sure what's in your ceiling. But you've been warned by the building to leave the ceiling alone. Asbestos is not like a radioactive material. If it is intact, surface-sealed, and not disturbed, it's not likely to be a measurable hazard.

I do see signs of a leak in the ceiling above, as well as signs that some ceiling tiles have been replaced. From my experience it is almost impossible to remove and replace fibre-type ceiling tiles without causing at least a little fiber shedding. That's probably why the apartment management asked you to leave the ceilings alone.

To know for sure what the ceiling tiles contain you'd need to collect a small sample for analysis by an asbestos test lab. That cost is typically under $50

See ASBESTOS TESTING LAB LIST if you decide to have a test performed, and do keep me informed as what you find will surely assist other readers. You might also ask to see a copy of asbestos inspection & test reports pertaining to your apartment or building. Not all ceiling tiles contain asbestos.

Watch out: Also, I'd take care to keep an eye on workers who might do work in your apartment if that requires disturbing the ceiling. If tiles are damaged and a dusty mess is made, it needs to be cleaned up properly. Running a vacuum -cleaner that's not HEPA rated, for example, increases the level of small airborne particles.

Do metallic-flaked white perforated 12x12 ceiling tiles contain asbestos?

Do you think these 12x12 ceiling tiles with metallic sparkly flakes contain asbestos?

The house was built in 1955; we see no identifying markings on the ceiling tiles. - anonymous by private email 2017/04/12

Reply:

My advice has to be the same as we posted in the online discussion for this ceiling: from a photograph, no date, no markings, no product name or ID, we're left having to suggest that you have a sample tested.

However very faintly I see what looks like a tile edge in your photo. Take a look, if you can see the edges of the material. If you see fiberglass, that's not an asbestos product.

If the edges are a yellow paper-like material that's probably a cellulose-based material.

Anon Said:

[Because I'm worried about this ceiling] we're taking a ceiling tile sample to micro air, inc. an NVLAP registered asbestos test lab 2 hours away in Indianapolis for same-day testing ($120. U.S.).

It seems as if you are pretty confident this is NOT an asbestos tile. Is that fair to say?

Reply: probably not asbestos

Unless there are known product brand and model markings that identify a material known already to be asbestos free, (such as fiberglass or such as specific product brand labels) one cannot be absolutely confident about the asbestos content in a material from photographs of the ceiling tile.

But usually the yellow papery like material such as shown in your photo of the ceiling tile edge is cellulose - a wood product.

Making trouble for that assumption is the fact that there were some similar-looking ceiling tiles that did include asbestos, as we describe separately

at ASBESTOS CEILING TILE IDENTIFICATION.

If you have not created a dusty mess by demolition then even where a ceiling tile contains asbestos, the amount of asbestos in building air and dust from the intact, undisturbed asbestos-containing ceiling tiles would be usually between extremely-low and below the limits of detection.

Generally the best course is to leave intact asbestos-suspect ceiling, wall, or floor material alone, covering it with drywall (or flooring) to form a new surface.

When the material has already made a dusty mess or if it must be demolished, then lab testing to confirm the presence or absence of asbestos is justified.

Asbestos isn't "radioactive" - it doesn't emit harmful particles into building air when covered-over or otherwise sealed, and as the US EPA recommends, the risk of asbestos-exposure from that approach is far less than the asbestos exposure hazard caused by demolition.

Fight that panic - lest opportunists gouge you. Pretend to be calm, even if you're not.

Reader follow-up: these ceiling tiles were found to contain 98% cellulose, 2% binder.

Just got the report back. 98% cellulose, 2% binder.

the asbestos test lab report (not reproduced here) included the following data:

Notes to the table above

Notes: Concentration of greater than one (1) percent of any type of asbestos means a sample meets the EPA definition of an asbestos-containing material.

... [other report explanatory contents deleted]

... Analyst name & reviewer names deleted - Ed.

Analytical Method: EPA Method 600-M4-82-020 & EPA Method 600-R93-116 (1993)

Rule In or Out the Possibility that Ceiling Tiles Contain Asbestos

When we know absolutely nothing about a ceiling tile but someone's worried that it may contain asbestos, there are several questions that can be asked (and answered) that permit a reasonable guess that can rule out a concern the ceiling product contains asbestos.

Detailed Steps to Rule Out Asbestos in Ceiling Tiles

are found in these two articles

• ASBESTOS CEILING TILE IDENTIFICATION - 5 Easy Steps to tell if CEILING TILES are likely to contain asbestos
• DOES THIS MATERIAL CONTAIN ASBESTOS?