Some sources assert that some Armstrong brand ceiling tiles may contain asbestos:

In this article series we discuss how to recognize & handle ceiling tiles that may contain asbestos.

We describe the appearance, ingredients, years of manufacture, history, and producers of various types of ceiling tiles & coverings as an aid in determining whether or not a particular ceiling covering or tile is likely to contain asbestos.

Do Johns Manville Firedike ceiling tiles contain asbestos?

Reader Comments & Q&A on Asbestos in Johns Manville Ceiling Tiles

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Question: do Johns Manville Firedike ceiling tiles contain asbestos?

Can anyone tell me or direct me to info the Johns Manville Fire Dike ceiling tiles. My employer wont let us test them for asbestos, and yet they want us, and have had us, removing mass quantities unprotected.

We are afraid to work with these tiles but need information on the Fire Dike containing asbestos to provide our school why we do not want to work on them unprotected. attached are photos.

thanks Kim - 2021/10/22 Email: pugzilla2@yahoo.com

This is another picture of the Johns Manville Fire Dike from my previous question.

Any help would be appreciated. we are all very fearful, but most are afraid we will loose our jobs if we don't replace when told to.
Kim

Moderator reply: Firedike tiles were reported as made of mineral wool & slag (not asbestos)

@Kim,

Although a great many Johns Manville products made heavy use of asbestos,

“Firedike” is a mineral wool and slag composition used primarily as a, fire-resistant ceiling covering. - Source:

• Smith, Allen C., Early Tests of Drum Type Packagings – The Lewallen Report [PDF] SRNL-STI-2010-00465 PATRAM 2010 Poster 022, p. 3, Savannah River National Laboratory Savannah River Nuclear Solutions Aiken, South Carolina 29808 (803) 725 2943, allen.smith@srnl.doe.gov, Note:
  
  Contract No. and Disclaimer: This manuscript has been authored by Savannah River Nuclear Solutions, LLC under Contract No. DE-AC09-08SR22470 with the U.S. Department of Energy. The United States Government retains and the publisher, by accepting this article for publication, acknowledges that the United States Government retains a non-exclusive, paid-up, irrevocable, worldwide license to publish or reproduce the published form of this work, or allow others to do so, for United States Government purposes.
  
  Excerpt: The insulation materials tested were identified by their trade names, “Celotex”, “Fesco”, “Cera Foam”, “Cerafelt”, Vermiculite, and “Firedike.” “Fesco” is a noncombustible roofing insulation. It is a weaker and more brittle material that “Celotex”.
  
  “Cera Form” is an alumina-silica refractory insulating material, stable to 2300 ºF. Its thermal performance was judged to be excellent, but its strength is inadequate to assure a minimum thickness of insulation after a drop test impact. “Cerafelt” is a spun aluminasilica felt with fibers bonded by organic and inorganic binders, with a density of about 6 lb/ft3 . Its thermal performance was judged to be excellent. “
  
  Cera Form” and “Cerafelt” are registered trade names of Johns-Manville Co. “Firedike” is a mineral wool and slag composition used primarily as a, fire-resistant ceiling covering.
  
  Vermiculite is hydrous silicate, usually made by pulverizing mica. It is loose and requires separate support for the inner container.

Those are not asbestos materials.

JM made a range of fire-resistant products in their Firedike line - described in some sources we found asd a "mineral fiber tile rated as part of fire resistive assemblies" with ratings in the 1-4 hours range.

Really? Asbestos is also a mineral. And we don't know if ALL JM Firedike products were composed as described by Smith as given above. And much vermiculite and thus many vermiculite-based products may contain asbestos.

At least for products made through 1977 and possibly later Johns Manville used Firedike (or in some sources “Fire Dike”) as a trade name for mineral-fibre based fire-resistant building materials - ceiling coverings -

- Second source:

• Acoustical Materials Association Performance Acoustical Materials Performance Data Bulletin No. XXVI (1966) [PDF]

[Click to enlarge any image]

Also see VERMICULITE HISTORY & PROPERTIES

It would be prudent to treat any older ceiling of uncertain age (before 1986) and of uncertain materials as presumed to contain asbestos unless you know what it is or have had it tested fdor asbestos.

That doesn't mean it deserves panic; Such materials in good condition, un-damaged, can often be best left in place, perhaps covered over;
You should not chop, grind, saw or otherwise demolish or damage asbestos-suspect ceiling, wall, floor coverings as that would be likely to make a hazardous, asbestos-containing dust.

On 2017-04-22 8 by (mod) -

Toni,

I could not find the NYC document implied by the CAL number you gave, but the Commercial Standard CS-42-49 (class F) fire resistant standard was in some documents used to refer to cellulose-based products (that's wood fiber products) - the standard (now withdrawn) was for fiber insulating board. http://gsi.nist.gov/global/docs/vps/csfiles/cs_42-49.pdf - it doesn't deal with asbestos

If you really cannot simply install a laminate of drywall over the ceiling (best approach) it's worth the <$50. u.s. to have a sample tested. also you might want to send me some sharp photos of the ceiling tiles as well as of their backside and edges when you can obtain that view (along with the lab test result) - our email is at the page top and bottom contact link.

see https://inspectapedia.com/hazmat/asbestos_test_lab_lists.php >

On 2017-04-22 by Toni Dinkel

We have a camp built in the 50s using John's Manville flame resistant glaze coated ceiling tiles. They are off-white with brown edging.

The box says they were approved for use in New York City by the board of standards and appeals under CAL number 1207–40 SM. It also says it was flame resistant coded to meet fire test requirements , US department of commerce commercial standards CS 42-49 (class F). They need to be removed and we wanted to know if they contain asbestos.

(Mar 13, 2015) Sergio Freddson said:
This is a very thorough article! I never realized asbestos was so common in residential homes. I guess I just always assumed it was used more often in commercial buildings. I'll have to double check a few areas in my home for asbestos tiles. Thank you for your advice!

Reply:

Generally asbestos-containing materials such as ceiling tiles are safest left alone and in-place unless the material is damaged, falling down, shedding, leaving debris that can be tracked through a home or otherwise made airborne. It's ok to paint over, encapsulate, seal, or cover-over such materials if occupants prefer. Unnecessary removal is actually more likely to be hazardous than leaving the material alone.

On 2016-08-17 by (mod)

Jon for space and to permit citations I answer your question at JOHNS MANVILLE CEILING & WALL PANELS at https://inspectapedia.com/hazmat/Asbestos-in-Johns-Manville-Ceiling-Tiles.php in the article above.

If you can send me some sharp photos of the tiles/panels front, back, edge, any markings or stampings, and any packaging I can research more completely and it'd be most helpful. Find my email at the page bottom or top CONTACT link.

Daniel

On 2016-08-16 by Jon

I truly apologize for the double post,feel free to delete the bottom one:

Hi there, i recently found a 3 stacked pile(5 ft stacks) on my basement of 2x2 suspended ceiling tiles/panels. they look like the everyday ones that have on a office building ceiling. white on the facing(with 2 different sized pinholes and groves),tan on the back. the ONLY info that has stamped (in red ink) is the following:

Johns-manville corp Pat. D-213367

I have tried and tried to find ANY info about them(online)on the chances that they might contain asbestos.some of the tile look tan in the middle ,some look gray. i want to get rid of them,but BEFORE i move them,i want to make sure that they arent ACM. ANY answer will be greatly appreciated.

Do 2' x 4' Armstrong Ceiling Panels made in 1976 contain Asbestos?

Reader question:

I have a recreation room that uses 2' x 4' Armstrong Ceiling Panels made in 1976 or later. They claim to be fire retardant, and are of the Scotch Pine variety. Do they contain Asbestos? - Mark Webb 2/1/12

Reply: no, according to Armstrong, their ceiling tiles never contained asbestos. Citations provided.

Mark, unfortunately there were so many ceiling products, styles, and names that I've found it almost impossible to build a comprehensive list of asbestos and non-asbestos-containing products.

Reading opinions about asbestos-risks in ceiling tiles discussed at legal services websites and at some home inspection websites either leaves you convinced of a serious asbestos hazard, or delivered a disclaimer recommending testing, encapsulation, or other "safe" advice from inspectors.

Let's sort through the question with a bit more specific or authoritative information:

Who says ceiling tiles contain asbestos?

Suspended ceiling tiles of the 2'x2' or 2'x4' dimension, and manufactured by Armstrong, Celotex, Conwed, LoTone, and USG and made before the late 1970's are listed by several attorney-sponsored "mesothelioma websites" as often containing asbestos to add fire-resistance.

On that basis, since the age of your ceiling is in that range it would be prudent to treat it as PACM.[9]

Who says play it safe about asbestos in ceiling tiles ?

We do, for one. Some ceiling tiles have been widely enough reported to contain asbestos that using some common sense is certainly appropriate: meaning don't make a dusty mess, don't demolish a ceiling of unknown materials without taking proper precautions, and if you are faced with a significant ceiling-renovation or cleanup expense, and if you can't tell for sure by visual inspection that ceiling tiles are asbestos free, have a sample tested.

Some home inspection clubs and open-associations focus almost entirely on using a disclaimer or on giving clients advice that is safe for the inspector and that may be safe for the client, though not necessarily safe for their walled.[10]

Who says their ceiling tiles don't contain asbestos? Armstrong Corporation.

According to Armstrong Corporation, those attorneys and some home inspectors are mistaken. Armstrong commented as follows:

Our mineral fibre tiles are made from a combination of the following naturally occurring, processed and recycled materials in varying proportions depending upon the tile type: mineral wool, clay, perlite, cellulose and starch mixed together in a water based process before being cured by heat.

They are then finished with a water based paint, or laminated scrim and paint, decorative facing. All these materials are environmentally safe and our factories comply with ISO 14001.

Asbestos, in any form, is not and never has been used in the manufacture of Armstrong ceiling tiles.[8]

In general, for ceiling materials of the age you describe, for other brands and without other explicit information from the manufacturer, unless it is quite obvious by visual inspection that the materials are fiberglass or another non-asbestos material, the best answer is to be prudent: treat the material as presumed-asbestos-containing material (PACM) - which means don't make a dusty mess.

2'x4' ceiling tiles are usually drop-in panels in a suspended ceiling grid and are easily swapped out with minimal disturbance or dust if they are damaged, soiled, or need replacement.

...

Continue reading  at ASBESTOS CEILING TILE REMOVAL PROCEDURES or select a topic from the closely-related articles below, or see the complete ARTICLE INDEX.

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• ASBESTOS PRODUCING COMPANIES & TRUSTS - complete list of Johns-Manville asbestos-containing products
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• ASBESTOS TESTING LAB LIST - certified asbestos testing labs

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