Septic System Advice for Home Buyers FAQs

Index to Questions & Answers on Buying a Home With a Septic Tank

What do I need to Do or Know when Buying a House with a Septic System FAQs

Tip: See HOME BUYERS GUIDE to SEPTIC SYSTEMS

I'm closing on home purchase tomorrow and need to know about the septic system

Help!!! We are closing in the morning on a home that initially did not pass septic inspection.

The area in need of repair is the drainfield due to its lack of depth between the soil and rock bed. It is a river front property.

We only found out on the final walk through last night that, in fact, the owner and persons he knows ultimately did the repair consisting abandoning the old field and rebuilding next to the old one. Supposedly the city inspector was out a few times to view and approve the process.

He did give it a pass on 5.5.16. We are concerned that if this was not done professionally and there is a failure somehow, (and I have done a lot of research to this point to see what is the best method), that we would be stuck with an enormous bill. We are despirate at this point.

We close at 9:30am central time. I'm still awake late having tried to get as much information as possible. Any advice and who is liable if this fails on us?

Signed, Stressed to a T On 2016-05-06 by Jennifer Skarsten -

by (mod) - don't wait until the last second to try to sort out an expensive septic repair - or reserve funds for complete septic replacement

Wow Jennifer. I saw your note two days after posting. It doesn't look good to wait until the last second to try to sort out what can be an expensive repair.

"Pass/Fail" ratings you describe sound a but unclear, incomplete, and dangerous. If I were buying a home such as you describe I would

1. be sure my financial plan permitted installation of a new septic system

2. confirm with local building authorities that the home is in compliance with laws about setback distances between the river and the septic fields

In a long history of building inspections I have found that the absolute WORST "deals" when home buyers are most upset later are when they choose to rush, or allow themselves to be rushed through a sale without due diligence.

Keep me posted.

Daniel

Home owner needs help with septic system at a new house

Please help me with my septic situation on new built house (18 months), total bed area is about 145ft.(N TO S) by 30ft. (E TO W),

Upon moving in i always saw wet spots in various places and informed builder and he said that is normal when grass grows you wont see them, i wasn't happy with answer as i felt i shouldn't see wet spots but its my 1st time using septic system so i thought hes right.

After last winter finished, upon snow cleared i saw a hole near where my septic distribution box is (found later), and now i informed the builder and the city inspector, dug around and D. box OK and done more tests and found that too much earth put on top of sand bed, so they arranged to remove 4 truck loads of gravel as the sand wasn't breathing.

After completing that and they done the grading, i am still noticing the side where D. Box is that the ground is wet, not the entire bed but from the D. box to the north 10ft. by 4ft. stays wet/moist, called in city inspector/builder/installer and done test and found sand bed close to starting from perforated pipes about (6ft away)

water starting seeping after removing gravel from top of seepage bed (which is sand covered with gravel) and done test about12ft away and no water showed any trace, they took sand away to test and now i get report sand ok, but i still have same problem, and im afraid the problem will be covered under grass and the builder say its ok,

can you help, any suggestions, who else can check if the bed system is working properly or not, please answer soon as i have meeting with them again.

(The bed is (N. S.) 115ft by 30ft (which is sand covered with gravel) and then 30ft. by 30ft. (perforated pipes buried in gravel-filled trenches) sorry about long (Sept 4, 2014) kuldip

Reply:

KU

I'd like to help but am confused enough by the question that I have to say you'll be best served by an on-site expert such as an experienced septic engineer or installer.

Generally we do want to investigate wet areas: if it's due to leaking effluent where it should not be, that cause needs to be diagnosed and fixed.

if the wet area is not sewage effluent but groundwater, it is important to find its source and direct it away from the fields - lest we flood the field and thus reduce its life.

Looking for general advice on buying a home with a septic system

Looking for general advice on buying a home with a septic system, as all home is the town we are looking are septic/well.

We'll have an inspection, but is there anything the homeowner could actually do to hide an issue with either the tank or the drainfield? We understand that the drainfield can run upwards of $15,000 to replace, so we'd like to be able to identify any clues that the inspector might not notice. On 2017-11-17 21:57:11.862474 by Demitri

Advice by (mod) -

Sure, Demitri,

HOME BUYERS GUIDE to SEPTIC SYSTEMS was written specifically for your situation.

Yeah a homeowner can hide issues in many ways - coming across those crimes has informed our writing as it should also have informed your septic inspector (the tank was pumped right before a septic test, brush was piled over an effluent breakout, bleach was poured into the septic tank to bleach out dye, and even one more: septic effluent piped across the road to a drainage ditch or into a nearby stream.

Also see SEPTIC DYE TEST WARNINGS

by Demitri

Wow - thanks for all this information. It doesn't make me more comfortable, but it definitely helps to know what to look out for! At the end of the day I think our approach needs to be to assume we will need to make the repairs and bake that into our offer

. The good thing where we are is that it's a buyer's market so its possible to negotiate price.
Thanks again!

Answer by (mod) -

Demitri

Thank you for the feedback, we are in agreement. Keep in mind that a building inspector, home inspector, septic test person or a website all devoted to reducing the chances of an expensive surprise when you are buying or maintaining a home must be focused on what goes wrong and how to detect it avoided or repair it.

So in a sense it's a very one-sided presentation - I'm only talking about things that give you trouble. Another way to put it is a home inspection is there to reduce your chances of a surprised not to make a real estate sales pitch.

Nevertheless I agree that owning a home is a wonderful thing for most people both in quality of life and as an investment.

by Demitri

Thanks again - and I'm glad you helped us go into our search with our eyes wide open on this.

One more question on your first advice - can an inspector generally detect the things a homeowner might to do hide issues? Pumping the tank sounds like an easy one, the level would be too low.

The piping to a stream or drainage ditch is unconscionable to me, but you have a shot at finding that by walking the property. But bleaching the dye, any way to know they've done that?
Awesome web site and you have no idea how much your advice is appreciated!

We are buying a home with a septic tank and know nothing about it. The home looks well maintained. Should we get the septic system inspected?

We are in process of buying a home with a septic system. Your information has been quite helpful.

We know NOTHING of septic systems. I'm trying to figure out what kind of system it is, we've been told it's not aerobic so by default does that mean it's anaerobic?

We know it was pumped 7 months ago and that the owner of 3 yrs has never had any problems.

The house, built in 1986, is VERY well maintained as attested to by our home inspector. Fortunately I have a lifelong friend that lives on the same street so she's told me about her system, etc., but I'm not sure ours is the same. What concerns should we have? Should we absolutely get it inspected? I'd appreciate any advice. - Stephani S. DFW -Texas

Reply: yes, absolutely.

Stephani S DFW Texas

Even at a well maintained home it would be a mistake to assume that a buried system such as" we link to some basic information you will want to read.

You should not buy a property with a septic system without some due diligence in discovering just what is installed and what clues or tests indicate that the system is or is not likely to be functional.

There are serious health and safety risks involved as well as possibly expensive repairs needed.

In the article HOME BUYERS GUIDE to SEPTIC SYSTEMS at "Steps to Take When Buying a Home With a Septic Tank" we tell you what is recommended.

The basic approach includes asking questions, a visual inspection of the home and site, and then depending on what we learn, an escalating series of inspections or tests, depending on what is discovered at each step.

Pumping a Septic Tank Before Inspection or Home Purchase FAQs

Tip: See WHEN NOT TO PUMP A SEPTIC TANK.

And be sure to read HOME BUYERS GUIDE to SEPTIC SYSTEMS

Home sellers won't clean septic tank - says it's bad for the environment to do so

We are buying a house with a concrete two chamber septic tank buried in the garden. Access is covered by lawn. Seller has not had it cleaned out or serviced for 8 years.

We have asked for an access point, for it to be checked and emptied. They are reluctant to carry this out as they say they are very echo friendly and it doesn’t need to be touched. Can you give us some advise please. On 2018-01-24 by Mandy

Reply by (mod) - eco-friendly home sellers saying septic tanks should not be pumped are 100% wrong! Bad news for remaining life of the septic drainfield!

"Echo friendly" leaves me echolating in the dark. The claim, which probably meant to say Environment friendly or "eco-friendly" is by no means a specification of the septic system design, capacity, nor maintenance requirements.

Watch out: And they are completely wrong. And resisting your ability to inspect or test the system increases the risk that you will face unanticipated and costly septic system repair or replacement.

Failure to pump a septic tank on schedule or when needed means that solids are pushed into the septic drainfield where they block the ability of soil bacteria to process septic effluent to make it safe to discharge into the surrounding soil.

Bottom line: refusing to maintain the septic tank, including by pumping it, contaminates the environment including nearby wells, streams, ponds, etc. as well as the soil itself.

Whether or not the tank actually needs to be pumped after 8 years depends on the tank size and the level of usage - number of home occupants.

See SEPTIC TANK PUMPING SCHEDULE

I can understand that a seller doesn't want the yard of a home on the market to suffer a dug up, messed-up yard just to ease the worries of a buyer, as well as the hope that if the buyer can be dissuaded from looking a problem that might or might not actually exist wont' be discovered.

If I were a seller I'd either put in the access and permit tank inspection and service (if needed) but I would perhaps want a buyer to indemnify me if their own agent or pumping company drove in and ruined my yard, leaving the marketability of my property impaired should the present buyer bolt.

Buying a House with an Un-Used or Abandoned Septic System FAQs

Tip: See HOME BUYERS GUIDE to SEPTIC SYSTEMS

How do I figure out what sort of septic system is installed at the property I bought?

I purchased a piece of property that has a septic system on it. I found the tank but I'm not exactly sure what to make of it.

First, it does appear to be a cast tank and not a old concrete block tank. However, there's no lid on it, it's just a hole that someone put a piece of cinder block over and covered with dirt.

There was an old house (circa 1960) on the property that was demolished before my ownership, so I'm not sure if maybe the contractor who removed the old house broke the lid in the process. When I inspect the inside of the tank, there's a wall to the right with a high opening for either the solids or gray water.

Looking at the tank there's an opening molded in to the side that is not in use and I'm not sure what it is used for. I've attached an image.

Also, it looks like a d-box comes out from it on the side but it's just a plastic box (but does have an NSF.sticker) with a thin metal lid. There's ADS green striped pipe coming out of the side. Have you seen this type of setup before? On 2018-09-02 by Adam

by (mod) - Safety warning; provide a safe cover over any septic tanks, then investigate pipes around septic tank

Watch out: for an old septic tank of unknown condition, walking on or near its cover risks falling in and injury or worse, a death.

I do not assume that the septic tank is usable, both by its condition and its size. Further you can't assume that there is a usable absorption field or soakaway.

The molded but un-used side opening is probalbly a knock-out that could have been opened to provide an additional tank inlet or outlet opening.

The small diameter white plastic pipe running alongside the septic tank needs to be understood. You would not run potable water piping right next to a septic tank. The diameter is too small to be a sewer line, though it could have been an amateur drain to the septic tank for graywater, say from a laundry sink. (The diameter looks too small, though).

You need more excavation to understand the dimensions and condition of the tank and further exploration of the site to plan a usable drainfield.

by Adam - I also found this white box at the septic system and don't know what it is

Thanks so much for your comments. The tank diameter is 4.5'(W) X 12' (L) X 5' (D) which would be more than sufficient for my 1 bath use. It is very thick and solid with out cracks or defects.

I agree with your assessment of the white PVC pipe, I can't quite figure what that would be used for.

You're correct, more excavation is needed to solve that mystery.

I've attached a picture of the white box with the metal lid. Any idea is that should be the d-box? It is a box that has a National Sanitastion Foundation sticker on the side.

by (mod) -

You'll need to open the box to see if it's a D-box. Usually a D-box is rectangular as it needs to connect to multiple drainfijeld lines.

If this is a distribution box or other junction box for sewer pipes, I'm unclear why there is what looks like a small hole near the top - to the right of the NSF sticker.

See SEPTIC D-BOX INSPECTION https://inspectapedia.com/septic/Septic_D-Box_Inspection.php

Watch out: if that cover is thin rusted-out sheet metal it may be unsafe.

Buying an empty house - what should I do about the septic system?

I purchased a home in 2006.It was builted in 2003 and occupied by 3 people for a short time .The house was empty for two yrs prior to my purchase.The hse is 2600 sq ft with 3 bedrooms. I dont know the size of the tank and have never had any problems with it.

My wife and I are in our 70,s are the only occupants.Is there anything I should do at this time. At the time of purchase the bank required we take the hmw as is. On 2012-11-03 by Billy Price bmp1725@msn.com

by (mod) - You should locate the septic tank and be sure its safe, then have the system tested

Billy,

You should locate the septic tank - read SEPTIC TANK, HOW TO FIND

assure that it has a safe and secure cover,

and have the septic tank inspected and pumped - the house is nearly 10 years old

and as we can't be certain about the prior level of occupants, nor what if any septic tank maintenance they had performed (probably none from your descripton) nor tank size nor tank history, it makes sense to start from a known condition. Also that operation will give you an idea of the condition of the septic system (though incomplete)

- which in turn may help you plan for upcoming costs.

See our guide at HOME BUYERS GUIDE to SEPTIC SYSTEMS

For an abandoned property I'm buying, can I get septic installation permits and reports at the county health or building department?

I'd like to know whether I can go down to the county health department (courthouse?) to get a copy of any permits or inspection reports that might have been filed on a foreclosed property I am buying.

The property was abandoned, and I am not in touch with the previous owner; the bank winterized the well (and, I assume, the septic system), but knows next to nothing about the system. On 2013-03-28 y Mary1

by (mod) - Maybe

Mary1

You can and should ask your local building and health department for any records they have on hand concerning your property's septic system. If the local officials won't give those documents to a stranger then you'll have to ask the property owner to obtain them for you - usually that's done through your attorney.

But do not count on those documents being the whole story of the condition of the septic system.

If you cannot test the system before buying the property, though there may still be some visual clues, you have no choice but to plan, financially, for costly septic repair or replacement.

How do we test an abandoned or un-used septic system

How do you/I test an old septic system that has been dry for several years. (Sept 24, 2014) R.W.

Reply: cannot be done reliably - reserve funds for repair or replacement

You cannot reliably test the drainfield of an un-used septic system unless the septic tank is first full (as it might be) - so it's necessary to first open and inspect the tank.

At that time there is additional and very important information that may be visible by looking at the conditions in the tank such as its baffles and such as signs of abnormal tank levels.

Details are at ABANDONED or NEW SEPTIC SYSTEM TESTS

Septic Inspection / Tests Before Purchase FAQs

Tip: See HOME BUYERS GUIDE to SEPTIC SYSTEMS

I'm buying a house with an old drainfield; what are the risks if it passes inspection?

I am looking at a house that has the original 25 year old effluent system and a newer 10 year old tank. Let's assume that the system passes current inspection. What are the chances that I'll have to replace the expensive effluent system during the next 10 years? 15 years? thank you On 2013-01-14 by Adam

by (mod) - The *predictable* remaining life of a drainfield in the case you describe is small

Adam,

The *predictable* remaining life of a drainfield in the case you describe is small for several reasons

- its age

- the fact that the tank was replaced (which very often means that before the new tank was installed the old one failed, thus almost always pushing solids into the drainfield

- the fact that you know (or have indicated) absolutely nothing else about the site

In fact a competent visual inspection and perhaps some simple testing could give a much better picture of the system. There are individual site features that make a very big difference in drainfield life as well as other facts such as maintenance history.

Water running into the drainfield, soil properties, septic tank pumping history, history of usage levels, what people flushed into drains, a high-salt water softener, etc. make so much difference in drainfield life that without some of this information, and absent an immediate indication of failure, a specific age prediction such as you ask would, unfortunately just be so unreliable as to be nonsense.

Be sure to read SEPTIC DRAINFIELD LIFE

What's the best type of septic inspection: camera or tank pump-out?

Which type of inspection is preferable? one that uses a camera to examine the pipes, etc. Or one that cleans out the tank and then visually inspects things?

They are about the same price. (the tank was pumped out a year ago and need not be pumped for another 3 years) (Sept 24, 2014) Anonymous

Reply:

Anon the two types of septic inspection you describe are very different and give different information. A scoping camera gives conditions of pipes but nothing direct about condition of the tank, baffles, D-box, nor drainfield.

An "inspection" by either means that looks only at the tank is heading you for trouble as only a part of the system - the least troublesome part - is being inspsected.

See HOME BUYER'S SEPTIC TEST

We are buying a home with a septic tank and know nothing about it. The home looks well maintained. Should we get the septic system inspected?

We are in process of buying a home with a septic system. Your information has been quite helpful. We know NOTHING of septic systems. I'm trying to figure out what kind of system it is, we've been told it's not aerobic so by default does that mean it's anaerobic?

We know it was pumped 7 months ago and that the owner of 3 yrs has never had any problems. The house, built in 1986, is VERY well maintained as attested to by our home inspector. Fortunately I have a lifelong friend that lives on the same street so she's told me about her system, etc., but I'm not sure ours is the same. What concerns should we have? Should we absolutely get it inspected? I'd appreciate any advice. - Stephani S. DFW -Texas

Reply: yes, absolutely.

Stephani S DFW Texas

Even at a well maintained home it would be a mistake to assume that a buried system such as" we link to some basic information you will want to read.

You should not buy a property with a septic system without some due diligence in discovering just what is installed and what clues or tests indicate that the system is or is not likely to be functional.

There are serious health and safety risks involved as well as possibly expensive repairs needed.

In the article above, at "Steps to Take When Buying a Home With a Septic Tank" we tell you what is recommended.

The basic approach includes asking questions, a visual inspection of the home and site, and then depending on what we learn, an escalating series of inspections or tests, depending on what is discovered at each step.

There are septic smells at a property I'm buying. The realtor says they're going to replace the distribution box, pump the septic tank, and put in a "bio kit" - will anything good come from this?

I'm trying to buy a home in Vt. And I noticed a septic smell while walking around the property as I look down there's a stream of black water running. The owner called his septic people to check out the problem. This is the response from his realtor.

"They replaced the dbox, pumped the field and put in a bio kit. They will come back in a week to see how its doing!" I'm not sure what I should view this. Anything good from this kind Sir? - Jack Garlin

Reply: not much.

Jack, the realtor is someone with a conflict of interest and not a person on whom you can rely to protect your interest, money nor safety when you are the buyer of a home. Even a well intentioned real estate agent in the case you describe will not know the condition of the system, will not warrant you at all about the future usability of the system, and is not held legally responsible for property conditions.

Pumping the septic tank gives the septic drainfield a few days off from having to absorb septic effluent. That might, for a few days, diminish the septic odor - fooling you into thinking everything is OK.

Fixing a bad distribution box is a good repair in that if the old box was routing all of the septic effluent into say (making this up as an example) just one septic drainfield trench, leaving three other trenches un-used, the overloaded trench will quickly fail.

By routing effluent into all of the septic drainfield trenches we reduce the load on the bad trench and might get more life out of the system. It depends ... on the age of the system, soil conditions, and condition of the other trenches. You could ask the septic contractor what they found and what they recommend.

The contractor won't want to make the realtor and seller mad by ratting them out, but you could point out that you are moving in and would be his new customer.

Putting in a "bio kit" on a failed septic system is sort of a pig-in-a-poke. I am guessing that someone is adding an aerator to an existing septic tank.

The aerator can improve the level of treatment of the septic effluent, thus reducing (but not eliminating) the degree to which effluent discharged from the tank contaminates the environment. And depending on septic tank design, the aerator might, by keeping septic tank contents agitated in a single compartment tank, actually speed the destruction of the drainfield by pushing solids out into the drainfield.

If the present septic system is in failure mode - that is, effluent is not being handled by the drainfield, symptoms include odors and smells on the property. Even if the odors are diminished by some means, by no means has that "fixed" the failed drainfield. Expensive repairs are likely to be in your near future.

Septic System Failure - End of Life Not Detected at Septic Inspection FAQs

Tip: Be sure to read

• HOME BUYERS GUIDE to SEPTIC SYSTEMS
• HOME SELLERS GUIDE TO SEPTIC SYSTEMS

See our complete guide at SEPTIC TANK INSPECTION PROCEDURE - home

Also see the description of a proper septic system inspection and test at SEPTIC DYE TEST PROCEDURE - testing septic system function.

Also see the different types of septic sytem inspections described at SEPTIC SYSTEM INSPECTION LEVELS

And see these SEPTIC INSPECTION & TEST LAWS & PROCEDURES

At home purchase the septic tank was pumped but the drainfield not inspected; now it's wet. Is that a problem? Expensive?

We purchased a home in May that was built in 1965. The septic tank was inspected and pumped, but the leach field was not inspected.

We knew where the leach field was, and that area was always greener during the summer than the rest of the meadow, but we had no surface water.

One of the neighbors did tell us that the area 'gets swampy' sometimes. And then he said "but it's OK". We are now at the end of September, after having a few rains, and we notice there is almost constant surface water in a low part of the leach field. The water has no odor that we can detect, but it did look like it had an oil film on top of it.

Do we or don't we have a problem? Because it has no odor, we're wondering if it's just because the rain has puddled. But with the oil film, we aren't sure.

Is there an 'easy' and/or 'inexpensive' solution? Can we just bulldoze some additional dirt on top of it? We really don't want to have to dig it up ourselves (yuck!) in order to install some up-to-date leach field solution. On 2017-09-27 by Loretta

by (mod) - If the septic area gets swampy you have a problem, possibly costly

If the septic area gets swampy you have a problem - a failed septic field. A septic field that is wet cannot treat the sewage effluent.

That means that sewage effluent, inadequately treated, is discharging contaminants and pathogens into the environment, the ground, the nearby aquifer, lakes, streams, wells.

If the water source is coming from outside the septic fields then the fields still are not working and cannot work when wet or "under water". But in this case sometimes you can fix the field by installing an intercept drain to keep surface or subsurface runoff away from the soakbed area.

Adding dirt atop a wet drainfield hides the problem but doesn't fix it - unfortunately. That's because burying the field under more soil cuts the oxygen available to the existing installation - no oxygen means no aerobic bacteria means that a substantial portion of the effluent treatment no longer takes place.

Septic System Failure Shows Up After Purchase FAQs

Tip: See SEPTIC DRAINFIELD FAILURE DIAGNOSIS

Septic system failed a month after the home was bought - same contractor who tested it now says it needs replacement

Hello,
My son just bought his 1st home 1 month ago last thing done was septic inspected sellers responsibility. It passed. One month later (currently) huge problems $1700 so far, no end in sight and no diagnose and I might add, this is the same septic co that did the original inspection On 2017-11-21 by L. Evans

Answer by (mod) -

L.

Please forgive me for beginning with a gripe, but due diligence on the part of a home buyer means hiring and paying for your own tests and inspections.

Having the seller perform such a task is innately creating a conflict of interest.

At purchase our septic system passed inspection but when it rains the yard floods

We puchased a house last year and the septic passed inspection. However when it rains alot we get a huge puddle accross the center of our back yard.

It usually takes days to dry up. Could this mean there is a issue with the drainage. The back yard is pretty level On 2012-04-18 by T

by (mod) - if your drainfield is flooded

T I don't have the full picture, but certainly if your drainfield is flooded, during that time it is not processing septic effluent effectively. Since you say the puddle lasts for days, you will want to take steps to direct surface runoff away from, not onto, the drainfield - that should help.

If the puddle appears even so, then either there is subsurface water also running into the drainfield (you will need to provide an intercept drain to keep it away) or the field is in failure. Might be worth a septic dye test.

Neighbor's septic is flooding a property I just bought

i purchased a house and 4 acres of land my neighbors septic system is flooding my property and finally got him to come take a look at what i was talking about and he scrapped away the surface soil less than six inch's to revile nothing more than the end of a 4 in corrugated pipe like you would attach to a drain spout from your gutters. what should i do ? On 2013-03-24 by Coty

Answer by (mod) -

Coty,

If your own septic system were sending septic effluent off of your property, in most jurisdictions your building or health department would consider that a local building or health code violation. In fact even if you were not sending effluent off of your property, discharging it to the surface of the soil is also improper and illegal.

If you have asked your neighbor to correct the problem and he refuses, unfortunately you don't have much recourse without getting your health or building departments involved.

Detailed suggestions are at NEIGHBORING SEPTIC SYSTEM PROBLEMS

 

Septic System Failure Signs Before Home Purchase FAQs

Tip: See SEPTIC DRAINFIELD FAILURE DIAGNOSIS

Also see AEROBIC ATU SEPTIC FAILURE RATES, COSTS

My septic inspector found evidence of a partly flooded drainfield - is that a septic failure?

We are buying a home and the inspector said there are 5in of water in vent pipe in seepage area. does this mean it's failing? - Lady

Reply: Yes.

Lady I'm guessing you mean that an inspection pipe in a septic drainfield is showing five inches of water.

Standing water in the drainfield would be evidence of drainfield failure. Now there could be a surge of water if a test was being run, but if the level was remaining static in the standpipe, the system is flooded and in failure. In my opinion.

Follow-up comment:

Thanks for your response! I can only hope you read this one soon. Well, we are having quite a dilemma.

The letter says that it has capacity of 1000 gal, and was at normal level, baffles are intact (although bill says baffle replaced), "vent pipe in seepage area had 5 inches of water in it," "ground at end of leach field had fractures between the trees...cause unknown." No drain back from leach field.

No ponding at this time. "Operating under saturated conditions." "was a time several years ago where saturation on surface."

Here's my concern. I don't know a ton about septic systems (although after this week, I could site laws in 5 states and name each component to you).

But, everything I see is saturated=failing. And, if it failed it past (saturation on surface) and hasn't been fixed (it hasn't), and is currently saturated but operating...is that really right?

To me, that would be a failing system or a defect in the septic. Saturated + pooling in past + dry weather/saturated now.

But, their realtor and our realtor just want the letter to be "reworded" to sound better. When I spoke with the technician who did the review, he said, I should be good to have no back up in house, but it could be a problem if I ever needed a permit and health dept came out.

My thought would be to have a 2nd opinion, but my realtor feels the test passed. I also feel like the history of previous surface saturation would qualify as a defect, which wasn't on disclosure.

Can you help me understand what I am missing? I really like the house and don't want to be a pain, but it isn't adding up?

Reply:

Lady a few clues are evident from your comments.

"baffle replaced" - the previous baffle, whose job is to keep solids in the septic tank, had failed enough to need replacement. By the time it's noticed and repaired, solids have most likely been flowing to the drainfield, adding to clogging and reducing its life.

"normal level" and "no drain back in the tank" - mean that at that MOMENT the drainfield was not so saturated that the effluent is so high that it flows backwards into the septic tank during pumpout. That does not, however, mean that no drainfield areas could be saturated or at end of life.

"Operating under saturated conditions" means the drainfield had been seen in failure mode. We don't know if the problem was local surface waters and runoff, groundwater, or purely septic effluent.

That distinction will be significant in deciding what repairs are needed - we need to direct groundwater and surface runoff away from a drainfield. And when a drainfield is "saturated" it is not working, not treating effluent, and is contaminating the environment.

No ponding "at this time" is a safe way of having made the realtor happy but covered the inspector for liability. No ponding could be because of little or no use, tank pumped out to give a respite, the season of very hot dry weather, or other events that temporarily make the fields look as if they're working.

With the history that you report, the septic system has failed in the past, and as no one has reported to you that any substantial repairs (like new drainfield or found and repaired broken drainfield piping) have been performed, it has NO predictable future life.

(Without actually digging up more components we don't know exactly what's wrong - a broken pipe is a minor repair compared with replacing a drainfield. The latter sounds much more likely from your description)

Your plan to buy the home would be irresponsible if it didn't include funds to repair or replace the septic system.

Comment:

Thank you for making me feel sane. And, yes, the system had been pumped for the test. I am glad to know that I'm at least asking the right questions. We had planned to talk with the county tomorrow to find out more, but at least I don't feel like such an idiot now.

I keep feeling like people think I'm making this up to complain about it, and I'm not sure why it's a surprise to anyone, especially since it was built in 1972.

Reply:

You sound sane to me, but I add that most people don't buy a new home often, so they are at a bit of an experience disadvantage vis-a-vis other players in the transaction such as real estate agents, attorneys, inspectors who have other interests.

Real estate is a tough business; when I've witnessed court disputes the judge always has taken the position that because a buyer knows it's a big financial decision with other parties who have conflicting interests (realtors, seller, some attorneys, and some home inspectors), the judge feels that the responsibility for due diligence is on the buyer, and the judge won't accept an argument that you relied on "puffing" or obfuscation by anybody else.

I'm not advising not to buy the property - it would be very rare for me to inspect a property and find that there was absolutely nothing in need of attention. But buy with a better picture of the real cost: purchase price plus necessary repairs, and proceed accordingly.

Visual inspection showed the ground over the septic tank and leach field was caved in.

We are looking at buying a house with a septic system. The system was put in in 2006 or 2007. We had the system inspected. The inspector did a 20 minute flood test in conjunction with a dye test. the system did not show any signs of failure during the test.

Visual inspection showed the ground over the septic tank and leach field was caved in.

The stand pipe was situated at an angle. The inspector stated the lid or top could be damaged.

We requested the current owners to replace the tank. The home owners stated they would not replace the system and they have not had a problem with the system. they also stated the person who put the system in put it in at an angle and did not back fill properly with dirt. Not sure what to do

Would the dye test show damage to the tank. On 2012-05-17 by Cassie Wilhelm

by (mod) - "replacing the septic tank" is jumping the gun

Cassie,

"replacing the tank" is jumping the gun before you know exactly what the system needs. Beware - even if the tank were replaced, you could be looking at a new drainfield.

A "20 minute flood test" is not very descriptive - it's not the number of minutes, it's the number of gallons of water that matters, as well as many site observations.

The report of the owners of "no problems" is worth little to you - it's no guarantee about what you will find.

Dye tests do not necessarily show septic tank damage; a dye test stains water that breaks out at the surface - confirming that it came from the septic system.

House failed septic test - was it wrong to test in wet weather?

We've had record rain in our area this summer, and we are selling our house. Buyers had a septic inspection and it failed. Is it advisable to test a septic during such wet weather? On 2018-10-16 by MJRJ

by (mod) - It's proper to test septic system in wet weather

Sure it's advisable to test a septic system in wet weather IF you want to know if it works in wet weather; the implication of a demand to test an existing septic only in dry weather is a requirement that nobody flushes a toilet, runs a washer or takes a shower when it's wet outside.

You could consider it a stress-test, but a perfectly-fair one.

That does not necessarily mean it's time for a new drainfield. You need a better problem diagnosis.

Wet weather can

- flood a septic tank if surface runoff leaks into the septic tank

- flood a drainfield by surface runoff

both of those can often be cured by redirecting surface runoff away from the septic components

Beware however: a septic system can fail in wet weather because the drainfield is saturated and in failure or close to failure; consider it an early warning.

We're buying a house withb a 300 gallon septic tank

We are looking at a property with a very old septic system (probably 1950). It only have a 300 gallon tank.

There are been two dye tests completed. The first was in March of 2011. The inspector did not pass or fail the system, but said that they ran water for 30 minutes through the system and observed dye in the fields below the tank.

The second inspection was done by another company in July of 2011 and it stated that they ran 300 gallons through the system and there was no malfunction evidenced by surface discharge at that time. Is it possible to have one bad test followed by a good test? Debbie On 2012-05-09 by Debbie

by (mod) - your 300 gallon septic tank is much much smaller than current standards = failed drainfield

Debbie

Watch out: your 300 gallon septic tank is much much smaller than current standards accept just about anywhere - which also makes one suspect the leach field is questionable, as a 300 g. tank would in most cases need pumping several times a year - more than most owners will do. It's all symptomatic of a very marginal system.

The first dye test failed the system as it should have - even with no dye.

The second test - I don't have much confidence unless someone did something. For example if the tank was pumped right before the 300 g was put into the system, the test did nothing but fill the septic tank. It was not a test.

We're Buying a house with a cracked septic tank

The house we are looking at had a crack in the septic tank and the out going pipe to the D box was crushed. So the water was not running completely into the leech fields.

They could not run the camera down the pipe because of the condition of the pipe. I have added a photo of the tank and pipe at the time of the inspection.

The inspector walked out to the leech fields and could not see and divots in the ground or bad smells.

Since then the Septic tank has been replaced along with the out going pipe to the D box.

My question is, should I have the septic system inspected again? On 2018-10-19 by Jason

by (mod) - crack in septic tank and crushed effluent pipe: need more information

Jason:

You're showing what may be a crack in a septic tank baffle but I can't make out what I'm seeing - I'd need more photos showing more of the situation.

If that crack is entirely inside the tank and only is at the tank baffle I doubt that this is major damage.

On the other hand if sewage is leaking out of the septic tank it needs repair or replacement.

Usually repair is possible.

I agree that a more-expert inspection is needed to assess the tank or baffle damage, repair/replacement of crushed D-box pipe, and to inspect the conditions in the D box itself.

Take a look at CONCRETE SEPTIC TANK REPAIRS

 

My septic inspector found evidence of a partly flooded drainfield - is that a septic failure?

We are buying a home and the inspector said there are 5in of water in vent pipe in seepage area. does this mean it's failing? - Lady

Reply: Yes.

Lady I'm guessing you mean that an inspection pipe in a septic drainfield is showing five inches of water. Standing water in the drainfield would be evidence of drainfield failure. Now there could be a surge of water if a test was being run, but if the level was remaining static in the standpipe, the system is flooded and in failure. In my opinion.

Follow-up comment:

Thanks for your response! I can only hope you read this one soon. Well, we are having quite a dilemma. The letter says that it has capacity of 1000 gal, and was at normal level, baffles are intact (although bill says baffle replaced), "vent pipe in seepage area had 5 inches of water in it," "ground at end of leach field had fractures between the trees...cause unknown."

No drain back from leach field. No ponding at this time. "Operating under saturated conditions." "was a time several years ago where saturation on surface."

Here's my concern. I don't know a ton about septic systems (although after this week, I could site laws in 5 states and name each component to you). But, everything I see is saturated=failing. And, if it failed it past (saturation on surface) and hasn't been fixed (it hasn't), and is currently saturated but operating...is that really right?

To me, that would be a failing system or a defect in the septic. Saturated + pooling in past + dry weather/saturated now.

But, their realtor and our realtor just want the letter to be "reworded" to sound better. When I spoke with the technician who did the review, he said, I should be good to have no back up in house, but it could be a problem if I ever needed a permit and health dept came out.

My thought would be to have a 2nd opinion, but my realtor feels the test passed. I also feel like the history of previous surface saturation would qualify as a defect, which wasn't on disclosure.

Can you help me understand what I am missing? I really like the house and don't want to be a pain, but it isn't adding up?

Reply:

Lady a few clues are evident from your comments.

"baffle replaced" - the previous baffle, whose job is to keep solids in the septic tank, had failed enough to need replacement. By the time it's noticed and repaired, solids have most likely been flowing to the drainfield, adding to clogging and reducing its life.

"normal level" and "no drain back in the tank" - mean that at that MOMENT the drainfield was not so saturated that the effluent is so high that it flows backwards into the septic tank during pumpout. That does not, however, mean that no drainfield areas could be saturated or at end of life.

"Operating under saturated conditions" means the drainfield had been seen in failure mode.

We don't know if the problem was local surface waters and runoff, groundwater, or purely septic effluent. That distinction will be significant in deciding what repairs are needed - we need to direct groundwater and surface runoff away from a drainfield. And when a drainfield is "saturated" it is not working, not treating effluent, and is contaminating the environment.

No ponding "at this time" is a safe way of having made the realtor happy but covered the inspector for liability. No ponding could be because of little or no use, tank pumped out to give a respite, the season of very hot dry weather, or other events that temporarily make the fields look as if they're working.

With the history that you report, the septic system has failed in the past, and as no one has reported to you that any substantial repairs (like new drainfield or found and repaired broken drainfield piping) have been performed, it has NO predictable future life.

(Without actually digging up more components we don't know exactly what's wrong - a broken pipe is a minor repair compared with replacing a drainfield. The latter sounds much more likely from your description)

Your plan to buy the home would be irresponsible if it didn't include funds to repair or replace the septic system.

Comment:

Thank you for making me feel sane. And, yes, the system had been pumped for the test. I am glad to know that I'm at least asking the right questions.

We had planned to talk with the county tomorrow to find out more, but at least I don't feel like such an idiot now. I keep feeling like people think I'm making this up to complain about it, and I'm not sure why it's a surprise to anyone, especially since it was built in 1972.

Reply:

You sound sane to me, but I add that most people don't buy a new home often, so they are at a bit of an experience disadvantage vis-a-vis other players in the transaction such as real estate agents, attorneys, inspectors who have other interests.

Real estate is a tough business; when I've witnessed court disputes the judge always has taken the position that because a buyer knows it's a big financial decision with other parties who have conflicting interests (realtors, seller, some attorneys, and some home inspectors), the judge feels that the responsibility for due diligence is on the buyer, and the judge won't accept an argument that you relied on "puffing" or obfuscation by anybody else.

I'm not advising not to buy the property - it would be very rare for me to inspect a property and find that there was absolutely nothing in need of attention. But buy with a better picture of the real cost: purchase price plus necessary repairs, and proceed accordingly.

My septic inspector failed the septic drainfield during wet conditions after Hurricane Irene;

The owner disputes the results and may have added something to the fields to try to "pass" the system.

Whom can I trust?

My inspector failed the drain field on a house that I wish to purchase yesterday September 6. 2011. On August 30th was the first inspection which was a few days after Hurricane Irene. The inspector said the tank needed a clean out. Our inspector recommended waiting until Saturday for the field to dry out due to the excessive rain from the Hurricane.

Then the homeowner insisted on being at the inspection and wanted no one on his property so he pushed the inspection to one full week since he was on vacation. In the meantime the tank was cleaned out. It again rained the night before and day of the inspection of the tank and field.

Our inspector failed the field. The homeowner who claims he went to school for septic engineering is disputing the results. He is saying that the inspector did not check the bed yesterday to see if it had drained and only looked in the tank. He claims the inspector said too much rain to test and told the homeowner and 2 witnesses that the septic should be fine, bed is far enough from house and he could test sometime in October.

Do you think the homeowner is lying and maybe adding or already added something to the septic to try to get it to pass inspection? We are debating having a different inspector return to the property. I am afraid he may hire someone he knows due to his admission of being a septic engineer.

Also, can you tell if someone added something to treat the field? If you could please let us know ASAP. Thank you my whole world revolves around this issue. I have kids in school and soon no house to live in since mine is being sold in a few days. - R.F.

Reply: Caveat emptor: when buying a home you have to rely on consultants who are both competent and have no conflict of interest

A competent onsite inspection by an expert who has expertise in septic system testing usually finds additional clues that help accurately diagnose a problem or answer questions about the condition of the system. That said, here are some things to consider:

Your inspector who wanted the tank pumped most likely would have asked that as an extra step in inspecting and diagnosing the system

A septic drainfield has to work even in rainy weather; indeed, however, if hurricane Irene had actually caused local area flooding, that'd be sufficiently abnormal as to decide to wait on testing

An owner who won't allow people on a property is in my experience waving a red flag of warning to watch out for a cover-up of a costly problem. I emphasize that point even though I understand that selling a home is a nervous time for the seller too.. Everyone wants everything to go smoothly. And on occasion I've seen sellers do very suspicious things not because there was really a serious issue, but because they were afraid there might be one. It's a mistake.

I agree with the owner, however, that just looking at the tank is hardly a competent inspection; however, one might see something at the tank, such as drain-back into the tank during pumpout or lost tank baffles that would be very indicative of a field failure.

In real estate law just about everywhere the courts opine that because buying a home is a major expense and because there are parties with strongly conflicting interests, a buyer who relies on representations by a seller or a real estate agent is ... well how should I say it ... being ill-advised. Details are at CONFLICTS OF INTEREST AT SEPTIC SYSTEM INSPECTIONS.

Home buyers are responsible for performing their own due-diligence and would be wise to rely only on advice from parties whom they are absolutely sure have no conflict of interest in the deal. Part of due diligence also involves doing your best to be sure that your advisors are not only unbiased, but competent.

In my experience and opinion, it's rare that a problem is so costly that buying the home is a mistake. It's correct, however, that the true cost of the property needs to be understood by the buyer to include the cost of necessary repairs for the property to be safe and habitable.

In sum, in the conditions you described, you would be wise to presume that on purchasing the home, at any time thereafter you are likely to face costly septic system repairs or even replacement of the drainfield; depending on the tank, its materials and conditions, there may be work there too. Age of the system, materials used, and other site clues would perhaps raise or lower the worry level but with no better data, the bottom line is unchanged.