Building plumbing system installation, inspection, troubleshooting & repair questions and answers.

These plumbing repair articles answer nearly all questions about diagnosing and repairing building plumbing systems, including water supply and drain piping, vent piping, gas and oil piping in buildings, plumbing fixtures, water heaters, water pumps, water pressure, water softeners, water testing, water treatment equipment, water wells, and septic systems.

We also explain oil tanks, water tanks as well as other building plumbing system inspection or defect topics.

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Plumbing System Diagnosis and Repair Guides

These questions & answers about building plumbing systems were posted originally

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INDEX to RELATED ARTICLES: ARTICLE INDEX to PLUMBING SYSTEMS

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I suspect a leak in the water line from well?

I suspect a leak in the water line from well, under garage, to house. Once into the house, the pipe goes through a check valve before the pressure sensor for the well pump; then it goes to the pressure tank.

When I shut off the water from pressure tank to house piping, the pressure gauge doesn't show a drop; nor does the well pump kick on. Does the check valve prevent the pressure from changing, even if there's a leak in the pipe before the valve?

One plumber says, to detect a pressure drop (and leak) in the line from well to house, I need to have the line cut before the check valve and have an air compressor test the pressure.

Another plumber says that, if the well doesn't kick on when the water is shut off from pressure tank into house, then there's no leak between well pressure sensor and well.

It seems to me...if the check valve cuts off water from backing out, then a leak wouldn't have any affect on the pressure between the valve and the pressure tank. Help me understand. Thanks. 2023-06-03 by Susan

Mod reply:

@Susan,

A check valve ahead of the pressure control switch will probably be on the line coming in from the well and is intended to prevent water from leaking back from the water pressure tank and house into the well when you stop running water.

If that valve isn't leaking, and if it's located between pressure gauge and well, then yes, the pressure on the house side should not drop when the house isn't using water.

Post a photo or sketch of the piping arrangement to be sure we're on the same page.

Now, if there's no pressure loss on the house side, the pump isn't kicking on for no apparent reason, and the pump isn't losing prime, why do you think there's a water line leak?

How can I estimate the total length of water lines in a building?

I have been tasked with estimating the total length of water lines in a building. I only have an aerial image of the building. Is there a way to give a rough estimate? 2022-12-05 by Johnathan

Mod reply:

@Johnathan,

You can certainly estimate anything by making some assumptions but in this case you're given so little information that your assumptions could be so far off as to make the estimate not very useful.

Unless you know something about the occupancy of the building, the number of floors, the number of areas that have plumbing and the type of plumbing, that is kitchens, bathrooms, or other areas, you're just shooting in the dark.

So you have to either make some assumptions about number of floors and number of fixtures and write those in your estimate or decline the task as being too speculative.

Proper & code-compliant clearance distances from a gas appliance vent

I'm getting different answers from licensed plumbers that have given estimates and the manufacturers(Rinnai and Navien), so I'm afraid to have them begin work without knowing if will pass inspection.

For a gas tankless water heater, the install manuals and IFGC are pretty much the same as far as clearances to operable windows. 12 inches above and 4 ft to the sides, but most are referring to through-the-wall vents/terminals, for indoor units.

For an outdoor appliance, is this clearance requirement specifically for the exhaust VENT of the appliance, or clearance to any part of the entire appliance?

Plumber installing Rinnai says clearance is to the unit, including any pipes. Rinnai tech support says its to the vent. Plumber installing Navien says to the vent. Navien tech support says to the unit.

Thanks!

Attached is a photoshopped image of the proposed location. On 2022-11-13 by Mike

by InspectApedia (Editor) - Rinnai and the plumber are right

@Mike,

If we consider the intention of these clearance distances from a gas appliance vent: to avoid back-drafting exhaust products back into the building should a nearby window be open, then Rinnai's tech support is spot-on. So is your plumber.

Navien's tech support person with whom you spoke may not have understood your exact question, or may have been giving a slightly-more cautious answer.

by Mike

@InspectApedia (Editor), Thanks so much. That's exactly what I was thinking.

 

Black and grey water have been leaking under the slab at our house and into ductwork

We have a house on a slab foundation. The main sewer drain pipe (cast iron) is in the slab between the kitchen and bath, which share a wall.

The bathroom AC duct is located near the pipe.

We recently discovered water in the AC duct in the bathroom and have observed that anytime any water is flowing in either the bathroom or the kitchen, a slow trickle comes down the duct into the plenum.

We have a downdraft HVAC system and I have a small hole cute in the metal below the AC unit so I can see what is going on in the plenum in the slab. We had a plumber do a smoke bomb test and found some hazy smoke rising from the slab between the kitchen and bathroom (we removed some drywall to see this).

We had another plumber do a camera down the toilet but could not see a leak. However, water is somehow escaping and getting into the ductwork.

Questions are - 1. is there any reason why we should work harder to pinpoint the leak, or should we just replace the whole pipe?

The house was built in 1950 so the cast iron is probably near the end of its life anyways 2. Is there any type of remediation we should do since black and grey water have been leaking under/in the slab for some months now? On 2022-10-20 by Homeowner John

by InspectApedia (Editor) -

@Homeowner John,

If I understand you correctly, you actually have two problems both of which are discussed at this website. First you have a broken sewer line that's leaking sewage under the building and into the HVAC duct system.

Secondly you have ducts that run under the floor slab.

If that were my building, rather than go to the expense of trying to sanitize under slab ductwork, I would abandon it entirely as you will find discussed at this website if you search for:

HVAC ducts under concrete floor slab

It sounds as if you need to replace your broken sewer line as well. There are options that can realign buried sewer pipes but I'm not sure that it's cost effective for small residential application.

Watch out: there is risk of serious health hazards from sewage under a home. Professional cleaning and disinfecting may be needed. I'd want some testing of the interior for sanitary contamination in the building interior and certainly in the HVAC system.

How to connect plastic PVC to an existing cast iron drain vent stack

Retrofit question here on an old building originally built in 1850 as a hotel. It is now an apartment building and we are renovating spaces to add more apartments via Covid-Relief money to house homeless folks.

Upon revealing the vent stack, it has a couple 45 degree bends precisely where the plumber wants to tie in with 3 inch PVC . Just below is a 2 inch vent from a bathroom group on the floor below.

Anyone have any insight on how to tie into an existing 4 inch cast iron vent stack in the configuration in the photo? A toilet, shower, bathroom sink, and kitchen sink will drain and vent into this stack. It seems like the dry vent will need to be rerouted above the incoming bathroom group, which should leave room for a Y to bring the new 3 inch PVC bathroom/kitchen into the stack.

Anyone have any better insights or know of any fancy cast-iron/PVC fittings that would make this easier. Thanks for your time and energies. On 2021-10-01 by Merce

by inspectapedia.com.moderator - ask local plumber for solution to 1850 hotel retrofit

@Merce,

Thanks for the interesting photo and question; we don't have a specific neat or tricky product to recommend, but in case it's helpful I'll share with you my opinion that it's pretty rare for us to encounter a construction or plumbing or electrical or mechanical systems problem that nobody has ever run into before, and usually someone has already invented a solution.

Take your question and some photos to your local plumbing supplier and let me know what she suggests.

Typically what we do is remove enough cast iron pipe to add a wye where we want to connect additional PVC vent piping.

How do I fix my water hammer bang in my pipes?

I have a well pipe that comes from my submersible 1hp pump into my basement. The pip is 1.25 inch and after the first 3 ft drops to 1.00 inch. The pipe then runs another 50' to the 90gal well Flexcon tank. When the well pump stops the pipes bang.

The pipes are strapped down firmly. The tank, 40/60psi switch and check valve have all been replaced.

The tank bladder pressure is around 38psi. Still the bang occurs. The bang seems to occur in the four 90 degree elbows starting at the bladder tank and working its way back to each of the elbows.

I was told the bladder tank is a big hammer arrestor so adding a water hammer arrestor before the check valve and tank would do nothing to stop the bang.

So how do I stop the banging? Could the change in pipe size have anything to do with the banging?

Any suggestions would be appreciated since many have had tried various changes but nothing has worked.On 2021-09-29 by Sam

by inspectapedia.com.moderator -

@Sam,

Simply installing a water hammer arrester may be sufficient. For those details as well as more complete diagnostics for this banging wate rpipe problem,

see our article on

WATER HAMMER NOISE DIAGNOSE & CURE 

And you will see both of description of causes and devices that can correct the problem.

Where will water supply pipes be run in a house with slab on grade construction?

I have slab floors,where do water lines run in the walls On 2021-08-15 by dewayne

by inspectapedia.com.moderator

@dewayne,

Unfortunately there is no standard answer for water line routing that would be "correct" for a home of which we know nothing. Lines may even run under the slab.

Start at yo

Water pressure at my house is very weak

I have well water with a house filter system. That being said recently the pressure in the house has went down. When you cut a spigot or shower on it is not coming out very hard at all. It’s steady just not like it used to be.

If I have the washer going or another shower running and you can cut on a spigot or something else, nothing comes out. The pressure gauge on the tank stays steady at 30psi. What could be wrong On 2021-03-23 by Kristinia

by danjoefriedman (mod) - water pressure in the house has gone down

@Kristinia,

First: try changing your water filter cartridge. If that doesn't give an immediate improvement in water pressure (flow rate), then

Take a look at the easy diagnostic steps found in WATER PRESSURE PROBLEM DIAGNOSIS TABLE

 

Why is no water coming out of the sink in my powder room?

Hi I have no water coming out of my main floor powder room sink for the past week and now I’m losing water pressure to my kitchen sink and I have a well water supply for my home. I charged my air pressure and still nothing has changed.

What may be the issue we just had a few snow storms this past week On 2021-02-28 by Babbs

by danjoefriedman (mod) - losing water pressure

@Babbs,

I can't tell from your text what the nature of the problem is, whether we are facing a frozen pipe in one area and a loss of well water in another case or a different problem.

However we have a rather thorough list of diagnostic steps found as a live link given at the end of this article at

ARTICLE INDEX at the bottom of this page.

Where you will find articles that should be helpful such as:

NO WATER PRESSURE 

Please take a look and let me know if that works or if you have further questions.

Or just try using the search box found above and search this site for

Lost water pressure

 

After frozen pipes I have no water at some locations in my house

I have had several issues with water lines freezing this winter, but this last time after thawing them out I only have water to 1 bathroom in which the bathtub has hot and cold water and the toilet is working well but nowhere else is it working. Also I live in a mobile home On 2021-02-24 by yetsu96

by (mod) - how to protect pipes from freezing

@yetsu96, in the article index found just near the end of the article on this page you will see that we have several articles on freeze proofing pipes.

FROZEN AEROBIC SEPTIC or WATER SUPPLY SYSTEM

PIPE FREEZE PROTECTION - home

WINTERIZE - HEAT ON PROCEDURE

WINTERIZE - HEAT OFF PROCEDURE

WINTERIZING an RV or MOBILE HOME

Please take a look and then don't hesitate to ask any follow-up questions you need.

My well pump won't start or pressure climbs too slowly

My well pump will not cut in at 40 lb. and pressure drops to 0lb. engage primer lever and it takes off from 40 lb. runs to 50 lbs. than creeps to 60 lbs.? On 2021-02-16 by James

Answer by (mod) -

That suggests, James, that the pressure sensor on your water pump pressure control switch is debris-clogged or damaged. But there could also be a damaged pump impeller.

Replace the pressure control switch and be sure that the tubing or small-diameter pipe feeding it is cleared of any sediment, rust, debris.

Step by step diagnostics are

at WATER PUMP DIAGNOSTIC TABLE  and also

at WATER PUMP WON'T START 

What are the best fittings to connect up irrigation system piping and devices?

For irrigation devices - do you prefer threaded fittings with tape to glue? On 2021-01-14 by Scott Thompson

Reply by (mod) -

Scott

Thank you that's an interesting question. I find that for many piping situations including irrigation systems using plastic piping with glue joints is perfectly satisfactory, durable, and less expensive to install than using threaded fittings.

Water pressure falls too much when a toilet is flushed

Moved into a new construction home last Dec. The plumber adjusted the water pressure from 100 PSI to 65 PSI after replacing the bad thermal expansion tank on 10/27/20.

The water pressure went up to 80 PSI this month. However, it drops from 80 PSI to 40 PSI after the toilet is flushed. A 3rd party plumber recommended to replace the pressure reducing valve. Any suggestions? Thanks! On 2020-11-25 by AJ

Reply by (mod) -

Sounds like you need a new pressure regulator/reducer just as was suggested, AJ

by AJ

Thank you so much for your help!!! The plumber finally replaced a new PRV. The water pressure was 80 PSI measured from the basement faucet before the replacement. He said that most of the homeowners would set it to 80 PSI, so that's what he set it to.

However, the water pressure from the water heater was 82 PSI, so he adjusted it a bit lower. The water pressure changed to 50 PSI after the Plumber left. The water flow has been normal and does not drop a lot when using the washing machine or flushing a toilet. The water pressure only dropped from 50 PSI to 45 PSI after a toilet was flushed compared to a 40 PSI (80 -> 40 PSI) drop before.

However, the refrigerator would clunk randomly after flushing a toilet. Sometimes, a loud banging noise happened right after a toilet was flushed or when the washing machine was on or when the shower head was turned on. Please help again! Thank you!

Reply by (mod) -

Sounds like water hammer noise: see the diagnostics at WATER HAMMER NOISE DIAGNOSE & CURE - home

 

 

How do I check a toilet and shower for leaks?

How do I check toilet and shower drains for leaks? On 2020-11-10 by bshultz@shultzteam.com

Answer by danjoefriedman (mod) - how to check toilets and shower drains for leaks

Mr/s Schultz

Thank you for a helpful question:

Indeed a leak at a sink trap is usually easy to see: just look under the sink for water or drips.

But a leak at a toilet or shower drain is more difficult to detect since both the toilet drain and the shower or tub trap are usually underneath a floor and not visible unless that floor is over an unfinished crawl space or basement ceiling.

How to detect leaks in building plumbing drains and traps

Take a look at LEAK TYPES, WATER SUPPLY or DRAIN PIPES for help in finding leaks by understanding different types of leakage and when it occurs.

You'll see that there are leaks that drip all the time (from supply pipes or valves), leaks that are evident only when a fixture is in use (drains such as at toilets and showers).

Signs that a toilet or shower drain is leaking include:

1. Wet spots on the surrounding floor:

such as at a toilet base or shower pan edge.

2. Wet spots or stains in the ceiling or walls below the toilet or shower:

You may see a water stain in drywall or plaster ceilings or even in nearby walls as water from a leaky toilet or tub or shower drain can also run across a ceiling and down a wall cavity;

In a basement or crawl space, you may see wet insulation, subfloor, framing, or by removing insulation (if present) in the ceiling below the toilet, tub, or shower, you can inspect the floors below the toilet or shower, looking for wet areas, water damage, water stains, even insect damage as dampness can attract carpenter ants.

3. Odors:

such as mold smells or sewage odors.

See details
at SEWER LINE LEAKS & ODORS

4.Visible signs of mold growth:

mushrooms or mold appearing on nearby building surfaces.

5. Moisture measurement:

using a pin type or electronic type moisture meter, measure the surrounding floor and the ceiling below the toilet or shower for signs of higher levels of moisture than in other ceilings (or walls) nearby.

See MOISTURE METER STUDY for a guide to using a moisture meter reliably;

that article includes a link to MOISTURE METER SOURCES - examples of where to buy a leak detector or moisture meter.

Fix slow hot water flow that never gets hot enough

Hello! My husband and I bought a house a year ago and the hot water in the guest bath shower only was broken. It came out very slowly and didn't get very hot. All of the other hot water in the house worked great with good pressure and was very hot.

Recently my husband tried to fix the guest bathroom shower. He flushed cold water through the hot water tubes and it cleared out the line and now the guest bath shower works great! However... two days later the same problem occurred in our master bathroom.

Both sinks, the shower, and the bathtub now have only a trickle of cold water come out when we turn on the hot water. Any tips? Thanks! On 2020-10-06 by Gretchen

by danjoefriedman (mod) -

It sounds as if you are on the right track. It's quite possible that debris is clogging valve. When hot water flow is poor at multiple fixtures I first look for a blocked outlet at the water heater and if that's clear, then I work towards those bathrooms, cutting pipe open if necessary at elbows to find the blockage.

Some (a few) plumbers have a water line inspection camera small enough to scope such piping but if not you have to proceed as I described.

Unvented directly heated water heater dripping water

I have an unvented directly heated water heater which has started dripping water from either the TPRV or the expansion valve about ~30 minutes into heating (can't tell which, as they both discharge through a single tundish). The dripping water is barely warm, and always much cooler than the water in the cylinder. The cylinder uses an internal air bubble for expansion.

We have tried 'recharging' the air bubble with partial draining and refilling, which seemed to work for a couple of weeks, but then the problem returned. The next step, we're told, is to fit an external pressure vessel to replace the air gap and to replace the valves (TPRV, combined pressure reducing inlet, check valve and expansion valve.

Does this sound reasonable? How is the pressure increasing enough during such a short heating cycle to trigger either the expansion or TPRV valve?

(Expansion is set at 8 bar, TPRV at 9 bar, and the nominal pressure from the incoming cold supply is 2.1 bar). On 2020-08-30 by Rob

Answer by (mod) -

Rob

Watch out: the risk is that that leak at the relief valve can deposit minerals or debris that clog the valve, leading to a BLEVE - an exploded water heater that can cause serious injury or damage or worse.

Try the search box on our page for

RELIEF VALVE LEAKS 

And review that article to be sure we're not missing a different cause of that dripping

Grinder pump sewage waste comes up out of the nearby bathroom sink

I have grinder pump that blows out the bathroom sink. It worked for years with no problem..

Should a check valve be installed.? What could be causing this? On 2020-08-03 by Buzz

Reply by (mod) -

That sounds to me as if there is a drain blockage downstream from the sink, Buzz, such that when the pump is running the pressure it creates in the DWV system is blowing back out of the sink drain.

I would look for a vent blockage as well as a drain blockage.

Lost water pressure and water is spilling under my mobile home

There was no water pressure so I listened and sounded like a bunch of water under my mobile home On 2020-05-01 by Anonymous

Reply by (mod) -

That sounds like a burst water pipe.

Watch out: to avoid more serious water damage and dangers that could even undermine the foundation or piers at some mobile homes, I would

1. turn off the water pump

2. look under the home for a burst pipe or flooding

let me know what you see.

Tub Spout won't send all water up to the shower

I am having trouble with my tub spout. It won't fully block the water for the shower. So the shower head water pressure is weak.

Coming out of the wall is just a copper nipple, no threads. I have replaced the tub spout and water shoots back into the wall. Even though the tub spouts have a kit to attach to the smooth copper, would a threaded piece be more effective? On 2020-03-29 by Derek Dethlefsen

Reply by (mod) -

Yes, Derek;

I'm not familiar with a tub spout connecting to an un-threaded copper nipple; In the spouts I've installed, we soldered a male adapter onto the copper supply pipe and threaded the tub spout onto that using either teflon tape or pipe dope.

The kit shown below - Plumb Pak N/A 1-Handle Chrome Plated Tub Spout - is sold at Ace hardware stores and online.

You may need to solder on a threaded adapter.

How to troubleshoot & fix a clogged sink/toilet combo prison toilet

What style of toilets are the ones used in jails stainless steel tankless toilet sink combos. Need to know how it works so I can fix flushing problem On 2020-02-16 by tommy cook

Answer by (mod) -

Tommy,

Prison toilets generally work like other toilets but are constructed of stainless steel and may use a power flush or gravity flush system.

If your toilet has a flushing problem, start by plunging it vigorously with a toilet plunger.

See details at TOILET CLOG REPAIR, UN-BLOCK

...

Shown above are photos of a widely used sink-toilet combo from the Penal Ware brand sold by Acorn Engineering who sells to the justice system. The second photo of an Acorn toilet for sale on Ebay gives a view of the plumbing connections at the rear of the device.

This ACORN PARTS & TROUBLESHOOTING GUIDE [PDF] Acorn Engineering Co., POB 3527, Industry CA 91744 USA Tel: 626-336-4561 may help with repair of at least this brand of toilet/sink combination fixture.

Here is an EXAMPLE of installation instructions for one of the many models of this toilet:

PENAL-WARE TOILET SINK COMBO INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS [PDF] Acorn Engineering Co., POB 3527, Industry CA 91744 USA Tel: 626-336-4561

Shown below is a Kuge brand gravity-flush stainless steel toilet.

OK to connect solar hot water panel to geyser hot water tank without a pressure relief valve?

Can l make a direct connection to hot water from solar panel to geyser hot water with out replacing standerd safety valve , On 2019-12-14 by Jacques

by (mod) - No

Jacques - I'd want to know more about your system.

But in general

Watch out: any water tank or vessel that might become pressureised needs a pressure relief valve for safety.

For example, if your geyser is a conventional water heater fed by pressurized water from a pump or from municipal water supply, and if your solar water heater operates at a lower pressure, you would not connect the two directly as you would be connecting high pressure city or pump water into a low pressure solar system.

Armed with brands and models we can check the specs and installation instructions from the manufacturers.

How to Diagnose no hot water from a Superstor SS-40 indirect water heater

I have a superstor SS-40 indierect water heater. It receives hot water but only cold comes out.

The zone valve was replaced and works fine and I had hot water for about two weeks; then the same problem came back.

According to the panel, the thermostat is calling for hot water. I have also raised it up to 180 degrees with no change in water temp. It was replaced over a year ago. Any ideas what the problem could be? Thanks for your help On 2019-12-04 by Ned

 

Advice by (mod) - no hot water: what to check

Ned

The problem could be something as simple as an air-bound heating pipe loop that's not actually circulating hot water through your SuperStor.

Using the HTP Superstor WATER HEATER MANUAL [PDF] as an example, the company lists a number of things to check if there is no hot water. I'll post a snapshot of that checklist below.

You can find HTP Superstor water heater manuals at WATER HEATER MANUALS

[Click to enlarge any image]

 

Water pressure tank is water logged? Or is it a different problem?

I have a 3/4hp 10gpm well pump, 250 ft down, 45 ft down to water. 20 gal pressure tank, 40-60 psi. Sediment challenge. Measured water from drain at tank at 17 sec for 5 gal. How can that be?(17 gpm?)
Should I get bigger tank for longer pump run and more drawdown capacity?

Maybe pinhole leak in bladder? Maybe pressure switch clog? 20 year old setup. Thanks!

I've been reading many articles on inspectapedia about well supply. I looks like my 20 gal. Pressure tank is undersized.

But then I measured my pump flow and it was higher than I thought it could do. (17gpm vs 10gpm it was rated) Not sure why. The time from turning on pump til turns off is only 17 seconds which is a short run time, a type of short cycling?

I'm on my 5th pump in 20 years and would like to improve the setup if possible without unnecessary replacement of components. Just because something was originally put in doesn't mean it was right. by (mod) -

Yes if the pump has a very brief on time from the point at which the pressure control switch turns it on until the pressure control switch turns it off the most likely your tank is waterlogged and needs an air charge On 2019-11-09 by Jim B.

Reply by (mod) -

Jim I'm not sure I have a clear understanding of the situation; but in general if your water tank is water-logged you'd get only a small water charge in the tank.

If this tank uses an internal bladder see diagnostics and repair starting at WATER TANK BLADDERS

If it does not use an internal bladder you might want to start at WATER TANK AIR, HOW TO ADD

OK to connect shower drain to toilet waste line?

Can a shower drain be connected to a toilet drain- the toilet would be between the shower and the main vent stack. On 2019-09-21 by Alexander Mo

by (mod) -

In general, Alexander, yes, that's done all the time. Just be sure that the venting is adequate and that the drain lengths are within spec for distances to the vent and to the vertical wet drain; else the toilet flush can siphon out the shower trap.

...

Continue reading  at PLUMBING SYSTEM INSPECT DIAGNOSE REPAIR - topic home, or select a topic from the closely-related articles listed there, or see the complete ARTICLE INDEX.

Or see PLUMBING SYSTEM INSPECT DIAGNOSE REPAIR FAQs-2 - more recent questions and answers about building plumbing systems and parts.

Suggested citation for this web page

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INDEX to RELATED ARTICLES: ARTICLE INDEX to PLUMBING SYSTEMS

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