Water softener regeneration cycle questions & answers:
FAQs about the duration or length of a water softener regeneration cycle, how to diagnose & fix problems with a water softner that runs too long or not long enough. Questions & answers about how much water does a water softener consume to regenerate its ability to remove minerals from the water supply?
This article series describes procedures for diagnosing and repairing water softener or water conditioner problems including water conditioner control settings and adjustment or repair, brine tank and brine tank float cleaning and repair, and the proper amount of water softening or conditioning that is needed.
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These questions and answers about how long a water softener regen or cycle time should be were posted originally
at WATER SOFTENER REGENERATION CYCLE DURATION - be sure to review that article.
On 2017-08-25 by (mod) - air leaks or causes of salty water out of the water softener
CP I agree that this sounds like a water softener malfunction.
Typically when water is salty I think the regen cycle is not working properly and is salt-overdosing. Foam indicates other problems like an air leak in the system.
At https://inspectapedia.com/plumbing/Water_Softener_Diagnostic_FAQs.php
we have a section that I will excerpt here
More Causes of Foamy Water Out of a Water Softener System: a sequence of diagnostic steps
Sanitize the system;
Look for air leaks in the system piping;
Look for resin beads or resin loss in the system water supply
Take a look at SOFTENER CLEANING & SANITIZING - inspectapedia.com/plumbing/Water_Softener_Cleaning.php
and see if that leads you to want to do anything different in the cleaning procedure.
Other sources of foamy water output from a water softener include
Most Likely: an air leak somewhere in the system tubing or piping or in the control head
A defect inside the resin tank like a clogged or cracked / damaged centerrinjector tube
A bad air check valve at the bottom of the resin tank downtube or parts lost from the check valve.
Check your water softener manual for the procedure for cleaning the injector. If someone worked on the system and left component of an internal check valve out, or work, on the system left an air leak in tubing or connections that may be the problem.
----
The Water Boss troubleshooting notes suggest these causes of salty output water
Plugged Injector.
Low water pressure.
Drain line or flow control restricted.
Brine line restricted or crimped.
Excessive amount of water in brine cabinet.
Intermittent pressure drop from feed source
---
And: have you opened and looked into the brine tank? Is there salt or just foamy water?
Finally, you can call Water Boss for technical help directly: 1-800-437-8993. You will need the model and serial number of the control head on your water boss water softener. The serial number is on the control head, on the top or on some models on the back.
---
Take a look at that advice and do keep me posted - as that will help other readers.
On 2017-08-25 04:31:38.390635 by CP
Hi! I just moved into a house with a Waterboss Pro 180 water softener. It has been working just fine for the last couple of weeks but today when it tried to regenerate it seemed like it failed to go through the last part of the regen cycle.
At least it took much shorter time to regenerate than previously and seemed to skip the '04' part of the cycle.
Main notable symptom was that it continued to display '00' immediately after that regen cycle was complete rather than the normal '02' indicating 200 gallons of water til next regen cycle.
Many hours later, we noted that the water coming out of our taps is now salty and foamy. Any thoughts?
Time to call in an expert, or is there a simple 'duh' sort of solution that someone who's never owned a water softener before is missing?? We are on well water rather than municipal, and the unit used to regenerate automatically about once a week.
On 2017-07-12 00:55:25.195327 by (mod) -
Am
Does your softener's control head regenerate based on water quantity used or on actual hardness? If so the situation would be normal. A running toilet uses a lot more water than one might guess. Try leaving the runner turned off and see what happens.
On 2017-07-11 20:51:22.136642 by Amaris
Our water softener seems to be regenerating far more frequently than usual. I have also noticed an issue with one of our toilets running almost constantly after flushing lately. Are these two issues related? If so, what do we need to do to address the problem?
Thanks.
On 2017-07-07 13:07:38.553981 by (mod) -
Anon
That's a smart idea, particularly if your softener regenerates based on a timer-clock rather than by measuring water usage: unplugging the softener will prevent it from humming along trying to regen when there's no water. You could also put the softener in BYPASS mode.
Watch out, though: some water softeners with complex programs that are set up electronically like the Pentair Fleck control head for water softeners illustrated in our article over at
https://inspectapedia.com/plumbing/Water_Softener_Resin_Replacement.php
will lose their programming and revert to a default set up if the softener's electric power is off more than a few hours.
When water is turned back on remember to check that the timer's clock is set correctly.
On 2017-07-07 02:20:06.771176 by Anonymous
MY WATER IS SHUT OFF, DO I NEED TO UNPLUG MY SOFTENEr
On 2017-06-21 15:51:56.330061 by (mod) -
Sounds like a stock control. Try putting the water softener in to bypass mode.
On 2017-06-21 08:38:21.527436 by francisco
I dont have any water in my house unless I manually regenerate my water softner, why ?
On 2017-04-28 23:59:36.227253 by (mod) -
Dennis:
Perhaps resin loss from the water softener.
Aha- new softener, old problem: then I suspect the water supply itself - perhaps iron - or rusting galvanized iron pipes.
On 2017-04-28 21:53:49.814651 by (mod) - using iron out in a wagter softeneer
Len
Assuming the softener control used to do the automatic regen, I suspect the timer or control head has failed. No additives to the salt tank will fix that.
On 2017-04-28 18:58:32.828215 by Len Y.
My automatic water softener does not seem to recycle when needed. I have been initiating the manual recycle when the hardness of the water increases to the point that the soap does not lather. What can I do to fix this. I have been using the softener saver type of salt, but it still does to sense the harness and automatically regenerate.
I have not been using the "Iron Out" product. Is it that the iron is built up in the resin or can there be other problems. If I start using the "Iron Out" product, will the auto regenerate re-establish?
On 2017-04-27 12:59:52.656375 by Dennis Squire
What could be the cause of discolored water in toilet after water softener regen cycle? I searched your website and found answer to clean brine tank, however, this is a new water softener but the problem is not new. The same thing happened with the old water softener. Thanks for your response.
On 2016-12-26 01:44:09.911474 by (mod) -
Sorry, Larry, I don't know what an Eddy system is.
On 2016-12-25 18:52:34.296206 by Larry Wilson
Is it a good idea to install Eddy system along with a water softener?
On 2016-11-09 15:53:46.343957 by (mod) -
Yes, Susil.
On 2016-11-09 07:26:11.675484 by Susil Seneviratne
Can we use the hard water for brine preparation for regeneration.At the moment we use less hardness water (40ppm) for brine preparation and slow rinsing and fast rinsing. Unit operates manually.
On 2016-09-03 15:50:40.264626 by Anonymous
Annette: I'd start by running the softener through a manual regen cycle, watching the brine tank and brine tank float operation and then watching for the brine-waste discharge.
On 2016-08-30 16:00:48.990025 by Annette
I gave a fleck2510sxt softener that is stuck in UD ---- mode. The manual says the valve should correct itself but I am not sure what the display should look like if valve is operating correctly?
I have replaced the timer assembly and by the piston and seals. ANY ideas whst to do now?
On 2016-08-25 12:12:32.005199 by Anonymous
Does anyone know where I can get parts for rainsoft?
On 2016-08-04 21:39:18.560672 by (mod) -
Sounds like a control head malfunction; certainly you can try putting the softener in manual bypass mode or turning it off entirely for a test period; that'll confirm that it's the problem source.
On 2016-08-04 21:11:39.276936 by Kelly
Hi. We just found out our 1 year old softener has big spike of water usage by 3 or 4 times our normal water usage every three days. It's not timed with the regen mode or our family water usage.
We don't think it's a leak because its not continual and no signs of water pooling or damage. The service person who came said the reading on the unit confirmed every 3 days (for past 80 days)there was a huge spike in the water usage rate. It just so happens the 3rd day was the day of the service call. He said between midnight and 9 am (when he showed up) we used 4 times more water than normal.
And we didn't have anything happening (no laundry, no dishwasher, nothing...).
We think the unit is flushing water erroneously every 3 days. Repair guys is stumped. I'm going to try to measure the water on that 3rd day coming out the outside pipe.
He says unit screen records it as around 260 gallons all at once, on the spike days. Any thoughts?
On 2016-06-21 05:17:48.547666 by (mod) -
Thank you for asking an excellent question, John.
A good standard is that an efficient water softner should use no more than 5 gallons of regeneration cycle water per 1000 grains of hardness removed from the water supply.
To have space for a researched and factual answer with citations and calculations of regen cycle water usage of water softeners I repeat your question and give a detailed reply in the article above. Please take a look and let me know what questions remain.
On 2016-06-21 04:00:08.495364 by John
how many gallons of water being wasted during each regeneration cycle?
On 2016-05-24 21:37:04.855675 by tim k
my softener runs continuously and the display is dark.
It use to show cycle now blank no lights.
(Feb 19, 2014) Bruce said:
My softener stopped softening the water 2 months ago. The unit is about 18 years old. I replaced the resin, cleaned the valve head, poured 3 gallons not water into the brine tank with iron out and manually regenerated many times.
The water gets soft for a few days but then isn't. It's using salt normally, the valve timer is working but still won't keep the water soft. The only thing I haven't done is disassemble and clean the brine tank. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Bruce,
Check the float assembly to assure it's not stuck and check the salt dose setting against the measured hardness of the incoming water supply;
Reader follow-up:
Thanks Dan, the float assembly looked fine. I soaked the basket in Ironout just in case and blew it out, seems clear. The salt setting was at 3 lbs which seems rather low so I bumped it up to 13 lbs. The last water test was pH 5.8 / Iron 3.0ppm / Hardness 20 grains per gallon. What setting do you recommend for that iron level? Again, your help is really appreciated.
Reply:
The separate article SOFTENER ADJUSTMENT & CONTROLS
See ARTICLE INDEX
discusses salt dose and regen cycle settings - which you can look at but you'll want to set your particular softner salt dose and regen cycle frequency per the instructions for your particular brand and model to get it just right.
I don't know about softener setting for iron level - which is a secondary feature to softener settings for hardness; I'd be glad to do some research but let's start with the instructions for your unit. What is the brand and model? (And you have the instructions for it?}
Reader follow-up:
(Feb 20, 2014) Bruce said:
How much water should be in the brine tank after a full regeneration? I'm starting to wonder if the air check ball is stuck or for some reason, the correct amount of brine water is not being created.
Reply:
Indeed there are usually a few inches in the bottom of the brine tank, but in normal conditions you won't see it: the brine solution will be covered by salt.
- check that the float assembly travels freely and is not stuck - most brine tanks control water entry and exit quantity by a float operated switch.
- poke at the salt in the tank; salt can form a crust that makes it look as if there's plenty of salt in the tank while actually there may be nothing but hollow space below the crust.
There is about 3-4" of water but the float sits about 5-6" above the water line while in service mode. Does the water go up that high during regeneration? Doesn't seem like it does at all. Further to that, I opened the air check where the brine tank hose attached expecting to find a ball but there wasn't one.
I understand that the all floats when water is in there and close up the line when the brine water runs out. But there was no ball. Also, my air check looks different than the ones I see pictured, it's flatter than taller. I can send a pic if that's possible. Thanks again, you are very helpful, I appreciate it,
Reply:
Bruce, I'm not sure, not even knowing what softener you have, but generally the float controls the quantity of water that enters the brine tank - as you probably see, water enters, causes the float to rise until it shuts off the incoming water; time is given to dissolve salt; then salty water is pumped back out of the brine tank and through the softener to do the regen.
If you want to experiment, with no salt in the tank, so you can see what's going on, use the softener controls to request an extra or manual regen cycle. Watch the brine tank. You should see water enter, the float rise, the float stops rising and presses against a mechanical switch that stops water entry. (The float level is adjustable on many softeners and should be set per the manual).
As the cycle continues you should see the salty water pumped back out of the unit and the water level drop.
Even before that observation it should be possible to GENTLY lift the float rod and let it drop back into position. The float should move freely up and down. Sometimes floats get stuck as salt cakes or falls into the tube protecting the float assembly.
Reader follow-up:
(Feb 21, 2014) Bruce said:
Thanks, I understand exactly what you wrote. The valve is an Autotrol 255/440 from 1996. Right now, I've the water soft but not sure how long it will last. It's soft because 2 days ago I add 3 gal hot water to the brine tank and did a manual regen. I'm wondering if enough water is getting into the brine tank.
Is the float valve itself subject to failure commonly?
The float moved the valve freely up and down but that doesn't mean the valve is opening fully, right? Maybe I should watch a full cycle to see if the water rises during the brine creation cycle.
That air check w/o a ball also is bothering me since everything I read on the 255 says there should be a plastic ball in there. Also, I read that air leaks could impact brine flow.
Feb 23, 2014) Anonymous said:
resin tank full of water and motor runs all time
Anon: I think you mean the salt or brine tank is full of water - the resin is inside the water softener - you can't normally see it.
It sounds as if your water softner control is stuck; try unplugging the unit; if it can't be reset manually the control may need repair or replacement.
(Mar 1, 2014) Lloyd Franklin said:
I have a rainsoft whole house water system that is showing signs of foamy water. Please let me know what problem can cause the system to make the water foamy?
I'm not sure Lloyd; maybe mis-adjustment, over-softening; have you tried cleaning the brine tank and checking the water softener settings against the actual measured hardness of incoming water?
(Mar 22, 2014) John said:
Recently I've been experiencing very foamy and salty tasting water from the cold water faucets in the mornings. I have to run the faucets for several minutes to clear. I have RainSoft about 30 years old. Never maintained except to replace salt.
John, perhaps you need to empty and clean the brine tank, then check that the tank float is moving freely, then run the softener through an extra regen cycle.
(May 11, 2014) Stuart Machin said:
My Crown twin tank water softener is running much longer on its regeneration cycle, 2-3 hours instead of the usual 10-15 minutes.
What is the likely problem & is it something I can fix myself ?
Stuart start by checking the control settings. Then try a manual regen cycle and watch what happens. Is the clock reading ticking or moving? I suspect a debris clogged control, check valve, or possibly a salt-stuck brine float.
7/19/2014 (4 hours ago) james lavalley email is jel122643@gmail.com said:
I have a performa water sofner.It keeps pluging up my washing machine screen with q
yellow substance and makes the washer not fill.Please help
James
This sounds as if the water softener is sending debris from the brine tank OR actual resin from the softener out with the house water supply.
You could try emptying and sanitizing the brine tank (articles here describe how to do that). But I suspect it's a resin problem - which means it's time to call your local water conditioner company to take a look at the equipment. I'll do some further checking and comment further as well.
(Oct 27, 2014) Anonymous said:
When my water softener is going through the regeneration cycle, it gets stuck at the brine rinse cycle and I have to advance it manually to complete the cycle. It is not softening my water. Any suggestions?
The control needs inspection and repair. This doesn't sound like a simple cleaning nor a stuck brine float.
(June 25, 2015) Steve said:
Question: During regeneration, does a salt water system shut off or prevent water flow to faucets? I understand that there is a bypass, but what would cause a complete loss of water pressure? Twice in the last week we have experienced NO WATER from our faucets for about 4 to 5 seconds, then pressure returns to normal. We bought the house a year ago and have never serviced the system. I'm trying to learn about servicing it now.
Steve
During the regeneration cycle the water softener does not shut off building water but it is placed into "bypass" mode. During that interval if someone in the building opens a faucet water is delivered but the water has not passed through the water softener. At the end of regen cycle the softener returns to in-use mode and water delivered to the building passes again through the water softener.
If you lose all water during water softener operation I suspect that the bypass valve is not operating properly. A less likely problem might be very poor well flow rate so that when the softener is using water for its regen/backwash cycle the building loses pressure.
A short 4-5 second delay during or after regen cycle I suspect is an artifact of how your backwash valve is operating, perhaps introducing a bit of air into the lines. Give us the brand and model and age (if you know it) of your water softener and we can research the question further.
(Aug 21, 2015) Ed said:
I have a kenmore ultrasoft 400 water softener which after the fast rinse cycle continues to drain water even after 30 minutes. I can manually cycle it through the various stages but I never see the word serve after the fast rinse.
(Aug 22, 2015) Josephinetheplumber said:
Question - The valve for the water flow from the well to the water softener was accidentally turned off for about 7 months. Would any problems be caused by the water softener unit having still gone through it's scheduled backwash cycle every other night?
Also, shortly after we had the water valve opened and the water softener operating, we noticed a momentary delay of water coming out of the faucets. After a month, it got to the point of no water flow, so we called a plumber. He said the pressure switch on the pump was clogged.
Could this have anything to do with the water softener having just gotten back on and water flowing through it after the 7 months of having gone through the backwash cycle without the water valve being open?
(Oct 14, 2015) Melissa Edwards said:
Can anyone guide me through changing the number of days between regeneration cycles on my culligan high efficiency water softener? Not that knowledgeable when it comes to softners. It is set for 6 days and is not doing the job. I would like to shorten it to 5 days between cycles.
The manual is vague, and culligan does not have any operation videos or step by step instructions. No doubt they want to secure their service calls. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
(Mar 11, 2016) Chelsea said:
My Rainsoft will regenerate a few times per day/night. I have it set at 2am, but it often will recycle about 3 times between anywhere from 10 pm to 4am.
Sounds to me as if indeed something is wrong, perhaps with the clock timer or the control head. Check that your timer is set with care and if it's a pin type, that no extra pins are pushed.
(May 4, 2016) Chuck M said:
The softener was working fine, and then I moved and took the softener with me. Now my softener is not removing any hardness from the incoming water.
I have cleaned the venturi and flow plugs. And checked the float valve and assembly. I am not sure, but I strongly suspect that it is stuck in the bypass position and it is not running any water through the resin bed at all. It is a GE Smart Water system.
Is there any way I can check tomake sure water is actually going through the resin bed and not being bypassed internally? Or any other suggestions. I think that it would be removing at least some hardness if water was flowing through the bed.
Chuck:
Have you run a manual regen cycle to observe that the softener is regenerating properly? You should see water enter the brine tank, then flow out of the brine tank, through the softener and out to a drain.
I appreciate your question: I haven't thought about how to confirm that a bypass valve is actually in the "open" position rather than the "bypass" position other than the external and very obvious physical position of the valve handle / control.
But I speculate that if the bypass valve is physically in the OPEN, that is NOT bypass, position, even if it's o-rings or seals were bad, nearly all water would bypass the softener, as the valve's brass core (or in the case of your bypass valve, plastic) would still be in bypass mode. I took a look at photos of the bypass valve: I don't see that it would be physically possible to push the valve to OPEN position while leaving it internally in bypass.
BUT here is something else to check: your water softener could be piped backwards in its new location. The GE generic water softener manual makes a point of showing that incoming hard water enters at the "INLET" side of the bypass valve.
The INLET side should be marked on your water softener on the connecting pipes protruding from the softener's back - that's where the bypass valve plugs-in. If you are in front of your water softener and facing it, the INLET connection should be on the water softener RIGHT side. Your incoming "hard" water from the building water supply should be piped to the INLET side of the water softener.
If the unit is piped backwards it might not soften water properly.
Take a look and let me know what you find, and we'll take it from there.
(May 4, 2016) Chuck M said:
Thanks ... It is piped correctly.
Considering that it was working fine before I move it, it would seem safe to think that the resin bed is OK. And if the resin bed is OK, is there any explanation for it now not reducing the hardness at all? It would seem to me that the only way it can be removing nothing is for it to be being bypassed. What else could cause zero efficiency?
(mod) said:
Chuck:
The GE Water Softener manual for your GE Smart Water Softener includes detailed manual diagnostics run using the control head. If you don't have the manual you can get a free one from GE or use our page bottom CONTACT link to send me email and I'll send you a copy. Going through the diagnostics will tell you if water is passing through the water softener (and at what rate in gallons per minute), it will tell you if the control switches are set properly, and you can compare the "service rating" setting for your water softener against your actual model - that might need to be re-set.
(May 5, 2016) Chuck M said:
My problem is that it has been cosmetically damaged to the extent that I don't know and can't find the model number. So I don't know what owner's manual to look at. the only thing I can find that might identify it is instructions on the inside of the cover just say that it is a SmartWater Softening System, and the Part Number for the instruction sticker pasted there is P.N. 7246958. Other than that I have no way to identify it.
OTOH I suspect that the parts are interchangeable on many models (and brands) so perhaps any diagnostics you could send me would apply to mine - I think the chances of that would be good. So I will email you as you suggest.
Is it normal for brine flush to be an hour long ? - D.C.
DC it could be an hour - as long as it stops you're ok. The length of the regen cycle is controlled by the timer/control on your equipment and will vary by water conditioner size and salt dose. It would not be unusual for the total regen cycle to take more than an hour, comprised of the steps described in detail at WATER SOFTENER REGENERATION CYCLE DURATION
My water softener continues to run when no water is being drawn from anywhere in the house. Why is this happening? - Joe Hernandez, Brighten MI
Joe:
The "Causes of Long Water Softener Run or Regeneration Cycles or Continuous Water Softener Draining" table
at WATER SOFTENER REGENERATION CYCLE DURATION lists common causes & cures for a water softener that cycles continuously or that keeps draining continuously.
Water overflows - citation, 8/31/11
Water is flowing out of the top of my water softener salt tank. Can you tell me what's wrong and how to fix it ? - anon.
Sure. We discuss this problem in the article above
at WATER SOFTENER REGENERATION CYCLE DURATION - your system overflowing may be due to
water softner i unplugged the unit and it still runs water through it is there is there something i can do to shut off water from going through the system until i can get someone to look at it - Robert Clem 8/1/12
Robert,
Put the water softener on bypass. (BYPASS VALVE)
Also see WATER SOFTENER BACKUP, FLOODING, LEAKS.
I have a Culligan 50 series softener that is continually draining water. There is a plastic tube out the top that goes direct to the main house drain and recently we noticed there is a steady stream coming from it.
I tried to put in by pass and can't move the spool. - NH 8/8/12
NH
I'd need to see a photo to be sure we are talking about the same component but it sounds as if you are describing a leak at the water / brine line between the brine tank and the water softener.
That line might leak either when the system is pumping water into the brine tank to make brine, or when the system is in regeneration cycle and is pumping salty water back through the water conditioner. Take a close look to see exactly what's leaking and replace those parts - it should be an inexpensive "screw-together" repair.
See WATER SOFTENER BACKUP, FLOODING, LEAKS for diagnostic & repair procedures for this problem.
I have heard that while the recycling is taking place you cannot run your water or take a bath. Is this true, and if so why, Second, about how long should the recycling take place before it completes its cycle - Dan
We should distinguish between can you and should you run water during a water softener regen-cycle. It is absolutely physically possible - so you can. But the water you receive will not be treated by your water conditioner or water softener - as during softener regen cycle the house water supply will "bypass" the softener.
So while I wouldn't hesitate to run some water during a water conditioner regen period, for example to flush a toilet if needed, it's better to avoid running water if you can, especially hot water where a tankless coil or tankless water heater is installed - because the un-treated water will be higher in mineral content and over time, depending on the amount run, you risk clogging up water supply piping.
Bottom line: If you need to take a shower, or run water for other uses during a water softener regen cycle, go ahead. But regular consumption of large volumes of water during the regen cycle are likely to speed up mineral clogging of pipes, especially hot water piping or a tankless coil.
(Apr 10, 2015) Barbara said:
The control on my softner that tells me what stage of softning it is in keeps going in circles. Does not give time for any one thing to complete.
Sounds like a failed control module. Try turning off power and waiting 5 minutes then turning it back on. Try a manual regen.
...
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