Q&A about how to diagnose & fix stains on building interior walls.

This article series describes the role of air leaks and soot deposition in indoor stains - clues that can sometimes explain high building heasting costs. Thermal tracking or ghosting stains may indicate insulation voids, air leaks, high indoor moisture, as well as serving as a collection point for airborne dust, dirt, soot, or other debris.

Q&A Thermal Tracking or "Ghosting" Stains on Walls & Ceilings

These questions & answers about cause, cure, & prevention of black marks or stains or "sooting" observed in a characteristic pattern on building walls or ceilings were posted originally at WALL STAIN DIAGNOSIS - be sure to review the advice given there.

On 2018-06-26 by (mod) - where does black soot come from?

You will find in the article WALL STAIN DIAGNOSIS and in this article series, there are multiple causes of thermal tracking stains with respect to where the particles might come from.

Common among them are

• H ouse dust
• Pets
• Smoking
• Fireplace
• Scented Candles
• and unsafe heat fired by oil or gas
  

On 2018-06-26 by Dave

I have black soot like deposits in my garage. More prevalent at the intersect of the Wall and ceiling with darker spots where the rafters are.

I have an insulated garage with a gas ceiling heater/furnace, I had the furnace checked and was told it was clean with evidence of soot.

On 2017-04-07 by (mod) - continue by looking at soot producers,

I'd start by looking at the stain location and pattern - that can indicate thermal tracking that can be due to poor insulation, high moisture, even simple house dust - so there is not always a specific "soot" source.

i'd continue by looking at soot producers, starting with the most-dangerous: gas fired heating appliances (risk of fatal carbon monoxide gas poisoning) - the article above and this whole series discusses and describes sources, diagnosis, cure.

if the stain pattern is local to a specific room that's diagnostic - then we'd look for what activities go on therein: smoking, candles, incense, pets, etc.

On 2017-04-06 by John

I am trying to find the cause of the soot stains on my upper living room walls and ceilings. How can I determine where they are coming from to fix the problem

On 2017-02-12 by (mod) - indoor humidity is an important factor in thermal tracking

I agree that indoor humidity is an important factor in thermal tracking (Ghosting for other readers)

Let me know what you're told.

D

On 2017-02-12 by Beth

Thanks for your reply. I have contacted two people to provide free energy audits, specifically to look for insulation problems, etc.

Both were familiar with this pattern of stains but wanted to see what else might be contributing (like humidity). I feel like I've made some progress, and this website was really helpful in explaining the problem.

On 2017-02-11 by (mod) - cure for thermal tracking

Beth

Depending on the soot or particle source and thus type, indeed stains can be hard to remove; typically people

1. find and fix the soot source

2. find and fix insulation defects in the walls or ceilings

3. find and fix any unusual moisture sources

4. clean the surfaces and re-paint as needed

You can see from the above list and from this article series that even if there is no unusual particle source thermal tracking stains can be a problem. Even normal house dust can form thermal tracking stains. So can outdoor dust, diesel particulates, road dust, debris.

Ionizers can indeed increase the rate at which particulates plate out of building air onto surfaces, and in some cases those devices may be both ineffective and unsafe if they are producing ozone in indoor air.

After removing the obvious indoor sources (candles, ionizer, pets) what's left are insulation and moisture problems to be addressed.

On 2017-02-11 by Beth

PS forgot to add that we have zoned electric heat, do not use fireplace, have lived there 9 years but problem is relatively recent ( past year or so)

After reading several of the articles and comments on thermal tracking I am pretty sure that is what is going on thoughout my entire condo, clearly following studs esp on exterior walls. However now the particles are everywhere and almost impossible to clean.

I think that several problems are contributing such as poor insulation, burning scented candles, occasional wet basement, pets, ionizer, and so on.

We noticed it at first after returning from a weekend away and having left a window wide open, very windy weekend. My question is who to call first when you have multiple potential problems?

I can send pictures if that helps but the pattern is clearly what I see in your pictures in the articles and yet that does not necessarily tell what the source of the particles is?

Any thoughts on where to start? Thanks!

On 2016-10-10 by (mod) -

Also see

https://inspectapedia.com/BestPractices/Combustion_Products.php

On 2016-10-10 1 by (mod) - diesel exhaust exposure research

Generally no, Anonymous, one does not want to breathe in soot, though trivial incidental exposure probably is not going to produce a noticeable effect in most people.

There may be greater risks for small children, infants, the elderly, asthmatics, people with other respiratory health concerns. The type of soot particles - their source - is probably also significant as some soot such as emissions from diesel engines may contain higher levels of harmful chemicals or carcinogens.

see

• Ibald-Mulli, Angela, H-Erich Wichmann, Wolfgang Kreyling, and Annette Peters. "Epidemiological evidence on health effects of ultrafine particles." Journal of Aerosol Medicine 15, no. 2 (2002): 189-201.
• Browner, Carol M. "Smog and soot: updating air quality standards." Public Health Reports 112, no. 5 (1997): 366.
• Nel, André. "Air pollution-related illness: effects of particles." Science 308, no. 5723 (2005): 804-806.
• Sydbom, A., Anders Blomberg, S. Parnia, Nikolai Stenfors, Thomas Sandström, and S. E. Dahlen. "Health effects of diesel exhaust emissions." European Respiratory Journal 17, no. 4 (2001): 733-746.
  Abstract:
  
  Epidemiological studies have demonstrated an association between different levels of air pollution and various health outcomes including mortality, exacerbation of asthma, chronic bronchitis, respiratory tract infections, ischaemic heart disease and stroke.
  
  Of the motor vehicle generated air pollutants, diesel exhaust particles account for a highly significant percentage of the particles emitted in many towns and cities. This review is therefore focused on the health effects of diesel exhaust, and especially the particular matter components.
  
  Acute effects of diesel exhaust exposure include irritation of the nose and eyes, lung function changes, respiratory changes, headache, fatigue and nausea.
  
  Chronic exposures are associated with cough, sputum production and lung function decrements. In addition to symptoms, exposure studies in healthy humans have documented a number of profound inflammatory changes in the airways, notably, before changes in pulmonary function can be detected. It is likely that such effects may be even more detrimental in asthmatics and other subjects with compromised pulmonary function.
  
  There are also observations supporting the hypothesis that diesel exhaust is one important factor contributing to the allergy pandemic.
  
  For example, in many experimental systems, diesel exhaust particles can be shown to act as adjuvants to allergen and hence increase the sensitization response.
  
  Much of the research on adverse effects of diesel exhaust, both in vivo and in vitro, has however been conducted in animals. Questions remain concerning the relevance of exposure levels and whether findings in such models can be extrapolated into humans.
  
  It is therefore imperative to further assess acute and chronic effects of diesel exhaust in mechanistic studies with careful consideration of exposure levels. Whenever possible and ethically justified, studies should be carried out in humans.
  

On 2016-10-10 13:47:07.771888 by Anonymous

Is the soot healthy to breath in? My rro mate and I have had increased sinus infections, vomiting and nausea.

On 2016-09-02 by (mod) - no stand-alone or free-standing "air purifier" filter that can possibly remove dirt and debris particle sources

Jana

There is in my opinion no stand-alone or free-standing "air purifier" filter that can possibly remove dirt and debris particle sources from a building any more than you can vacuum up dust bunnies from under the living room couch by waving a vacuum cleaner wand in the kitchen.

Yes in a *closed chamber* starting with a fixed quantity of airborne debris a filter can pull that right down - but that's not finding and removing the source.

On 2016-08-31 by Jana...Help

Hi. My mother's house has significant soot like ghost staining above most baseboards, up the walls, on the ceilings, window treatments, carpets...you get the picture.

She has an IQAir Health Pro and the filter is pretty bad each time it gets changed. We need a solution. Any suggestions of how to irradicate this issue would be greatly appreciated.

This home is modular construction. Built approx 20 years ago. Not sure if that matters. Thank you! Jana

On 2016-07-29 by (mod) -

YOu're welcome to use the page top or bottom CONTACT link to send me some photos for comment. I suspect that there may be something bleeding through the paint but can't really know from just e-text.

On 2016-07-27 by Linda

I have mysterious wall and now cabinet stains that are brown and can't be cleaned off. Some look like dripping stains.

Others are just irregular brown stains. These first appeared a year or two after the kitchen was repainted.

The most recent stains appear on cabinets that were resurfaced a few years ago.
Is there a way to post photos so these can be identified?
Thanks.

...

Continue reading at WALL STAIN DIAGNOSIS - topic home, or select a topic from the closely-related articles below, or see the complete ARTICLE INDEX.

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