Steam Boiler Water Feeder Valve FAQs3

Recent Q&A diagnose & fix a water feeder valve

Steam Boiler Using Too Much Water?

How much water should be going into my boiler?

How much water should be going into my boiler? My automatic water feeder read 59 about 2 months ago and now reads 62. is this a safe amount On 2018-12-02 by John

by (mod) - steam boiler water use varies but zero usage or high usage are abnormal

Steam boiler water usage rate varies considerably from one boiler and building to another so there's no single right answer on how much water you're boiler should use for a building about which we have no data.

But a water feed counter going only from 59 up to 62 on a steam boiler sounds as if your system is using little water.

Using zero water would be abnormal and probably impossible for a normal steam heating system.

(In comparison, if your boiler were a hot water system (not steam but hydrdonic - hot water not steam circulating through radiators, baseboards, etc) then it would not be using any water (unless there's a leak) and you wouldn't normally even have an automatic water feeder. )

However as long as the water level in the sight glass on your boiler is staying at the safe level marked on the boiler you should be fine.

by Anonymous

Its a 2 story single residence home about 90 years old

Boiler is top of the line about 6 years old and everything seems to be working well.

I was just wondering since I know too much fresh water being let in causes the heat exchanger to rust out...thanks for the info

Reply by (mod) -

I don't think that your steam boiler can let in too much water if its water level controls are working properly.

The water feeder will only replace the water that's consumed in the heating process. A float system includes water level sensing switch(es) that detect the water level and cause the automatic water feeder to add water whenthe water level in the boiler drops.

However you may be able to use some treatments in your boiler that will reduce the corrosivity of your water.

by Anonymous - Had to replace boiler heat exchanger due to a hole

I Had to replace the heat exchanger this past feb because it had a huge hole in it caused by the water either the quality or the amount.

My guess is a little of both but the feeder was constantly filling it up was tild too much fresh water is cancer to a boiler...it was only 5 years old

Reply by (mod) -

Thank you for the added information that's helpful.

My point was that if the steam boiler was actually flooded you would have no Steam Heat.

So if the water feeder was constantly feeding the water into the boiler I suspect that there was a leak somewhere.

Steam boiler using too much water, seems to be leaking somewhere

I have a gas boiler Bryant model 234-55. The problem having is have to fill glass sigh everyday, which was every 4 plus days before..

So I used the manual fill and filled glass sight up full, and beyond, water started running out of boiler, but could not find out from where.. But boiler works and heat, but uses a lot of water. No leaks in pipes or valves on radiators. Hope you can help me, Thanks, - Mike

Reply:

A competent onsite inspection by an expert usually finds additional clues that help accurately diagnose a problem with the boiler piping, water feeder, condensate return, or other components that might explain the "leak" you report.

That said, here are some things to consider:

• it sounds as if you are describing a steam heating boiler
• it is normal for a steam boiler to consume some water; that's why an automatic water feeder and low water cutoff safety valve are installed on modern units; some older steam boilers still require manual addition of water, every day or three depending on the level of heating system usage
  
  Watch out: DO NOT OVERFILL the steam boiler - doing so can cause several operating problems as well as spilling water out of the relief valve.
  
  A steam boiler will have a "fill-to" line marked on the boiler, generally where you can see it in relation to the water level in the boiler indicated by the sight glass or tube.
• if the quantity of water used by the boiler is unusual or improper (something to ask your trained steam heat service technician), then there may be a condensate return pipe leak, perhaps not in plain view, or perhaps radiator valves that are not closing when hot, but continuing to release steam (water vapor) all during the heating cycle.

Automatic Water Feeder Turned Off or Not Working

McDonnell & Miller Model 101A 24 VOLT electric water feeder works only in Manual Feed Mode?

I have a McDonnell & Miller Model 101A 24 VOLT electric water feeder it has not been used for years because of flooding radiator.

I have been for years just pressing the Manuel button on the feeder to add water to the boiler and took off the electrical connection to the feeder from low water cut off.

Recently i reconnected the electrical connection to the water feeder it comes on immediately depressing the Manuel feed button on the feeder,but no water flows.

why would it come on when it already has sufficient water added manually to the boiler sight glass. i thinking it should not come on until the water level drops in sight glass when low shut shut off demands water?

The low water shut off seem to work properly because when i drain it to clean it will cut off boiler when water is added in sight glass it comes on. On 2015-11-13 16:54:05.117932 by MEL

by (mod) -

I'm a little confused. If no water flows and none should flow the valve may be acting normally

by Mel

Thanks for your response Dan,i think i see your confusion.

The device clicks when electrical power is applied to the feeder the manual feed button depresses as if it trying to feed water to boiler.

Since water already in boiler, it should not feed until level drops in boiler sight glass....correct?

In addition the feeder stays on until electrical source is disconnected.

Why is it trying to feed? I 'm thinking it should not depress period until level water is needed. i brought the whole value assembly was going to change thought i ask before i did. Thanks again Mel

Reply by (mod) -

Before abandoning the old feeder I'd review the instructions for cleaning and flushing out the valve. Usually there's a filter or screen that gets cleaned. Sediment and crud are common in steam boiler heating systems.

by Mel - replacing the filter screen fixed my water feeder valve

It was the valve assembly filter screen replaced it, old one full of gunk and debris from galvanized pipes has been working fine every since.

Reply by (mod) -

Nice going Mel.

Particularly at these valves on steam boilers the accumulation of debris is a common condition and one worth looking for.

by Mel

This site is awesome! BIG THANKS again! Mel On 2015-11-25

Auto Feed stopped working on my Steam Boiler, now not enough water & white smoke at chimney

Hi. Exasperated. Decent Burnham steam boiler with auto water feeder. Auto water feeder stopped working.

Plumber came out and replaced. Since it was replaced, the water level is not as high as it was before and fills every hour. Before it stayed towards the top and filled only about once/day.

There is also a lot of thick white smoke coming from chimney, which I don't recall before. I do have heat. Just worried about the number of times the water feeder turns on. Do I need to be worried? I don't think this means anything, but at same time, creosote started leaking into basement from a metal door.

Chimney guy says I have a ripped liner and he's replacing on 1/22. Just thought it was odd this all happened at once.

I only use furnace, not fireplace. Would love for you to tell me it's normal when it's this could out (it's really cold) for water to fill every hour. Thanks for your help....from a woman worrying about this by herself. 0 :On 2018-01-05 by Anne

by (mod) - sounds like a boiler leak

That white smoke would make me look first for a boiler leak into the combustion chamber.

You need steam boiler repair service from an experienced steam heat service technician.

by Anne: we are freezing and the plumber can't come till next week

I called the plumbers who worked on my system and they cannot come until Tuesday morning.

We are in a deep freeze in New England and everyone's backed up. This has been happening since Thanksgiving when the auto feeder was replaced in November,

but my gut kept telling me it wasn't right. Do you think it's the type of thing where I'm in danger sleeping here or something that can wait till they arrive on Tuesday?

by Mod

No panic needed.

Here are safety highlights

If the boiler is keeping tthe house warm,

and if the water feeder is keeping water in the boiler,

And if the relief valve is not dumping water,

And you don't see smoke or soot,

Then one more step would be Insurance of your safety,

Be sure you have Working smoke and carbon monoxide detectors properly located in sleeping areas and near the boiler.

Hydrolevel LWCO water feeder won't work automatically - should I replace it?

I have a Williamson steam boiler with a Hydrolevel LWCO and a miller daniels 24v feeder.

the LWOC seems to work but the auto feeder stays in dwell mode and doesn't feed any water.

then the boiler cycles on/off until I manually add water..should I replace the feeder?

I can manually add water which engages the solenoid and feeds water so I think the screen is clean but I will check..could it be the wiring between the LWCO and the feeder?

thats the unit..I can manually feed water into the boiler so I think the screen is ok.

Manual feed engages the solenoid so that seems good. I swapped out the electrical part of the feeder with a new one and it still does the same thing..could it be the wiring to the auto feeder?

On 2019-02-15 by rick -

by (mod) - how to test the water feeder valve

Rick

DId you take a look at the test suggestions in the water feeder manual?

Have you tried normal LWCO maintenance that includes flushing the valve and cleaning any filters or screens in the unit?

by rick

Like I said I did this and the auto feeder never gets out of dwell.

it stays in dwell and does not feed..Also as I said we swapped the electronic part of the feeder with a brand new one and had the same result

also the LWCO in brand new

Reply by (mod) -

Rick

Before replacing a LWCO (Low Water Cut Off) valve or water feeder, I'd go through the diagnosis and cleaning procedure recommended by the manufacturer as most-often that's what's needed.

I think that you water feeder might be a McDonnell & Miller automatic water feeder like the unit I show below - attach a photo of your unit and of its labeling and we can find for sure whether or not we've got the right instruction manual for it.

On at least some automatic water feeder valves or controls, if the strainer is clogged, that alone could be the trouble.

My steam boiler's automatic water feeder is not working

I have a residential steam heater that once automatically filled the water when it became low.

A service technician changed my water level sight glass.

I saw that he closed or opened several valves. Now my boiler has to be manually filled. Can I send you a picture for you to see what valve should be open or closed? (Oct 13, 2012) Frank B

Reply:

Use the email found at our CONTACT US link at page top or bottom to send photos and we'll be glad to comment further.

And see diagnosis and repair as well as maintenance advice for steam boiler water feeders

at WATER FEEDER VALVE, STEAM

Can I shut off the water feed to the boiler?

Can you run the furnace [sic - should say "boiler" as this is a steam or hot water system] with your water being shut off? On 2018-10-26 by Anonymous

by (mod) - yes but with warnings to manually keep the water level up

Hydronic heating systems and even a steam boiler can run for a time with the water feed shut off.

Watch out: However particularly be with a steam heating system, because Steam Heat always consumes some water, if you don't have an automatic or regular manual water feed to the boiler the heating system, if it's working properly, will simply shut down when the water level in the boiler becomes low - that is you will have no heat.

Watch out: More serious, if the heating boiler does not have a low water cutoff safety control and the boiler Runs Out of Water the boiler could become damaged, destroyed, or even explode.

How do I turn off my Boiler and Drain it for Summer?

I emptied my steam boiler for summer but it filled back up!

How do you shut off auto feed on steam boiler for summer when you drain it?

I emptied my steam boiler for summer but it filled back up. I am guessing that I need to turn off auto-fill but I don't know where or how. Thank you.On 2018-06-05 by Denise

by (mod) - we don't drain boilers for summer

I'm not familiar with any requirement to empty a steam boiler when it is shut down in the summer.

But an automatic water feed valve will simply re-fill the boiler automagically.

In any case to turn off the water feeder you would turn off the water supply into the water feeder and also if it's a powered unit you would disconnect its electrical power source.

Watch out: some boilers, particularly some older cast-iron models, may develop leaks if left empty.

Remove power to the device

You can also turn off the boiler's water supply.

Watch out: doing so is unsafe if you turn the boiler's burner on before the boiler is re-filled.

My steam boiler automatic water feeder isn't working - I add water every half our!

My steam boiler water feeder isn't working. I have to go down and fill it manually, then 30-40 min later go and fill it again. I had the whole thing fix a month ago. Everything was working now I have to do it myself On 2018-01-14 by ronald.lee

Reply by (mod) -

Ronald

An automatic water feeder that does not feed is often debris clogged due to lack of regular flush-out maintenance.

But

Watch out: You should not have to be feeding water to a steam boiler every half-hour. That sounds as if there is a leak somewhere in the system. Or the boiler is not being filled to the proper level.

Call your heating service company for repair.

Asco Solenoid make up water supply troubleshooting on a One pipe steam system, Watts Boiler Water Level Control Type D132A Model M.,

I have a one pipe steam system with two Hydrothermal boilers. The make up water tank has a Watts Boiler Water Level Control Type D132A Model M.

It is connected to the water gage and it is the device that triggers the Asco solenoid valve to add fresh water to the condensate tank. I was draining the system as part of the maintenance and knocked the valve and the body with a wrench, and as I suspected some malfunction, I could see an spark inside the electric box that controls the chamber.

The box has two electric wires that are regular electric wires going in and inside there are three cables (multiple tiny hairs of copper-not solid conductor like regular electric wires).

One of this cables became loose.

The other two cables seem to be connected to one end on a sealed small tube containing the mercury and which acts as a trigger or contact.

I managed to connect the cable to one of the other two terminals and it does open the solenoid valve, but it will not close it, then I am connecting it in a permanent open position and have no way to figure the circuit out. I presume it connects with the other two cables to the end of the tube. If that is the case, can it be repaired?

This is an old system, but working perfectly, other than for this aging wiring. If you have a guide on the circuitry or any suggestion, I would appreciate it. Thank you in advance for your time and consideration. Robert.

Reply:

Robert I'm sorry but I don't think I have a clear enough understanding of the condition of your water feed valve - it's a critical part for safe operation of the steam boiler, though you could, of course, shut it down and feed water every day or two manually - not at all convenient.

If there is any doubt about the condition of the valve, I'd replace it.

What's the cost to install an automatic steam boiler fill valve

My plumber tells me a auto fill for my boiler will cost $275 for valve plus $125 to install (Feb 8, 2014) Anonymous

Reply:

Anon: presuming we're discussing a steam boiler, here are two price examples to keep in mind if one were to buy an automatic water feeder:

A programmable Hydrolevel steam boiler water feeder retails for around $200.

A McDonnel & Miller Model 101A electric water feeder for a steam boiler retails for around $250. Mechanical McDonnel & Miller water feeders can be in the $500 - $800. range.

Even if the plumber is selling you the part at his cost (thus being paid nothing for the time, trouble, & cost of obtaining or stocking the item) there are bound to be some additional small expenses for plumbing fitting & supplies.

Plus labor.

Sounds to me as if you are being charged a modest price.

Hope this helps.

Diagnose Noises at Automatic Water Feeder or LWCO

Loud noise at automatic water feeder

Why is the automatic water feeder so loud? On 2018-02-11 by sharon

Reply by (mod) -

Sharon

An automatic water feeder is not, using my subjective opinion, normally loud.

So if you're hearing unusually loud noises there could be a clog or other problem with your water feeding device - a good question to bring to your heating service tech to see what she has to say.

McDonald-miller 101a-120 automatic water feeder noises

I have a McDonald-miller 101a-120 automatic water feeder and it started making noise while feeding. I replaced the cartridge & screen buy it continues. cant figure it out. bobmsoto@hoymail.com (Dec 13, 2014)

Reply:

It may be necessary to further disassemble and clean the unit. But first check to see if the noise is an artifact of the water feed speed - try just slightly changing the stop valve ahead of the water feeder. Let me know what happens to the noise.

Water feeder short cycles on and off and Rattles - M/M 101A water feeder and a Series 67 LWCO

I have a M/M 101A water feeder and a Series 67 LWCO. When the cutoff activates it, the feeder goes on for a couple seconds and then the float turns it off.

Sometimes it rattles on and off. Is this the feed or the cutoff problem?

I wish there was some type of setting to put so much water in. I believe the newer ones have that? (Jan 3, 2016) Dan s

Reply:

Dan

It might be that the LWCO needs cleaning; some models include an internal screen that is cleaned - that's a step beyond the standard regular LWCO flush-out.

Daniel Friedman