Questions and answers about how far to keep recessed light fixtures from insulation, framing, sheathing, or combustibles.

This article series describes recessed light (downlight, pot light) clearance distances or spacing from insulation or wood or other combustibles in building ceilings, other indoor spaces or outdoors in roofs, soffits, porches.

Recessed Light Clearance Distance & Electrical Code Q&As

These questions and answers about the required fire clearance distance for various types of recessed lighting fixtures were posted originally at RECESSED LIGHT CLEARANCES - be sure to review the codes and guides given there.

On 2018-03-19 by (mod) - details on using the Illume light in a fire-rated ceiling

Thanks, Ben for the additional details - that will certainly help other readers.

On 2018-03-18 by Ben

Thank you for the detailed review, it is very helpful and more detailed than I expected. I did some more research and have a few comments.

- I asked on the Home Depot webpage whether the illume light was rated for use in a fire rated ceiling and illume came back and said no.

- Intertek is also a valid listing company, so the fixture doesn't have to be specifically UL listed.

- I don't think IFAO is the correct UL category, because it only relates to hazards from electrical and heat generation in causing a fire (not resisting a fire). I did some digging starting with the IFAO category found these: HYXT (luminairs and fittings), CDHW (fire rated lighting and accessories), BXUV (fire resistance ratings), XHEZ (fire stop systems).

Based on these, there are three ways to maintain the ceilings fire rating: 1-a fixture or accessory in category CDHW; 2-use a fire stop method in XHEZ; 3- (see Part III.6) use a steel electrical box and any light fixture that is installed in an electrical box.

- Ontario Regulation 332-12 section 3.1.9.3.6 states the same as UL category XHEZ Part III.6, that steel electrical boxes are ok with a few restrictions on clearance around the box and total area of box per ceiling area.

- I am probably going to use metal electrical boxes and Halo SMD6R6930WH-C low profile surface mount lites that install in a junction box. This is the only way that is clearly documented. There are some large pot lite boxes in CDHW for new construction, but nothing I could see that would work for retrofit.

On 2018-03-04 by (mod) -

Ben

To have space for illustrations and citations I repeat your question and give a detailed reply in RECESSED LIGHT CLEARANCES .

Please take a look and let me know what questions remain.

You may need to clear your browser cache and it may take 24 hours for the updated page to appear.

On 2018-03-03 by Ben - maintaining the fire rating of the ceiling

Hi My question was specifically about maintaining the fire rating of the ceiling, not related to any fire hazard related directly to the light (e.g. heat). The specific fixture I want to use is illume I-EL4PPWH. This requires cutting a 5 to 6" hole in the fire rated drywall.

If I left the hole un-filled the fire rating of the ceiling would be compromised. Does installing this fixture maintain the fire rating of the ceiling? I have read in my local building code (Ontario) that holes can be cut as long as a "tightly fitting" electrical box is installed.

The LED fixture seems solid and has a solid metal backing plate, so would probably not allow the passage of flame in the event of a fire.

I have also read on some forums (USA based) indicate a maximum of 100sq.in can be cut in 100sq.ft of ceiling area (I assume there still needs to be something blocking the hole such as an electrical box).

There are also a few methods (big metal box and an insulated hat from "tenmat") that are used for the can+trim+bulb type pot lites.

On 2018-02-26 by (mod) - Can IC rated LED retrofit fixtures be installed in a 1hr rated ceiling and maintain the ceiling's fire rating?

Ben,

I'm not sure and I think we need some clarification before doing more research. In particular the fire rating of a ceiling is in my view a separate measurement from a recessed light that is DC IC rated. That is the DC I see light is rated for installation in an insulated ceiling in direct contact with insulation without causing a fire hazard.

That's a separate issue from the fire rating of the ceiling. An LED light will generally run cooler then an incandescent bulb. So if you see a light fixture that's rated for a 60 watt incandescent bulb, you're likely to be safe installing an LED bulb with an equivalent number of lumens.

On 2018-02-26 by Ben

Can IC rated LED retrofit fixtures be installed in a 1hr rated ceiling and maintain the ceiling's fire rating?

On 2017-05-19 by (mod) - Do you have to use a IC rated can for an LED light ?

Excellent question, Dennis.

In my OPINION, yes, because we have no control over what sort of bulb someone might screw into the ceiling pot light at some time in the future.

Watch out: Someone could replace an LED bulb or fluorescent bulb later with a traditional incandescent bulb, risking a fire.

On 2017-05-19 by Dennis

Do you have to use a IC rated can for an LED light ?

On 2016-12-21 by (mod) - selecting a fixture that fits and meets fire clearance requirements

Yes, select a fixture that fits and meets fire clearance requirements as we discuss at RECESSED LIGHT CLEARANCES .

There are 4", 5" and 6" units that will fit in the 7 1/2" space afforded by a 2x8 ceiling joist.

On 2016-12-21 by Anonymous - Can I put a can light in 2×8 ceiling joists?

Can I put a can light in 2×8 ceiling joists?

On 2016-07-08 by (mod) - need for risk assessment

I agree about the need for risk assessment. I would probably find the input connections for that ceiling panel and disable them there.

While my research did not find scholarly articles specifically pointing to electric radiant-heat ceilings it does find the fundamental observation that in managing fire risk in buildings an assessment of all of the electrical wiring and devices is very important.

Ceiling heat is not an unusual fire hazard per-se in my opinion, but it is, when electric, at greater risk of being subverted by people who come along later and chop holes without understanding what they're doing.

On 2016-07-08 by Dan

Mod

Thanks for your comment.

One of the licensed electrician cut the whole in my ceiling and mentioned that heat will not work only in that area. It is now tough for me to assume that there is no risk.

Worst case , I am thinking to cut connection to thermostats that provides electricity to ceiling heat.

Will this require pulling permit?

Previous electricians also mentioned that ceiling heat is fire hazard.

So I don't want to take any risk by supplying power to it and allowing anyone to turn on in future.

Better I can think of energy efficient heating system to eliminate ceiling heat wires risk.

Does it sound OK?

Question: locate an 6 inch IC rated recessed ceiling light can within one inch of black iron gas pipe?

(Feb 5, 2014) Anonymous said:
Is it safe to locate an 6 inch IC rated recessed ceiling light can within one inch of black iron gas pipe?

Reply: Bonding of the hot, cold, and gas lines is required when the electrical panel is replaced

Anon,

While I could not find an explicit citation, that should be OK.

There are some clearance specs for gas piping in other locations;

Outdoors: Six inches minimum clearance between the gas pipe and the electric conduit
(primary or secondary) is required in gas main trenches.

And there are clearance requirements between gas METER and the electric panel (typically 36")

Make sure your gas piping is properly bonded to the grounding system

Bonding - Bonding of the hot, cold, and gas lines is required when the electrical panel is replaced. Bonding of the hot, cold, and gas lines is required with water service replacements (if using a less conductive material than is existing) and for all re-pipes.

Bonding shall consist of a continuous bond jumper installed at the water heater between the hot, cold, and gas lines. MEtal underground piping, however, is not used as a grounding electrode.

Question: Can I install sheet metal above can light ?

(Sept 16, 2014) Tim said:
Can I install sheet metal above can light. thought being the metal would disperse heat and there wouldn't be a combustible material issue.

Reply: doubtful

Tim

Depending on the type and design of your can light, covering it over may increase heat within the light fixture. If it's a DCIC thermally protected light you may find it turning itself off if you increase its heat level, though it would in that case still be "safe".

If your light is one that specifies to keep insulation back some distance from the fixture, covering it with anything may also violate the manufacturer's instructions for the same reasons - heat build-up.

Question: requirement for supporting frame for add-on recessed ceiling lights

(Feb 10, 2016) Colin Greene said:
i am finishing my basement. I have purchased about 20 ceiling lights that are called Globe Electric 90733 4 inch LED IC Rated Swivel Spotlight Recessed Lighting Kit. They essentially go in with a simple push AFTER the drywall.

However, the inspector says they must have a frame that attaches to the beams overhead or he won't pass my rough-in inspection.

Is this correct? Must new construction lights be supported by a frame? If so, i'll do it, but I don't understand why the frame would be required - and it adds a substantial cost to the project with 20 lights. thank you for any insight.

Reply:

Colin:

The local building inspector is the final legal authority on code compliance. However if you have documentation regarding your light fixtures and their installation that shows that the installation method is listed and approved by the model codes she or he (the inspector) may be satisfied.

Alternatively you may satisfy the inspector by providing a design document or plan signed by a licensed design professional such as your architect or engineer.

Question: forgot to install cover plate on electrical box

(June 4, 2016) Joe W said:

Hi. I finished installing a ceiling fan in my dining room. I replaced the center recessed lighting can and put a support brace between the joists. When I finished cleaning up I found the face plate cover to the side electrical housing for the light that I had initially removed.

Do I need to remove the entire fan and close up that housing? Thanks for any comments.

Reply:

I'm not sure exactly what we're looking at, Joe, but if the (properly-supported) ceiling box and all wiring are completely covered by the metal of the fan housing I don't think the original box cover was needed at all.

(June 5, 2016) Anonymous said:

Thanks for the reply. Sorry, let me be more clear: I removed the cover to a metal square box that housed the lighting for one of the light cans.

The neutral and hot wires to that box continue on through a metal clad cable, which now goes through a metal octagonal electrical box that I installed across a support bar. After clean up I realized I never replaced the surface cover to the square box in the ceiling so I wasn't sure if I needed to take down the fan and replace the cover. I hope I'm being clear. Thanks for any help!

Reply:

Ah. Sorry to be obtuse but I still don't have the whole picture (you can send photos to us using our page top or bottom CONTACT link). Yes if you left a metal box now serving as a junction box in the ceiling, that is, it's open face is not covered by the fan, it needs to be enclosed with its cover. The purpose of the box cover is to contain sparks or heating components that might occur in the event of a malfunction, thus containing, preventing, or at least delaying a fire.

Also keep in mind that you don't want to (and by electrical code can't) bury an electrical junction box so that it can't be seen. Usually in a ceiling you're ok if the box can still be accessed from an attic above.

(June 5, 2016) Joe said:
I think you answered the question. Junction box is not enclosed. I need to get in there and close it up. Check.

Appreciate the help

Question: ok for IC-rated fixture to touch wood framing?

(June 20, 2016) Michael said:

I have a similar question. I am installing 4" recessed remodel cans with LED lights. The housing is IC rated. There is no insulation in the ceiling but the housing would touch the wooden joist and a insulated heating conduct. IC rating says contact with ceiling insulation, but I have contact with wood and heating conduct insulation. Is this safe?

Reply: Clearances for Recessed Luminaires that are rated as Type-IC

IC-rated (Insulation-contact-rated) recessed luminaries (light fixtures or "pot lights" in normal-speak) are allowed zero clearance to combustible materials and are allowed to contact thermal insulation - Section 410-66, Clearance and Installation. National Electrical Code, NFPA 70-1999 (Quincy, MA: National Fire Protection Association, 1999), p70-233.

Watch out: check the manufacturer's stamping, rating, and clearance distances specified for your specific light fixture. For example, a "convertible" IC/Non-IC fixture has different requirements and may require 1/2" clearance to combustibles and may have other restrictions.

Clearances for Recessed Luminaries that are Non-Type IC:

A recessed fixture that is not identified for contact with insulation shall have all recessed parts spaced at least 1/2 in. (12.7mm) from combustible materials. The points of support and the trim finishing off the opening in the ceiling or wall surface shall be permitted to be in contact with combustible materials.

Thermal insulation shall not be installed above a recessed fixture or within 3 in. (76mm) of the recessed fixture enclosure, wiring compartment, or ballast, unless it is identified for contact with insulation, Type IC. - Section 410-66, Clearance and Installation. National Electrical Code, NFPA 70-1999 (Quincy, MA: National Fire Protection Association, 1999), p70-233.

You will argue that you're using LED bulbs so your light fixture will operate at a cooler temperature than if an incandescent bulb were installed. But Mike, we can't control what sort of bulb someone may install into those fixtures in the future, so we need to follow the NEC if we're following U.S. guidelines, or if you live in another country, we need to follow that country's electrical code as a minimum safety standard.

Thanks for asking, I'll include your question and add details in the article above.

(June 20, 2016) Michael said:
Thank you for your respond!

My can is Type IC and the connector inside the can is specially for LED. I am in CA.
Did I understand you right that IC rated cans can be installed by having contact with combustible materials?
thanks again!

Question: Is it OK if Recessed lights are installed on Radiant Heat Ceiling?

2016/07/05

Dan said:

Is it OK if Recessed lights are installed on Radiant Heat Ceiling? (assuming that 6 inch holes made on ceiling will break heat elements connection in that part of ceiling). Can it be a problem with City Inspection ?

Reply: No. The heat won't work in that area and you risk creating an electrical hazard

I cannot imagine how such a system would

1. work

2. be safe

You're damaging the radiant heat panels and preventing them from working, possibly also creating short circuits that risk fire.

I can't speak for your local building inspectors, whose word is law where you live, but I'd be worried about this idea.

There may also be problems with recessed lights installed in a radiant heat ceililng even if you avoid cutting heating circuits, as there may be more heat than the light fixtures are designed to recognize and handle.

Dan said:

The radiant ceiling has heating elements sandwiched between drywalls.

So if particular area is cut, elements in that area are broken meaning electric current will not flow from those elements.

Any thoughts ?

Reply:

Right so you are preventing heat from working and risking a short circuit as well; more, depending on how the radiant heat ceiling was wired - in series for example - cutting into it could shut down the whole system.

Worse, You cannot assume quite that "no current will flow" where you cut. For example the metallic can of a recessed ceiling light can easily short together elements that are not intended.

I would give a call to the manufacturer of your ceiling to discuss this concern.

It may be possible that the ceiling wiring layout includes open spaces with no wires that would permit installation of recessed lights.

Dan said:
Thanks for your comment.

One of the licensed electrician cut the whole in my ceiling and mentioned that heat will not work only in that area. It is now tough for me to assume that there is no risk.

Worst case , I am thinking to cut connection to thermostats that provides electricity to ceiling heat.

Will this require pulling permit?

Previous electricians also mentioned that ceiling heat is fire hazard.

So I don't want to take any risk by supplying power to it and allowing anyone to turn on in future.

Better I can think of energy efficient heating system to eliminate ceiling heat wires risk.

Does it sound OK?

(mod) said:

I agree about the need for risk assessment. I would probably find the input connections for that ceiling panel and disable them there.

While my research did not find scholarly articles specifically pointing to electric radiant-heat ceilings it does find the fundamental observation that in managing fire risk in buildings an assessment of all of the electrical wiring and devices is very important.

Ceiling heat is not an unusual fire hazard per-se in my opinion, but it is, when electric, at greater risk of being subverted by people who come along later and chop holes without understanding what they're doing.

...

Continue reading  at RECESSED LIGHT CLEARANCES or select a topic from the closely-related articles below, or see the complete ARTICLE INDEX.

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