FP Panels: Federa Pioneer electrical panel hazards warnings

This article discusses possible hazards of the Federal Pioneer Stab-Lok® electrical panel, a Canadian version of the Federal Pacific Electric Stab-Lok® equipment.

Replacement FPE Stab-Lok® circuit breakers are unlikely to reduce the failure risk of this equipment. We recommend that residential FPE Stab-Lok® electrical panels be replaced entirely or the entire panel bus assembly be replaced, regardless of FPE model number or FPE year of manufacture. We do not sell circuit breakers nor any other products.

What Are Canadian Federal Pioneer Electrical Panel or Breaker Concerns?

These questions & answers about FP Stab-Lok panels in Canada were posted originally at FP FEDERAL PIONEER in CANADA - please be sure to review that article.

Readers should also see FEDERAL PIONEER PANEL SAFETY for a discussion of the safety of older and more recently made Federal Pioneer equipment.

These discussions pertain only to the Federal Pioneer Stab-Lok® electrical equipment brand made in Canada, not to the Federal Pacific Stab-Lok® brand made and installed in the United States.

On 2018-11-02 by (mod) - electrician reports FP Stab-Lok failures

Mike

Thank you very much for your field report of your own experience. It will be helpful to other readers.

On 2018-11-02 by Mike C - Many in the industry joke that you could weld with a circuit on a FP stab lok.

I'm a journeyman electrician and I have seen, far more often than not, a Stab-Lok breaker fail to trip when it should (hot and neutral tied together, et. c.)

Many in the industry joke that you could weld with a circuit on a stab lok.

I recently noticed that my parents log cabin has two of these old stab lok panels in it- an accident waiting to happen... those will be coming out ASAP! thanks for the information.

On 2018-02-12 by (mod) - Canadian FP Stab-Lok circuit breaker keeps tripping

Mark:

If a breaker is tripping sooner than it should it's failing in a safe direction - thank goodness for that.

I would look carefully at the actual current draw on the circuit - that could be the problem.

Watch out: touching anything inside an electrical panel can kill you - keep out unless you're trained in how to change breakers or measure current.

On 2018-02-12 by (mod) - Canadian FP breakers are under-represented in testing to date

Perry,

You can use the page top or bottom CONTACT link to give me contact information.

I've asked (by private email) Dr. Aronstein if he can add your breakers to his test plan - Canadian FP breakers are under-represented in testing to date. I'll pay any shipping costs if Dr. A. can do the tests. We'd of course share the results.

Thanks

Daniel

On 2018-02-12 by Mark

It seems that I have an opposite situation. My stab-lok 150A breaker trips at 60A. My application is running 3/5 furnace elements only.

The breaker heats and trips over serveral minutes. The conductor is #4 Awg so that is not the source of the heat. I believe there is not sufficient surface area on the bayonets to pass the current. I have also replaced the breaker, same issue.

On 2017-05-02 by Perry - Ontario Report of FP Stab-Lok breaker failure

I just replaced my entire 200 amp Federal Pioneer electrical panel. The panel was installed in 1991 and includes a complete assortment of breakers including many 2 pole breakers and several of the recalled and non recalled "blue" coloured 15amp single pole breakers. I also have several new breakers that have never been used.

I am located in Ontario, Canada. I had an incident last summer where an electrical wire was cut during some remodeling work by a contractor. The contractor said there was a big arc flash when the wire was cut and it continued to spark after it was cut. We did not understand why the breaker did not trip at the time.

I came across this site doing some research into the panel. I have since replaced the entire panel. You are welcome to any of breakers that I have or pictures of the panel etc. Let me know if you are interested.

On 2017-04-07 by John J Hazel

I will see what I can contribute.

On 2017-04-07 by (mod) - Hazellikes FP Breakers

You are absolutely right, John. And if you are willing and able to contribute FP breakers for testing we will reimburse shipping cost to the test lab - Dr Aronstein.

See also CAN'T AFFORD A NEW ELECTRIC PANEL? - at https://inspectapedia.com/fpe/FPE_Replacement_Financial_Aid.php as there are suggestions beyond the (best approach) FPE or FP panel replacement option

On 2017-04-06 by John J Hazel

I think it would be interesting to test a batch of new Federal Pioneers and see just what the results are.

I am certainly not going to say that others have not experienced Stab-Lok or imitation Stab-Lok breakers falling out the panels or being loose.

I am simply saying that with the 25 Stab-Lok panels that I have seen here, all breakers are tight. My experience is as valid as anyone else's. Federal Pioneers are my best option at this time. I do not have $40,000 to change out 26 Stab-Lok panels.

On 2017-04-06 by (mod) -

John

Use the search box on any InspectApedia page to search for FP circuit breaker hazards or better, take a look at the ARTICLE INDEX to FPE STAB-LOK BREAKERS & PANELS given above for a more complete listing of information you seek.

To date independent testing finds that the performance of Canadian Stab-lok circuit breakers and replacements sold for them have performed no better than the American versions.

We have explained in various articles on this topic that regarding Canadian FP breakers and panels,

- we have fewer failure reports for FP breakers in Canadian installations

- we don't have data on the number of such installations that would enable a distinction between a smaller total sample, different electrical installation practices, fewer hazard occurrences, vs. an actual difference in no-trip rate

- the number of FP breakers tested to date is a too-small sample but that field reports certainly confirm that similar no-trip failures and other FP panel problems (loose breakers, breakers falling out) occur as with FPE

- though we asked the manufacturer for information, we were not able to obtain any indication of any differences in product design, manufacturer tests, test performance for the Canadian product - the original FP / FPE breakers include innate design problems, and at least

in the U.S. fabricators, quite well documented quality control, labeling fraud, and other concerns that appear to be part of the or key in the no-trip problem as well as jamming breakers and breakers that remain "on" internally" while switched off

On 2017-04-06 by John J Hazel

I do have the link showing the dismal test results for the UBI's. If you could supply the link where there are test results for Federal Pioneers from Schneider Electric in Canada, that would be much appreciated. Thank you for responding to my comments.

A 50% failure to trip for brand new Federal Pioneer Stab-Lok breakers made in Canada that are CSA approved ?

On 2017-04-06 by Anonymous

John,

Thank you for your interesting comments.

They form a nice example of an important point which is that our personal opinion or personal experience are often not a valid statistical sample. As we have reported independent expert testing finds a roughly 50% failure to trip rate for the product that in your experience has performed fine

On 2017-04-06 by John J Hazel

When Stab-Lok or the Connecticut Electric UBI type F breakers are properly installed, they are a very tight fit. We visually verify that each breaker is 'all the way' in. It takes a bit of effort with the UBI type F's and the Federal Pioneers. I prefer to use the Federal Pioneers because in my personal experience, they trip when required to do so.

On 2016-08-27 by Phil

I don't quitte understand why Schneider who also sells SquareD breakers (which I think are fine) still pushes the sales of these Stab-Lok panels (At least until a few years ago as I have seen these panels for sale in hardware stores) and breakers which have been known as hazardous for more than 30 years in the US.

I also don't understand why so many electricians in my area have installed them. I am not an electrician but I had to help friends with a few of the newer Stab-Lok panels (one had even been fitted with a mix of new and old FPE breakers by an electrician who had just replaced the whole panel after it was recommended by a home inspector. He did a lousy job with even one (aluminum!) wire going from one breaker to another one and making a loop in a bedroom without being connected to anything else than two breakers!

As others reported, the breakers didn't stay in their slot and the panel cover did the job of keeping them in place! I can't believe that an electrician leaves a home and bills a customer after doing such a terrible installation.

The only positive thing I could see with these panels is that they don't take much space compared to some older 200 amp panels that I'm familiar with. But I think it's an unacceptable choice for any new installation.

On 2016-03-13 by (mod) -

Weley, I would want to replace the panel if it were in my home.

You're welcome to use the page top or bottom CONTACT link to send me sharp photos of the panel, breakers, labels, and other components and I'd be glad to comment further.

Daniel

On 2016-03-12 by Wesley

I have a federal pioneer Stab-lok BE116-32-1C125. I don't see a date of manufacture. The breakers seem to slide up and down fairly easily on the bus bar. Not sure if this is normal. What info would you want?

On 2015-09-21 by Maureen

I am desperately looking for a cover panel for our Federal Pioneer breaker box. needs to be 12/24 120/240 No main 100 amp

Our electrician can't complete his upgrade without the cover plate, & the original wasn't in the home when we purchased it. Where can I find one.

Thanks for the help in advance.
Maureen

On 2015-06-09 by (mod) -

Thank you for the field report, David.

Certainly it's not the case that there is a 100% failure rate with the product.

It was unfortunate that the present manufacturer / distributor in Canada decided that they could or would not release any information about the product's manufacture, design, performance, or what if any changes were made from the U.S. FPE product.

That makes some folks properly cautious. I've also pointed out that we have less data about the performance of the Canadian-sold product so all field reports are helpful even though a visual observation or a "no trouble seen" report does not assure that the product is actually safe.

On 2015-06-08 by David

Correction to my previous post.the two panels are in tandem with 60 amps total. The other apartment has a Square D newer panel also 60 amps. Thanks again

I have two forty to fifty year old FederalPacific stablok panels in a 1926 duplex in Toronto with a125 amp service (60 to each panel). I have been the owner for 15 years with no problems. There have been many overloads (primarily kitchen) over the years...maybe 20 or so. The breakers always tripped.

After reading your article, I was very concerned and took the covers off the panels. I saw no signs of scorching so I actually removed some of the breakers to look at the contacts. No signs of scorching. It was difficult to get the breakers out. They did not fall out of the panel. I looked closely at the breakers and noticed 2 with small pieces chipped of near the contacts.

Other than that everything looked good to me. I'm not however an electrician. Something else I noticed is each breaker said Federal Electric and also manufactured in Toronto by Mitchell Manufacturing. Thanks for your article. If any of your researchers wants to have a look let me know. Davidmrm@gmail.com

...

Continue reading at FP FEDERAL PIONEER in CANADA or select a topic from the closely-related articles below, or see the complete ARTICLE INDEX.

Or see FEDERAL PACIFIC FPE HAZARD SUMMARY documentation of hazards associated with Stab-Lok circuit breakers & panels

Or see these

Recommended Articles

• CHALLENGER ELECTRIC PANELS where an apparently-identical FPE Stab-Lok breaker is discussed.
• CIRCUIT BREAKER FAILURE RATES
• COUNTERFEIT FPE CIRCUIT BREAKERS
• FEDERAL PACIFIC FPE HAZARDS - home
• FP FEDERAL PIONEER in CANADA
  • FEDERAL PIONEER CIRCUIT BREAKER RECALL
  • FEDERAL PIONEER ELECTRIC PANEL IDENTIFY
  • FEDERAL PIONEER PANEL SAFETY

Suggested citation for this web page

FEDERAL PIONEER ELECTRIC PANEL FAQs at InspectApedia.com - online encyclopedia of building & environmental inspection, testing, diagnosis, repair, & problem prevention advice.

Or see this

INDEX to RELATED ARTICLES: ARTICLE INDEX to FPE STAB-LOK BREAKERS & PANELS

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