Septic system design, installation, maintenance & repair guide questions & answers #6:

These septic system articles explain how to buy, inspect, install, test, diagnose maintain and repair septic tanks, drainfields, and all other components of all types of septic systems. Page top: a peat mound septic system in Two Harbors, MN.

Septic System Buy, Install, Test, Repair Q&A-7

These questions & answers were posted originally at SEPTIC SYSTEM INSPECT DIAGNOSE REPAIR - the home page for an extensive library of onsite wastewater treatment and disposal systems.

On 2016-11-16 by (mod) - do not pour hydorchloric acid into the septic system

No.

On 2016-11-16 by Kathy

Is it safe to use hydrochloric acid in a septic system?

On 2016-10-13 by Howard

In in my new to me house I have a system with a Blue Diamond ET 80 A air pump. According to the previous owner the pump is about 2 years old.

The pump noise is driving me crazy! Using an Iphone app I measured the sound level at 85DB. Is this normal? If the pump need to be replaced can you recommend an ultra quiet pump ?

On 2016-10-10 by (mod) - what to put into drains and toilet bowl to winterize a home?

I'd prefer to remove the water from bowl and toilet tank, traps, etc. You could use food grade antifreeze such as is used in RVs.

Please search InspectApedia.com for WINTERIZE HEAT OFF to read a detailed series of steps to protect your home from freeze damage.

On 2016-10-10 by mred

If need to winterize my home (unheated) what is it safe toput into the drains and the toilet bowl? I doubt it'sokto use antifreeze or salt. Sugar syrup?

On 2016-10-05 by norman

Is it important that the tank is vented?

On 2016-09-20 by (mod) - installing a drainfield on a hillside

Rick, there are suggestions at STEEP SLOPE SEPTIC DESIGNS https://inspectapedia.com/septic/Steep_Slope_Septic_Designs.php that may help you out, depending on how steep the slope actually is.

"Best septic" is not something one can specify by a brief e-text. The type of septic needed depends on the number of building occupants but also on the soil conditions (search InspectApedia for SOIL PERC TESTS), and the space available.

On installing just a sewage holding tank, most jurisdictions will not permit a holding tank except as a temporary measure, or on occasion by special permit such as for a property abutting a river or stream.

Your planned temporary occupancy needs to be weighed by the local building department against the required building standards for a home that could be occupied full time. One owner's part time use might be followed by someone else's full time use; Furthermore, even in part time use, the septic system has to be sized sufficiently to handle the maximum or peak usage.

You might consider, and ask if your local authorities will approve, a waterless toilet system such as those discussed at TOILETS, WATERLESS ALTERNATIVES https://inspectapedia.com/septic/Toilets_Waterless.php

On 2016-09-20 by rick

I have 3.9 acres that I want to put a small ( 900 sq ft ) cabin on.
The property had a slight slope and the cabin will be at the bottom
of the slope.

What is the best septic system to put here since we will only use
it about once a month?
I have heard of a tank system that can be pumped every so often.
Not sure what that is or if code will allow it.
What do you think?

Thanks Rick

On 2016-09-03 by (mod) - Grayson County Health Department,

Anonymous:

Please give the Grayson County Tx health department in Sherman a call or stop by with this question, as local sanitary codes will apply where you live.

Grayson County Health Department,
515 N Walnut St, Sherman, TX 75090, United States
Phone:+1 903-893-0131

On 2016-09-02 by (mod) - self cleaning toilet cakes or products

Loren:

I tried those "self-cleaning" products a few years back - leading to the following opinion:

1. "self-deodorizing" is a more accurate term that "self-cleaning" since the bleach won't scrub off fecal markings in the toilet bowl

2. depending on the frequency of toilet use and thus the concentration of bleach in the flush water, high bleach concentrate in the toilet tank damaged the flapper valves on some low-use toilets

3. at normal usage levels the amount of chlorine discharged into the septic tank ought to make no difference to its operation

On 2016-08-31by Anonymous

Does Grayson county, in Texas allow this system? thank you for letting me know

On 2016-08-31 by Loren

I have installed a Self-Cleaning Toilet System on our 3 toilets which consists of a small water tight container which sits inline with the water line that fills the bowl (not the tank).

You put a 1" chlorine tablet inside the container and each time you flush a small amount of the slowly dissolved tablet is placed in the toilet bowl, effectively keeping you bowl clean.

We are on a septic system, should I be concerned about this small amount of chlorine going into the septic system with each flush? Would bromine tablets be better for a septic system? Thank You.

On 2016-08-25 by Norm Lajeunesse

I live in a cold climate area (near Sudbury, Ontario, Canada) and wonder if my septic tank is at risk of freezing? It is a concrete tank and is flush with the ground. I have lived at my present home for 5 years and never had any problems with my septic system in the winter before.

I have noticed this summer that there was a hole in the ground on the outlet side of the tank, and when I dug around the hole to inspect, noticed that the outlet pipe had become loose (the pipe is 3-in, and the outlet hole in the concrete tank is 6-in diameter.)

The outlet pipe was connected to a 3-in 90 deg elbow which connects to the pipe which goes to the distribution box (I did not expose that however.) The elbow was also loose from the horizontal pipe which goes to the DB. I am wondering if the dislodging of the outlet pipe and elbow may have been caused by ground frost movement? Any thoughts?
Thanks

On 2016-08-12 by (mod) - permitted doesn't mean no-septic maintenance required

Your mom did not, from what I can read in your note, receive accurate, useful information.

Furthermore, burying a septic tank under concrete is improper, rendering it inaccessible;
The result increases the chance of an early drainfield failure as it's pumping the tank on schhedule (Search InspectApedia.com for SEPTIC TANK PUMPING SCHEDULE) that extends drainfield life.

"Permitted by the city" doesnt tell me enough; IMO no permit should have been issued for what you describe. But "you can't sue city hall". And I'm doubtful about collecting from a contractor who did something 12 years ago.

You might consider having the septic tank abandoned and installing a new one, or giving an allowance for that purpose rather than aggravating yourselves with litigation and fouling up the sale of your home. A related concern is the remaining life of the drainfield.

On 2016-08-12 by (mod) - they told my mom the septic would not need service for 15 years or more

Re-posting

AUTHOR:Nicole (no email)

COMMENT:We are selling our home with a septic tank & just discovered it is 4ft from the spa & buried under 4ft of cement with no access.

We took the home over from my mom & she says it was acceded & she was told it wouldn't need to be serviced for 15 years.

That was in 2004. I'm guessing it was serviced prior to the cement being poured. Everything was permitted by the city. Who is responsible for such a negligent mistake?

On 2016-07-26 by (mod) - Is there an additive to add to ones septic tank or should one be adding anything to it at all?

Yes, but no.

Additives are not necessary for conventional septic systems, some can do harm and some are illegal.

Please see complete details starting at the septic tank additive and treatment topic, found by searching InspectApedia

for SEPTIC TANK ADDITIVES or TREATMENTS

On 2016-07-26 by Sharon Valentine

Is there an additive to add to ones septic tank or should one be adding anything to it at all?

On 2016-07-10 by (mod) -

You will want to hire a local plumber or septic company who have experience with tracking down plumbing vent problems and septic system problems.

On 2016-07-08 by monica

thank you Dan
yes of course it does
any companies you could recommend..?

On 2016-07-07 by (mod) - any valid reason I should be smelling sewage at the site of tank

Monica it sounds as if I'm stepping in sewage with this question, as "valid reason" is a confusing label.

If you mean does sewage odor mean something is wrong and needs to be fixed, of course.

On 2016-07-07 by monica

I purchased a home and the county required a bigger tank size
(1250 gallons) the seller was required to do this before closing
the 1250 gallon was not available for 2 months and seller did not want to wait

so with no disclosure to ANYONE (county, realty agents or purchaser seller ordered 1500 gallon tank
septic co. was unable put it in where the smaller tank had been so AGAIN with no disclosure to anyone had septic co. install larger tank about 15'to the right and 3' down on the other side of a retaining wall

since the ground at the original site of tank was disturbed we were none the wiser
UNTIL we began working outside in the yard about 2 weeks after closing and could smell a strong sewage odor

3 months later the smell is still with us septic co. has sealed large lid at top of tank with caulk (3 weeks ago) it did not help and they have not been back in contact

No one has been able to tell me any reason why this isn't a major problem
the old tank was pumped collapsed and buried the odor is not present at this site
the leach field were not replaced at time of new tank install but found to be in working order by county inspector

a septic certificate was issued
Here is the question

Do you know of any valid reason I should be smelling sewage at the site of tank install at this point?

On 2016-07-06 by (mod) - Why doesn't our septic tank ever develop a scum layer?

RS
If you are looking into the interior of an outlet baffle from above you won't see the scum layer because it's being blocked - kept away from the outlet pipe opening by the baffle.

If you inspect the tank through a center cleanout you will most likely see a scum layer. With just two people in a home with careful use of septic system as you describe you are at a 5.9 year tank pumping interval - all else being equal;

When the tank is pumped, be on-hand and with help from your pumping company -and with care as leaning over or falling into a septic tank is usually fatal - take another look at the scum layer.

I would be worried about backwashing a lot of salt into a septic system. Gayman and probably others have written about the deletrious effect salt on septic soakbed life.

Good going on keeping oils out of the septic tank - that increases its performance and perhaps field life. Same with garbage disposer.

It sounds as if your water softening system may be straining on your water supply; it might be worth a review with an onsite expert: hardness and daily usage volumes would determine the type and size of water system needed.

On 2016-07-06 by rsd

Why doesn't our septic tank ever develop a scum layer? At least, not visible at outlet side of tank.

It is a 1000 gal tank, just two people in the house, 4 years old, never yet been pumped out with little sludge developing in the bottom of the tank.

We have extremely hard water and the softener recharges every 3 to 4 days, hence a lot of salt in the system.

The screen at outlet becomes clogged with heavy black stuff and has to be cleaned every 6 months; at 8 to 10 months it would otherwise be completely clogged.

We do not allow any oil or grease down the drains and do not use the garbage disposal.
Any thoughts?

On 2016-05-30 by (mod) -

Dann

Unfortunately, pumping out a septic tank will **never ever** fix a clogged drain nor a failing drainfield. But yes it makes good sense to check first for a clogged vent line. Sometimes insects build a nest that blocks the line and on occasion I've found frogs, birds, even mice in vent pipes.

On 2016-05-29 by Dann Makins

Yes, we have a septic system. We just had it pumped out because of gurgling sounds from the bath tub drain, after flushing the toilet. Still gurgling! Also, when several loads of laundry are done, there is suds in the toilet bowl! This bathroom is sharing the laundry room drain system. Could a vent pipe be clogged on this side of the house?

On 2016-05-01 by Carole

I'm testing my septic system for a title V inspection. They have found the tank and are unable thus far to find the D box. They have dug out several feet, but no luck. Any advice on how to find it? Is it possible there is no box? The system was put in 40 years ago, and it has been well maintained with never a problem.

On 2016-04-25 by (mod) -

Other readers: Ken's question about frequency of septic filter pumping began in Dec 2015.

Ken

Thanks for an important and technically interesting question. Rather than just lying, I'll admit: I don't know the answer. I think that the claims for required septic filter cleaning (at least when they say infrequent) may be a bit marketing oriented. I think that monthly cleaning is probably normal.

And I suggest that the following factors may affect the filter cleaning frequency requirement:

- the septic tank design: a single compartment tank will require filter cleaning more often than a two or more-compartment septic tank that allows sludge settlement in the first compartment while discharging clarified eflluent to downstream compartments.

- the design of the septic effluent filter. Some filters *claim* that the filter can go "for several years before needing cleaning" (PF-122 from septicsolutions.net) while others of which I've read specs say "clean monthly".

- the rated capacity of the septic filter for daily wastewater inflow (gallons) vs. the actual daily wastewater inflow volume
E.g. from thenaturalhome.com "Our septic filter has 80 lineal feet of filtration area for up to 800 gallons per day treatment volume."

- the size of the septic tank

- the type of septic system: anything that agitates the wastewater such as an aerobic aeration pump will vastly incrase the rate at which the outlet filter needs cleaning

- the daily wastewater inflow volume total - more inflow = more tank agitation

- the thickness of the floating scum layer - thicker causing faster filter clogging as inflowing wastewater stirs up the tank

- use of garbage grinders may add fine debris that also speeds filter clogging.

If you know the brand and model of your particular septic effluent filter we could (you or I) check with the manufacturer about their expectations for and instructions for their product.

On 2016-04-24 by Stephanie

Thank you for your objective and wise advice. The sweet gum trees, tulip tree and maples along with huge pines were here when we bought the place in 2006. We have had three maples and a pin oak tree taken out already back in 2010 since they were inside of the drainfield or very close to the laterals and were causing issues.

The one lateral is directly underneath the huge tulip tree (which is problematic to take out because of the height and size of the tree and its location directly over a lateral and it is within the drainfield) and the remaining sweet gums (which we were originally told were not going to cause a problem) are outside of the drainfield, but tree root invasion I'm sure can still take place.

Both my husband and I were new to the area and did not know a thing about LPP systems or how invasive tree roots could be causing problems, or I would have said "no thanks" on the house. But we are kind of stuck at this point and have to make due as best we can. All we can do is start saving for a drainfield replacement as it will be inevitable.

On 2016-04-23 by (mod) - how long the bump and brush procedure effects will last,

I agree that " ... no guarantee that the drain field would not fail in the near future" in fact it's generally likely.

The range of promises is opinon rather than having basis in objective data. In advertising law, "up to" claims such as "your drainfield will last up to 5 years longer" need to be correct only a small percent of the time to be legally defensible.

Removing tree roots from pipes is of very brief benefit as the roots outside the pipes but nearby will quickly find their way back to that nutrient-rich area. Only by removing trees near the drainfield can that problem be stopped. Search InspectApedia for PLANTING OVER SEPTICS to read detaos.

I understand the wish to defer the major expense of a new drainfield, but it would be smart to plan on the need.

On 2016-04-23 by Stephanie

In answer to how long the bump and brush procedure effects will last, I was told by both the septic company foreman and the County health inspector anywhere from 5 months, to 5 years, or longer. It really depends upon how many people are in the house, the water usage, and if the system is maintained properly.

I checked with a different septic company in the area who is highly recommended as was the one we decided upon and was told that the success rate for the B & B is 80-90%.

There was no guarantee that the drain field would not fail in the near future, since it is really difficult to know exactly what each lateral trench looks like (how invasive the roots are, how thick the bacteria/slime layer is). My husband and I can only hope this will buy us some much needed time to get the money together for a new drain field.

On 2016-04-23 by Stephanie

The cost in our area (Durham, NC) for the bump and brush procedure is $125 per lateral and we have 10 laterals. The cost of the B & B procedure was far less than a new drain field which we cannot afford at this time. I don't know if another B & B procedure would be allowed by the County, but I got the feeling from the septic company foreman who initially told me about the procedure that this is a "one chance to dance" procedure.

We are hoping that this procedure will buy us some time to save the money for a new drain field since we have been told by the County that hooking to a public sewer is not an option at this time and probably won't be for the foreseeable future.

Removing all the trees on the lot will not really help either since there are SO many of them. The root infiltration is part of our problem, but I do agree that the bacteria/organic slime is the ultimate culprit in the death of any drain field.

I can only hope that we can "limp along" as the health department official said until we have the money for a new drain field. I did not mean to offer false hope to someone in a similar predicament, only that there was a more affordable, albeit temporary, solution to the problem.

LPP systems are not allowed in our County anymore because of their premature failure and short lifespan. I understand that a pressure manifold is its successor, and the trenches are deeper and about 3 feet wide rather than the LPP trenches which are on 10-18" deep and about 12" inches wide.

On 2016-04-22 by (mod) - bump and brush septic maintenance utility questioned

Thank you Stephanie, for the informative comment.

My opinion is that bump and brush is a tempting "magic bullet" that will tempt homeowners who face what's really needed: a septic field replacement. I agree that there is no predictable forward life of the system after that procedure.

Consider that what clogs, when a drainfield has "failed" - that is when the field no longer accepts effluent at a functional rate - is not the pipe but the trenches that have become clogged first at the trench bottom then up the trench sides.

The clogging is a bacteria/organic slime that becomes water resistant.

Disturbing the pipes and trenches may buy some time. But you don't state the cost of this procedure.

What % of the cost of a new field is being paid for each bump and brush treatment? How long does that treatment last on average?

On 2016-04-22 by Stephanie

I had posted a question about the "bump and brush" maintenance on 3/20/16 since I had not heretofore heard of this method.

This is a follow-up post. I confirmed that this is a real procedure for our area in North Carolina with our county health department. It is considered the last resort to temporarily restore a drainfield, to help it along for a while longer before a new drainfield is needed. Eventually the drainfield will fail as LPP systems are supposed to have a usable lifespan of 25 years or so.

LPP systems (septic tank/holding tank contents which are pumped into a drainfield at specific dosing intervals) are notorious for having problems because the trenches for the laterals are only 10-18" deep (ours are 10") which makes them prone to tree root infiltration, which was our problem (we have a lot of trees in the yard). The septic company came out and did the bump and brush.

This consisted of digging up the distal ends of all 10 laterals and disconnecting (sawing) the pipe to lift out the elbow turn up, digging up where the laterals joined the manifold and sawing the lateral pipe away from it, and with a 4 x 4 and a sledge hammer literally bumping each lateral in the dug out distal end trenches, moving the laterals 10-12" toward the manifold, afterwards a huge brush was pushed through each lateral to clear out whatever roots were in the pipes,

then reconnecting everything, flushing the laterals and resetting the gpm pump rate by adjusting the gate valve in the pump tank and the gate valve between laterals 3 and 4. This was done on 3/28/16 and we have not had any surfacing effluent since.

The health department verified the usage of copper sulfate to deter any root growth into the newly moved laterals. This is a stop-gap measure to buy the homeowner time before having to have a new drainfield installed.

The health department said the temporary fix could last 5 months, or 5 years or longer. It depended upon the number of people in the household, how much water usage in the home, and how careful the people were to take care of the system by putting copper sulfate into the pump tank every 6 months and then having the laterals flushed a month afterwards to keep new root growth at bay.

Only time will tell in our case, but so far, it seems to be working. Hope this information might help someone else in a similar situation.

On 2016-03-31 by (mod) -

Connie: as you are asking this toilet question on a septic system page I suspect you'r building drains to a private septic tank and absorption system; if the absorption system has failed and is backing up into the septic tank that can slow toilet flushes and ultimately cause a nasty sewage backup in the building. BUt I'm just guessing as all I have is 5 words to go on.

Search InspectApedia.com for SLOW TOILET FLUSH to see how to diagnose and fix the trouble.

On 2016-03-31 by Connie

Why doesn't my toliet flush right

On 2016-03-25 by Joe P

Thanks I'll let you know what I find out

...

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