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Marvin Integrity Window offgassing odor question (C) InspectApedia.com DM Window Odors & Offgassing
Fiberglass, plastic or vinyl window / window component smells

Diagnose & cure odors offgassing from fiberglass, plastic, or vinyl window parts:

Field reports discussing odor complaints reported from fiberglass, vinyl and plastic windows & window parts including Marvin Integrity window sash frames.

This article series discusses common odor sources, including indoor plastic odors or chemical smells observed at some installations of vinyl exterior building siding or in other plastic or vinyl building products such as windows and trim.

We describe common sources of plastic or vinyl type indoor odors and we provide a checklist that can help pinpoint the source of such odors by noting information about the building construction, building materials, HVAC systems, weather, sunlight, temperature, time of day, wind direction, and other clues. We provide links to articles detailing possible health effects of exposure to indoor VOCs and plastic odors and smells.

InspectAPedia tolerates no conflicts of interest. We have no relationship with advertisers, products, or services discussed at this website.

- Daniel Friedman, Publisher/Editor/Author - See WHO ARE WE?

Chemical or Plastic Odors Attributed to Fiberglass or Vinyl Windows & Window Parts

Marvin Integrity Window offgassing odor question (C) InspectApedia.com DMHere we describe reader's experience with smells and "off-gassing" from plastic, vinyl, and fiberglass windows made by Anderson and by Marvin.

Reader Question: Odor complaint and offgassing at Marvin Integrity Windows

Here are some photos of the area mentioned [in prior web page comments or email - Editor.]. The smell from inside the carved out area gets stronger when the sun comes out.

Room stinks up when windows closed. I was thinking of painting that area with the drill holes.

Reply:

[Click to enlarge any image]

Windows combine fiberglass with an additional top coating described by the manufacturer, Marvin Windows. But perhaps the surrounding window frame is of different composition, even entirely vinyl. That's a question to ask Marvin Windows.

Your observations suggest an odor coming from the window frame, whose constituents we don't know. Also, suggested by your observation that the offgassing odor from these Marvin Integrity windows is strongest at drilled screw openings, I speculate that offgassing from exposed plastic, PVC, fiberglass or any material that is on the interior of a closed frame is likely to be extremely slow.

Other window odor complaints are sometimes traced to the sealants used to install the windows. If you can find out what sealants were used on your windows and can obtain some of that product and give it a cautious sniff that might also be diagnostic.

Marvin's Ultrex™ is thermoset, vinyl (thermoplastic) that may off-gas VOC's (see below).

Perhaps the frame construction uses more of this material. A Marvin page http://www.marvin.com/integrity?brandsetting=integrity [NO LONGER A GOOD LINK - Integrity no longer appears - Ed - April 2021] describing Marvin's Ultrex fiberglass product features.

Also see http://www.marvin.com/integrity/features/ultrex-fiberglass

Marvin Integrity Window offgassing odor question (C) InspectApedia.com DM

Informal (not scholarly) Research on Discussions of Offgassing from Marvin Integrity Windows

Researching Marvin "Fiberglass Window" Odors, using this phrase "odors from marvin integrity windows", finds other odor complaints and references to use of a protective coating referred to as an acrylic capstock that some consumers opine was the source of "acrylic" odor complaints.

The fact that odor complaints appear on several web pages (though of course none may be technically authoritative), is both disappointing and is suggestive that there probably are real complaints about odors and offgassing from these products

Contact Information for Marvin Windows & Marvin Window Warranty Information

Have you contacted Marvin to ask their advice about this odor and to ask for pertinent window component or coating MSDS documents. If not I'd do so.

Reader follow-up:

Marvin Integrity Window offgassing odor question (C) InspectApedia.com DM Thanks for sending those links. I found those too during the frustrating months of trying to learn about the window smell I was experiencing. I wish I had known before before purchasing. I reached out to the "some_guy" reddit post, as you saw he had same concern with the pregnant wife/baby.

He said it took a couple of months for his windows to dissipate. I am hoping that's the case here as well but mine have been going on 2 1/2 months.

I did reach out to the window installer who connected to me to the local Marvin representative. He came out a couple of weeks ago and also noticed the smell. He had never experienced the issue but did not disagree about the smell or where it was coming from.

Following that visit, I got a lame letter from Marvin. It's attached. In response, I wrote a strong letter back to the Marvin reps and the window installer earlier this week. No response yet.

I did not ask for documentation on the window component or coating MSDS. Perhaps I will if don't hear back from them.

I am thinking these drill holes in the fiberglass in the carved-out latch area are the problem. Was thinking of sealing the holes up with super glue or something, putting some aluminum foil down, and then putting the latch back without the screws (they really are not necessary). ... Anon by private email 2016 08 19

Moderator reply:

OPINION: If closing off those drilled openings seems to stop the odor problem (I gave a theory on this earlier) then your plan sounds reasonable. An alternative that works for some cases is to use a combination of ventilation and heat to try to speed the offgassing. And sealing off-gassing materials will most-likely slow down the off-gassing process and thus extend it over a longer period.

Quotes below are from a letter provided by this reader:

Thank you for your questions on your new Integrity by Marvin product.

Integrity products, like all other new products, do have a "new" smell associated with the product. Windows are not generally considered a threat to indoor air quality. The fiberglass material used to produce Integrity product has no volatile organic compounds (VOC) or vapor/fumes being off-gassed that would be considered dangerous or hazardous.

Everything new has a new smell associated with the product. The size of a home, or room, size or number of windows/doors, home ventilation, and room environment tend to influence the detections of building material odors such as expanding foam insulation, sealants and caulking. Over time, as with all new products associated with inherent smells dissipate. [sic]

Please be assured that your new windows will not harm your family. Please contact me if you have additional questions or concerns.

Sincerely,

[Signature]
Mary E. Lofstedt
Customer Car Agent
[email deleted]
800-491-8691 - Source: Private letter, Marvin Windows & Doors to [Anonymous], August 2016

Steps to Address PVC, Vinyl, Plastic, or Fiberglass Window Off-Gassing Odor Complaints

These steps have been helpful to some of our readers dealing with odors traced to vinyl or plastic or fiberglass windows, window sashes, or frames or screens.

  1. Pinpoint the odor source: is it the window for certain? Could it be a window sealant, flashing tape, surrounding vinyl siding, caulks, paints

    See SMELL PATCH TEST to FIND ODOR SOURCE
  2. Pinpoint the part of the window that is off-gassing or smelling: is it the window frame, sash, or screen? Try removing the window screens.

    Experimental sealing of window components or surfaces using a low odor tape or a temporary low-odor interior window insulating kit such as that made by 3M can confirm a window or window part as an odor source.

    Try removing the window screens.
  3. Note the effects of sunlight and heat: do windows on the sunny side of the building smell more than on shaded sides? If so those may off-gas and calm down sooner.
  4. Ventilate the building interior with fresh air to dissipate indoor odors.

    Some readers report washing windows with vinegar or other cleaners, running indoor "air purifiers", or placing odor absorbers such as bags of charcoal nearby. In my experience none of those steps is likely to be helpful.

    Watch out: don't treat, coat, or paint a new window with anything that may damage the window or void its warranty; discuss such coatings with the manufacturer first.
  5. Heat: sometimes running the building heat up to 75 or higher for several days, followed by fresh air ventilation, can speed an off-gassing process. Some readers have reported some success using this approach to reduce the off-gassing of new vinyl flooring or carpets.
  6. Sunlight: we have had some success with speeding off-gassing of new materials by exposure to sunlight - such as before installing new plastic or vinyl window frames and sashes.

    Watch out: exposure to excessive sunlight and heat can warp and damage some window products and other building products too.
  7. Wait: discuss and come to agreement with your building and the window manufacturer how long you can reasonably be expected to wait for the window to finish off-gassing enough that the odor is no longer a concern for building occupants. (Recognize that individual's sense of smell and health susceptibility to various VOCs varies widely.)

    In our OPINION if there is no significant reduction in a window off-gassing odor after several months, the problem may be innate in the composition of the window sash or frames or other components.
  8. Seal: some readers report mixed success with efforts to install a seal or seal coat on the interior surfaces of window.

    Watch out: most coatings do not adhere well to vinyl or plastic building components. As we warned above, do not treat, coat, or paint a new window with anything that may damage the window or void its warranty; discuss such coatings with the manufacturer first.

    An interior storm such as 3M's shrink-wrap clear plastic can act as a temporary odor barrier as can wrapping trim and sashes with a low odor masking tape, but these are not reasonable long-term solutions.

    3M™ Scotchshield™ Safety & Security Window Films, Ultra Prestige Series for Residential, sold at building supply stores and hardware stores, is sold as a glass fragment retention film that reflects infrared light, blocks UBV, for sun control. The product is NOT marketed as an odor control material.

    AFM Safecoat safeseal is a low VOC coating that can seal offgassing from wood products such as plywood, particleboard, MDF, pressed wood. Such coatings are probably not suitable for use on vinyl, plastic, fiberglass. Eco-Building Products, Inc. P.O. Box 152 Elberta, MI 49628 USA Tel: (231) 399-0700 Email: sales@eco-buildingproducts.com Website: https://eco-buildingproducts.com
  9. Replace: as a very last resort, and ONLY when you are convinced by the passage of sufficient time (probably several months) and discussions with the manufacturer that your windows have a long-term off-gassing problem, then you might consider an alternative window product.

    Take care that the replacement window product is one whose odor you've already confirmed is not an off-gassing issue.

...


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Reader Comments, Questions & Answers About The Article Above

Below you will find questions and answers previously posted on this page at its page bottom reader comment box.

Reader Q&A - also see RECOMMENDED ARTICLES & FAQs

On 2023-07-17 by InspectApedia Publisher

@Andrew,

Usually the other source has to do with temperature or use of paints or sealants. Use the on page search box to search this website for

Vinyl window off gassing

And read the article above that discusses this problem and its solution.

On 2023-07-17 by Andrew

After house remodel including walls, windows, etc, there is 1 window, SW facing, that gives off a strong chemical smell but only when the weather changes. We live on Lake Michigan.

Could the change in air pressure cause this temporary, but recurring issue? If yes, what might the source be? And the fix? Thank you !

This reader's Q&A were originally posted at HOW TO CONTACT InspectApedia.com 

On 2021-06-30 by Anna - Response from SCS on vinyl window offgassing VOC Standards

@inspectapedia.com.moderator, Thank you for laying all of this out! I just got off a call with SCS where I deduced about the same.

Definitely not great that the "standards" are set by, as they said to me on the phone, "the architectural community." In other words, the very industry itself.

I guess this is why the EU still beats us. In this same vein, me going for a VOC test also feels like a fool's errand--everything is subjective! I think your point about sticking to tried and true classic building material, i.e. wood, is the operative one here.

I've just been told that wood is going to warp in the heat out here, and Andersen's wooden windows are just clearly only meant for upper class people who can afford them.

But, even if I had unlimited resources, I'm not sure I'd go with them after all this--too many secrets. Thank you again!

On 2021-06-30 by inspectapedia.com.moderator (mod) - Contact information for SCS Global Services

@Anna,

SCS is a "third party" certifying agency,
SCS Global Services
Headquarters
2000 Powell Street, Suite 600
Emeryville, CA 94608
+1.510.452.8000 main
+1.510.452.8001 fax
info@scsglobalservices.com

Third party certifying agencies, of which there are now IMO too many, are an independent company who reviews a product, its properties, and its manufacturing process and who certifies that the product meets certain standards that apply to that product itself.

That's a useful service, though in my OPINION some third party certifiers are more-widely known and therefore possibly trusted by consumers than others.

It's worth noting, from a consumer's view that it is the manufacturer who pays for the third party's review and certification. While the certification is a useful service, that arrangement creates an innate conflict of interest: you're being paid by the people whose product you are going to say complies with standards.

How did we get here? Ask your senator or congresswoman if they believe that it's better to let private industry regulate itself than to have a central regulation by a completely-independent government body?

Note that none of these remarks are unique to nor specific to SCS themselves. That company's website offers a list of the standards to which they provide certification, and include in the review process this statement:

---

Standards Development

Stakeholder feedback is an important step in developing standards. SCS is committed to providing a transparent forum for receiving and addressing comments in a way that improves the standards we develop. Each standard that is under development by SCS will be posted to this website for review and comments for a minimum of 60 days. Under exceptional circumstances, the review period may be reduced to 30 days.

In addition, SCS will seek out experts, clients and other key stakeholders for comment to assure a balance of perspectives. After incorporating feedback and completing an internal review, SCS will make available, upon request, versions of the standard with a summary of our response(s) to stakeholder comments.

---

OPINION: Product standards are important and useful, and are relied on by manufacturers, regulators, and consumers. Yet the process of development of specific standards themselves is often one not familiar to consumers. Where does a standards-writing agency get the experts to write the standard?

Where do you think? Usually and quite naturally the experts are likely to come from the very industry to which the standards apply. The danger in this unavoidable approach is that standards may be written to make the manufacturers happy rather than to best-protect consumers.

Hot Connectinos, The Beverly Hills Supper Club Fire, Aluminum Wiring, and the Myth of the Self-Regulating Industry by Jess Aronstein, Ph.D., P.E. - for sale at Amazon and at other book sellers - cited at InspectApedia.comThis Book: HOT CONNECTIONS, The Beverly Hills Supper Club Fire, Aluminum Wiring and the Myth of the Self-Regulating Industry, by Jesse Aronstein, Ph.D., P.E., available at Amazon or by a web-search for book"hot connections aluminum wire"

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=9780578898353&i=stripbooks&linkCode=qs

is the most-clear and most-recent explanation of the pitfalls of an economic and government system that relies on industries to regulate themselves.

The author, Dr. Jess Aronstein, is a frequent contributor of technical information to InspectApedia.com in the field of electrical hazards. More about him is at our ABOUT page.

InspectAPedia is an independent publisher of building, environmental, and forensic inspection, diagnosis, and repair information for the public - we have no business nor financial connection with any manufacturer or service provider discussed at our website. We very much welcome critique, questions, or content suggestions for our web articles. Website content contributors, even if it's just a small correction, are cited, quoted, and linked-to from the appropriate additional web pages and articles - which benefits us both. Working together and exchanging information makes us better informed than any individual can be working alone.

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---

Why don't you ask the company for the standard to which your windows were certified and ask for the company's response to stakeholder comments (and the stakeholder comments themselves if those are available as well)

On 2021-06-30 by Anna

@inspectapedia.com.moderator, Thanks for your input! I agree with you on both of your opinions, even the ones I have had to learn the truth of the hard way through this experience. I should re-mention that SCS Global Services has technically already given them a Gold seal for indoor air quality, which means VOC's are below the minimum (according to them). Do you know anything about SCS?

On 2021-06-29 by inspectapedia.com.moderator (mod)

@Anna,

OPINION: No surprise on any of those accounts. I still like Anderson window products but I would not buy models like the one you describe; (I've used wood windows with vinyl exterior cladding with no problems for several decades now. )

OPINION: We will have trouble understanding the stonewalling from a big company because we're not listening to their lawyers advising them on minimizing what they see as an economic risk of a class action lawsuit. A corporation might stall until the complainant gives up or dies.

Sure it'd be useful to have independently-collected VOC samples of offgassing from the windows, and more-so if the VOCs are actually identified, at least to the class and if possible to the level of hazard.

Keep in mind that an "identification" sample doesn't give conclusive data about the level of exposure of building occupants to the off-gassed substance: to do that would require more complex and probably longer-term measurements, as the building's air movement, fresh air intake and exhaust and a myriad of other factors vary quite a bit by season, occupancy, use of A/C or heat, temperature, moisture, outdoor wind, wind direction, etc.

But before you go too far on the "measure my VOCs" path, have some conversation with your environmental test expert:

- what is the expert's actual familiarity with this issue?

- what is her expertise and length of experience?

- what kind of testing and what specific tests might be performed and how can we show that those are properly-selected to catch what's present and not to miss something important

(There is no single broad-spectrum "everything" test that would be diagnostic nor very useful)

- what lab will be used?

- what kind of report will be provided (photos, test conditions, interpretation of lab results) ?

- at what cost? You may find it's too expensive.

On 2021-06-29 by Anna - Negotiations with Anderson over smelly windows

Hi Dan, writing with an update. I didn't have much to report for a while as I just kept pushing and kept getting either ghosted (no replies to calls or emails) or having conversations with Andersen where their stance didn't change.

They did offer to refund the value of the windows, but they'd expect to get the windows back; cost of removal would be on me, the insane markup of my contractor/installer (which doubled the cost of the windows) would be lost on my end, and I'd still have to go through the motions/expense of ordering new windows on my own dime.

Not ideal and not fair to me financially and then some. What did seem to cause a shift was me reminding them of the SDS fact sheets which they had never acknowledged despite my asking for their comment on the various warnings listed there in an e-mail over a month prior.

It was clear my e-mails hadn't even been read properly because they reacted to this as though it was new; the next day I got a call letting me know there was sudden openness to having them look into the cost of removing the windows by way of an insurance adjuster.

I sent them the invoices for the window installations to show them what was spent on having these put in, and the adjuster was just here with an Andersen rep to take measurements. I had the displeasure of overhearing the Andersen rep prepping the adjuster outside my house in a hushed voice, telling him "we just need to get these all out." Mind you, the company has yet to explain the source of the odor in the windows, but claims they've never had such a complaint, and yet promises the odor will eventually dissipate.

Makes no sense, right? But they'd rather go through the hassle of taking the windows back rather than just be transparent, as you've noted.

Anyways, I'm writing today to see what you think about me getting someone in here to test these windows for VOCs? I looked through your page on assessing the need for mold assessment, but I'm curious if it's even realistic for someone to come in and take swabs of the portion of the windows where the smell comes from to identify VOCs? Would that even yield a scientifically sound assessment?

On 2021-05-21 by (mod) - how long should you wait for window off-gassing odor to go away?

@Anna,

You're going to need to set your own timeline of how long you're willing to live with unpleasant odors from those windows and to be sure that if there is warranty coverage that you act correctly and within time to receive that warranty coverage

also you want to look closely at the warranty, it may be like a roofing warranty that covers cost of the product but not the cost of the installation or in this case the removal and reinstallation of a different product.

I think that it's quite Apparent from your description and from similar reports that the company is afraid to be too open and candid. That fear can be based on bad product but it also can be based simply on fear litigation.

On 2021-05-20 by Anna - Anderson Windows reply to odor complaint: ingredients not disclosed

So, my update is that I finally started hearing back from Andersen, but in a limited scope: basically, they don't want to specify the material inside the hollow meeting rail of the sash (this is definitely where the smell lives), let alone the chemical composition of the materials when offgassed, nor to confirm whether my windows were made in their Bayport facility (they confirmed it on the phone but refuse to do it in writing), nor to address my question about setting a deadline for the smell to have dissipated and for them to take further action if it does not.

Their reason? Because it would "contain confidential business information."

They have sent me a number of their indoor air certifications, which are comforting, but not specific enough. I have assured them that they won't stop hearing from me until they do something--perhaps they won't answer most of my questions (though the product data sheets we looked at already reveal a lot and I have a feeling I wasn't supposed to receive those), but they need to take care of their defective, smelly product.

It's like selling me a Mercedes Benz with a Bose sound system and then telling me that nothing can be done about the crackle and pop in the speakers within the first 3 months of owning the car.

They sent me a "limited warranty" document that makes it seem like they can take action as far as refunding the cost of the windows, but I would also be agreeing not to sue them; I have 1 year to opt out of this agreement. Why I didn't see this document before purchasing is beyond me.

Anyway, this is now more about the nefariousness of a corporation and less about the mechanics of the odor. Here's the limited warranty and the indoor air certifications for you to check out--let me know what you think?

Anderson 100 Series Fibrex WINDOW WARRANTY [PDF] (2016) [Note: the word "odor" doesn't appear in this document.

Anderson WINDOW CERTIFICATIONS [PDF] SCS global Services, 2000 Powell St. Ste 600, Emeryville CA 94608, provided by Anderson to Anna

On 2021-05-03 by Anna

Thank you so much for your detailed response! I will follow your suggestions and let you know what happens next.

On 2021-05-02 - by (mod) - Hazards cited in the Anderson Window Material SDS &

Steps to address unpleasant smell from Anderson 100 series windows (Fibrex)

@Anna,

The Anderson Windows Fibrex FB SDS includes, among quite a few others, these warnings:

P314 - Get medical advice/attention if you feel unwell

P261 - Avoid breathing dust, vapors, fume

and includes:

4.2. Most important symptoms and effects, both acute and delayed

Symptoms/injuries Symptoms/injuries after inhalation Symptoms/injuries after skin contact

Symptoms/injuries after eye contact Symptoms/injuries after ingestion Chronic symptoms

: Not expected to present a significant hazard under anticipated conditions of normal use. : May cause respiratory irritation.

: Harmful in contact with skin. Contact with molten material may cause thermal burns.

: Direct contact with the eyes is likely to be irritating.

: May cause gastrointestinal irritation, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea if swallowed.

: Skin sensitization. May cause damage to target organs: Kidney and thymus. May have mutagenic effect. May damage the unborn child.


The Anderson Windows Blend, AW 101 includes these warnings (among others - see the SDS for the whole list)

"H373 - May cause damage to organs through prolonged or repeated exposure"
and
"P261 - Avoid breathing dust, vapors, fume"
and states:

4.2. Most important symptoms and effects, both acute and delayed


Symptoms/injuries Symptoms/injuries after inhalation Symptoms/injuries after skin contact Symptoms/injuries after eye contact Symptoms/injuries after ingestion Chronic symptoms

: Not expected to present a significant hazard under anticipated conditions of normal use. : May cause respiratory irritation.

: Harmful in contact with skin. Contact with molten material may cause thermal burns.

: Direct contact with the eyes is likely to be irritating.

: May cause gastrointestinal irritation.

: Skin sensitization. May cause damage to target organs: Kidney and thymus. May have mutagenic effect. May damage the unborn child.

and both of the SDS sheets contain numerous other warnings.

Watch out: however not to misinterpret the data. OSHA and SDS are aimed at workplace safety.

These SDS or "Safety Data Sheets" may be describing hazards associated with these products used in an industrial or fabricating environment. No information in these SDS documents distinguishes the environment of use or exposure between industrial and occupancy where the finished product is installed. In general SDS, as you'll read in the OSHA guideline below about those documents, are expected to pertain to the work environment.

Guidelines for Interpreting an SDS

OPINION: The actual or potential health or environmental hazards to occupants of your building where you smell odors that the Anderson Rep's describe as (re-stating): the same odor as they smelled in the Anderson factory are unknown, ranging in possibility from none to possibly significant.

In my experience it is very common for many plastic products to off-gas or "smell" when new, and for many of them to diminish in odor production over time.

In this article series we recommend fresh air ventilation as a step to reduce the complaint.

We also warn that *some* plastic or vinyl products seem to off-gas or "smell" almost indefinitely; it appears that there might be variations in plastic or vinyl offgasssing properties not only between products and manufacturers, but even between production runs of the very same product.

As an anecdotal point, we've had reports from some customers when a window or siding product was producing an unacceptable odor months after the installer and manufacturer agreed it ought to have been dissipated, that in those cases - a few of them - the offending installation was removed completely and something else installed.

I cannot assess the actual hazards involved: nobody can from a text or oral report; the dose or exposure level and exposure duration, the individual vulnerability, and other factors simply vary too widely.

You reported first of an Anderson Window odor complaint on April 2, 2021 saying the (two month old) Anderson 100-Series Fibrex windows were making an unpleasant odor.

It's now May 1 - or about 3 months since original installation.

Information to Ask the Manufacturer

At the very least you'd want the manufacturer to tell you

- How long should I expect the unpleasant odor of your windows to continue before it's below the level of our complaint?

- What can or should I do to speed up the "curing" process of these windows to get past the odor problem: heat exposure, sun exposure, cleaning?

- Assuming that I accept that guidance, what are my warranty options or replacement options if your product's off-gassing continues continues past that time

More actions you should consider:

It would be smart to be absolutely sure that the odor is from the windows and not from siding, sealant, or another nearby product.

SMELL PATCH TEST to FIND ODOR SOURCE (live link at the end of the article on this page) can help with that - if needed.

Meanwhile if you're trying to live with the smelly Anderson-100 windows, and considering that the air conditioning season is coming to you, and considering that for health reasons as well as aesthetic reasons you may need to continue to need considerable fresh-air ventilation, you may want to investigate installing a heat-exchanger-based fresh air balanced ventilation system. (Those are described here at InspectApedia.com).

Check with your doctor: discuss your odor concerns, the data in the two SDS sheets, your belief that the odor comes from the product described by those sheets, the particular health vulnerabilities of people living in the building, and ask her advice.

MOLD / ENVIRONMENTAL EXPERT, HIRE ? can help you decide if it is cost-justified and appropriate to hire an environmental or health expert to examine your home and document the off-gassing odor concern from your Anderson-100 windows.

On 2021-05-02 by Anna

Hi Dan, see the documents here and let me know what you think!

On 2021-05-01 - by (mod) - Anderson says "smell will eventually go away"

@Anna, I would certainly like to see a copy of the documents that you mentioned in your note

On 2021-05-01 by Anna

Hi! I just noticed your reply—thank you! Since I first wrote in about this, I’ve spoken to a customer service rep at Andersen who checked in with a product manager about my complaint, who said “the smell will go away eventually” but otherwise did not specify the source or how long the offgassing would occur.

Then I had reps from Andersen come to my house to smell the problem; they immediately recognized the odor as “something they’ve smelled before in the plant.” One of them speculated it was “the smell of the wood chips used in the Fibrex” and the other seemed to agree this was coming from the Fibrex material inside (he also said that the outside of the window is made of regular vinyl—go figure).

I also received 2 fact sheets: 1 for Fibrex and 1 for “Blend AW 101.”

These documents are highly technical and make no sense to me, but they do seem to speak to the chemical makeup of the materials used to make the window. I did not that both sheets indicate a “may cause reproductive harm” warning on them. I am still awaiting a follow-up from Andersen to fess up to what the chemical makeup is of this smell.

I will give the patch test a try in the meantime! And for all who are reading this: AVOID ANDERSEN.

Our windows are riddled with other defects, too, and they will avoid dealing with your complaints as much as they can. Even my installer said “I would’ve gone with a cheaper window like Milgard.”

On 2021-04-02 - by (mod) - Window smell diagnostic steps

@Anna,

Often new windows made of these materials will off-gas more-rapidly with a combination of heat, fresh air ventilation, and sunlight.

I would want to be very sure we've correctly identified the odor source:
- window frame materials
- window screens
- sealants used at windows
- surrounding siding

You can do this using the SMELL PATCH TEST to FIND ODOR SOURCE

and keep me posted

Sorry, I have no basis on which to speculate on what skimping might or might not have been done when your windows were manufactured, but it might be instructive to see if you can pin down exactly where the windows and their raw materials were manufactured, and when.

On 2021-04-02 by Anna - stink from Anderson 100 series windows made of Fibrex

2021--I just had 18 expensive Andersen 100 series windows (made of Fibrex) installed throughout my house.

The opening on either side of the upper part of the sash stinks when you sniff up close--and when the sun hits the windows, the smell worsens and fills the room it is in. I can describe the smell as combination of wet cardboard, a bit of skunk, and old meat--and it can get quite sour-smelling. I initially suspected a dead animal trapped in the walls or mold, but both have been ruled out by multiple specialists.

Only then did I think to get up close to my new windows and sniff them--and there it was. It's been nearly 2 months since the installation and no improvement. Yesterday I removed a sash and sniffed the hollow inside of the top of it--boom, that's the source. What on earth could be in there?

I've reported this to Andersen and am awaiting an update. Is it possible that they skimped out on the Fibrex when building out the inside of the windows and filled it with vinyl, plastic or fiberglass?

Or something worse? What on earth are we breathing in? Trying to keep windows open as much as possible, but hot SoCal summer is around the corner.

---

On 2021-01-19 - by (mod) -

HM

Usually a "musty" odor isn't from a vinyl material but is more-likely from a leak-induced mold problem. I'd investigate further.

On 2021-01-19 by hman - musty sweet smell from vinyl chloride components of 2006 home

I have a home built in 2006 and am experiencing a musty smell.

Vinyl Chloride, from research says the smell is sweet, I am smelling a musty smell and its strongest after getting out of the shower

I am not sure if the steam somehow activates some kind of off gassing. The reason I know its a plastic/pvc/vinyl type smell is I just ordered a product that was shipped in some plastic containers.

The plastic containers literally have the same musty smell I am smelling from the windows. I just don't know if its vinyl chloride how can we test for this. If it is that there is not telling how long I've been breathing this stuff in, I will be finding out who made these windows and will find someone to sue if it is the harmful chemical.

On 2019-08-20 - by (mod) - update on the Marvin Integrity Window off gassing issue

30 July 2019 Anonymous wrote by private email:

Hello - We wanted to see if by chance if we could get an update or reach out directly to the person who posted the Marvin Integrity Window off gassing issue below (see link - I believe he went by the name "Ed").

We are experiencing the exact same issue and wanted to see what he did to correct and / or if the smell from his Marvin Integrity windows eventually went away,

We would appreciate any help at this point as we are desperate :( We just had 25 of these windows installed in our home and are experiencing the exact same fiberglass smell issues

Moderator reply:

I understand how troubling this issue is. I did not hear again from the reader whose discussion you read in the article cited. That "Ed - referred to "Editor " - ie me.

Some plastic and vinyl offgassing dissipates over several months, sometimes sped up by a combination of sunlight, warmth (no excessive heat that could damage window parts), indoor fresh air ventilation.

Unfortunately in my OPINION and experience, there is can be some variation in the actual chemistry and mix of vinyl products from one manufacturing run to another. THat means that a product that has no complaints in one manufacturing run may have complaints from another.

Unfortunately as well, in my OPINION, the chemical composition of some products that are made offshore, such as in China, can be unpredictable, vary significantly, and in some cases may produce more harmful offgassing.

Some diagnostic questions may permit me to comment further:

What are the country and city where your windows are installed?

When were the windows installed? that is how old are they now and how long has this offgassing odor been a problem? It sounds as if your windows are new.

What diagnosis have you tried so far and what steps to speed offgassing?

Are we confident the odor is from the window frames and not from something else such as

- window screens
- caulks or sealants
- paints
- something else (have you tried our SMELL PATCH TEST to FIND ODOR SOURCE procedure?

What response have you had from Marvin directly?

I posted your comment ANONYMOUSLY at the article link you cited - perhaps another reader will have something useful to add. You can if you wish put some contact information in a posting there


Reader follow-up:

thank you so much for getting back to me, it means a lot and I appreciate your questions. My answers below:

Some diagnostic questions may permit me to comment further:

What are the country and city where your windows are installed? US, Nashville TN We had Marvin Integrity windows installed (fiberglass outside and around window, wood inside). the windows were actually made in the USA (I believe it is minnesota but can get clarity)

When were the windows installed? that is how old are they now and how long has this offgassing odor been a problem? It sounds as if your windows are new.
Installation started on June 12, 2019 and ended on June 17, 2019. The smell was there upon the first day of install (23 windows installed)

What diagnosis have you tried so far and what steps to speed offgassing?

Diagnosis:

We initially thought it was the paint they used on the wood. As we started smelling different sections of the window (we have all double hung), we noticed the smell coming from areas of the sashes and along the tracks. we did not get the smell in the middle of the window where the latch is. Upon further investigation, one of the guys who was working on our house happened to also work on boats in his spare time. I brought him in and asked him what he thought the smell was, he immediately said fiberglass (no hesitation) - he recommended I go to home depot and find some fiberglass resin to smell, so that is what we did and sure enough the smell matched.

In addition, they smelled while in the package as they arrived new at our house. They also smelled in our shed (where we stored them as they were waiting to be installed). Finally, we went back to the warehouse of the company we bought them from and asked to smell windows like ours that were being stored before installation. we smelled the same smell along the fiberglass outside frame.

Steps to speed offgassing:

- opened windows daily, inserted fans

- 2 Austin Air purifiers running 24 x 7

- charcoal bags

- vinegar

- took some sashes out and put them outside in the heat for ~1-2hours

- left our home for 3 days and "baked" the house at 87 degrees, no improvement

- we have now wrapped them on the inside around the trim to make living in the home more manageable, using like a strong packaging wrap - what is interesting is if you miss a spot, the odor will seep from that opening pretty strong


Are we confident the odor is from the window frames and not from something else such as (I am fairly confident based on the feedback above but I would never say 100% since my expertise in these windows is limited, but growing)

- window screens

- caulks or sealants

- paints

- something else (have you tried our SMELL PATCH TEST procedure? Not heard of this, would like to learn more

What response have you had from Marvin directly?

We initially had contact w/ customer support who repeatedly told us it was a "new window smell" and it was not harmful. The issue is that the smell has created headaches, throat tightening, and stomach aches.

We then got in touch with someone from product liability (attorney) who we have been in contact with. In summary, it has been a mix of denial + asking what we think we need (i.e. another type of window, etc)

Marvin also sent out a field rep who initially denied the smell, then did smell it - we established an action plan for a tech to come out but this has now changed for some reason.

I am in contact with a lawyer and am summarizing what I think we need to make it right. However, we would love to go down the path of no action if we could understand if this smell will go away (Marvin will not provide us with answers even after insisting we are willing to work with them). We are considering moving out at this stage due to health concerns.

I would love your thoughts on this and I would just ask you do not post all these details publicly just yet as we are in discussions with Marvin. Thank you again for reaching out Daniel - good to hear from someone who actually cares.


Moderator reply:

It's common for new plastics, resins, etc. to smell - and common too for the smell to dissipate over a few months. If in the 1 1/2 months since installation you see no odor abatement, it's possible that the composition of this production run of windows is particularly odor-producing and there is some possibility that it won't off-gas enough to fall below your tolerance threshold even after many months.

I would be inclined to try for an agreement with the company and installer that if, after an agreed-upon reasonable time (perhaps 2-3 months) the odor is still untenable for you then the windows will be replaced with something else.

Take care to check replacements before accepting their installation too, as typically the parties involved won't be willing to return for a second replacement.

In my OPINION a manufacturer or installer of a product may know perfectly well that there is a problem with a product or a production run of the product, but in view of the litigiousness of some, particularly in North America, the parties involved may try to "make good" one customer at a time while at the same time, perhaps on advice from their attorneys, they will be very careful to never ever admit anything that could feed a more broad scale consumer complaint or consumer liability.

You have isolated the smell sufficiently that you probably don't need it but the procedure is at SMELL PATCH TEST to FIND ODOR SOURCE

If you agree I'll put our full discussion at https://inspectapedia.com/odor_diagnosis/Marvin_Window_Odors.php

keeping you anonymous (our default unless you want to be identified), and you can also print out that information for the parties involved. Sometimes a candid and polite d


On 2017-10-17 by Bonnie Jacobson - smell from Simonton 7300 windows

I have an upcoming installation date for dual-pane replacement vinyl windows and sliding doors, and they have been ordered, painted and are awaiting installation. I have Multiple Chemical Sensitivity Disorder and it just occurred to me that I might be causing myself a problem with the potential off-gassing from the vinyl.

(Last summer, I tried to use 2 different air mattresses that were made of vinyl and couldn't tolerate them, but of course, I won't be sleeping on the window frames!) I spoke to the company today and he said they will uncover the windows and allow them to air out. He said he's never had a complaint about off-gassing and has been doing this many years.

The windows are Simonton 7300. I am even wondering if I should pay for the windows and not have them installed which would be a waste of thousands, of course, but my health and in-home air quality is so important.

On 2017-10-17 by (mod) - Simonton 7300 Windows offgassing concern?

Bonnie,

I haven't found specific reports of odor complaints traced to Simonton windows, but I also do not know specifics about that product line. As you've posted here and to be clear to other readrers, Simonton is not a Marvin Windows product.

Your comment confirms that window offgassing odor complaints are not unique to any single window manufacturer.

You could try checking using yourself as well as a friend known to have a sensitive sense of smell to observe the new window fresh in the box as delivered from the factory, and you could try installing the windows first on a sun-exposed wall of your home to see if sun-heating causes any odor complaint.

I know the contractor won't be happy installing a job in stages but that might be a way to avoid a more-serious issue with satisfaction with the product.

Keep me posted.

Reader Question: vinyl replacement windows smell musty at their seams, especially in sunlight

Last October (2010) we had replacement windows put in. They are stained inside and vinyl outside. If you put your nose to the the seam of the molding on the sides of the windows you can smell a musty/moldy(?) smell. We had no problem prior to this.

The odd thing is that when the sun is hitting the two affected windows (South side of the house) you can sometimes smell it as soon as you walk into the room.

When the sun is not as strong (winter/cloudy, etc.) you have to put your nose to the seam to smell it. I have taken off the outlet covers and smelled there figuring if there were mold in the wall I would smell it - just dusty smell like all other house outlets (house built in 62). There are no other signs of mold.

Since the smell strengthens and alleviates (I don't think mold would do that?), It is the south side of the house, and that it started right after the new windows were put in I thought it was associated with that. Have you heard of this with windows. I also suspected the caulk?

We removed the molding on one window, caulked, and replaced it and that did cut down on some of the smell.

The other weird thing is that in the summer our room smells worse than my child's and in the winter his smell worse than ours (different ways the sun is shining?). I appreciate any help you can give me. I am wondering if my scenario seems correct and how long until you think the smell will go away. I don't like my son breathing this. - Mel 12/30/12

Reply:

Mel,

Indeed there is ample empirical evidence (field reports) that some formulations of vinyl building products emit a plastic odor (possibly vinyl chloride) especially when heated, for example by sunlight.

In our experience the odors usually diminish over time but to those who are sensitive to plastic smells, the odors may not completely disappear.

Watch out:  We don't know the chemical composition of the odors you describe, but to be on the safe side, I would NOT have a child sleeping in a room with noticeable plastic odors - wait for them to dissipate. Take a look at the health and exposure information described in the articles beginning

at VINYL CHLORIDE HEALTH INFO - live link given at Recomended Articles below.

(article links listed at the ARTICLE INDEX the bottom of this article )

.For details see PLASTIC or VINYL ODOR EXPOSURE - we have moved the plastic odor or burned plastic exposure discussion there. - live link given at the Recomended Articles list below.

That article discusses PVC exposure and also more general

PLASTIC, BURNED ODOR EXPOSURE HAZARDS

Watch out: Vinyl chloride might be present in gas form as a colorless, flammable gas with a faintly sweet odor at levels of about 3000 ppm (the odor detection threshold). We provide the US EPA health report on vinyl chloride

at VINYL CHLORIDE HEALTH INFOrmation from the US EPA - live link given at the Recomended Articles list below.


...

Continue reading at VINYL SIDING or WINDOW PLASTIC ODORS or select a topic from the closely-related articles below, or see the complete ARTICLE INDEX.

Or see these

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WINDOW OFFGASSING ODOR COMPLAINTS, FIBERGLASS & VINYL at InspectApedia.com - online encyclopedia of building & environmental inspection, testing, diagnosis, repair, & problem prevention advice.


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INDEX to RELATED ARTICLES: ARTICLE INDEX to BUILDING ODOR DIAGNOSIS & CURE

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