---

InspectAPedia ^® Home

WATER PUMPS, TANKS, TESTS, WELLS, REPAIRS

FILTERS, WATER
GREYWATER SYSTEMS

WATER CONTAMINANT LEVELS
WATER FILTERS
WATER HAMMER NOISE DIAGNOSE & CURE
WATER HEATERS
WATER ODORS, CAUSE CURE
WATER PUMP REPAIR GUIDE
WATER PRESSURE LOSS DIAGNOSIS & REPAIR
WATER PUMP SHORT CYCLING
WATER PURIFIERS
WATER SOFTENERS & CONDITIONERS
WATER TANK REPAIR PROCEDURES
WATER TANK: USES, TROUBLESHOOTING
WATER TESTS, CONTAMINANTS, TREATMENT
WATER TREATMENT EQUIPMENT CHOICES
WELLS CISTERNS & SPRINGS
WELL FLOW RATE
WELL WATER PRESSURE DIAGNOSIS
WELL YIELD IMPROVEMENT
WINTERIZE A BUILDING

More Information

Bladder Type Water Storage & Pressure Tanks - Diagnosis & Repair       WATER TANK BLADDERS & CAPTIVE AIR - How to diagnose and repair water system problems when an internal bladder water tank is installed What is the difference between a bladder type water tank and a glass lined no-bladder water tank? Broken, burst, busted or leaky water tank bladder WATER TANK BLADDER PRESSURE ADJUSTMENT - separate article WATER TANK BLADDER REPLACEMENT - separate article Questions & Answers about diagnosing and repairing problems with water tanks that use an internal bladder References

Click to Show or Hide Related Topics

InspectAPedia tolerates no conflicts of interest. We have no relationship with advertisers, products, or services discussed at this website.

Internal bladder water tank troubleshooting: this article describes the diagnosis and repair of internal bladder type water pressure tanks: how they work, what goes wrong, how to fix it. We explain how internal bladder type water pressure tanks work, what goes wrong, how to diagnose the trouble, and how to repair it.

© Copyright 2012 InspectAPedia.com, All Rights Reserved. Use page top links to major topics or use links at the left of each page to navigate within topics and documents at this website. Green links show where you are in a document series or at this website.

How Bladder-type Water Pressure Tanks Work - Pressure Tank Diagnosis

Our complete list of internal-bladder type water tank diagnosis & repair articles is at the end of this page.

Private well and pump systems include a well (the water source), piping from the well to the building, a water pump, and a water tank to which building water supply plumbing is connected. Building plumbing fixtures (sinks, toilets, showers, tubs) are supplied with water from the building water supply piping, and drain into the building drain-waste-vent (DWV) system. How water pressure tanks work When water is turned on at a fixture in the building, compressed air in the water tank acts like a spring: it pushes water out of the water tank and into the building water supply piping and thus water is sent on to the building plumbing fixtures. If many fixtures are being run at once in the building, or if the water flow rate produced by the pump and piping and controls is a modest one, the pump may run continuously all while the fixture is being operated. More typically, if only one fixture is running and if the pump and well can deliver a high water flow rate, the pump may come on and off several times while the fixture is being run.

As water leaves the water tank, water pressure in the water tank drops. Since the water tank also contains air, the air pressure drops too. In the tank water pressure and air pressure will be at the same psi. Sketch courtesy of Carson Dunlop Associates. A pressure control switch, usually mounted on or near the water tank, senses the pressure drop, and at a pre-set "pump cut-in pressure" (typically 20 or 30 psi) the pressure switch turns on the water pump. See WATER PUMP PRESSURE CONTROL ADJUSTMENT for details of this control. The water pump, located at the tank or perhaps in the well, pumps water to the building from the well, simultaneously re-pressurizing the water tank and providing water to the building. See WATER PUMP TYPES & LIFE EXPECTANCY for types of water well pumps, how they work, how they are diagnosed and repaired. Because the water pressure tank is connected to the water pump (water in from the well) and also to the building water supply piping (water out to the building) the water tank is said to be "floated on the water line" and when the water pump is running water is pushed simultaneously into the water pressure tank and into the building supply piping. The pressure control switch turns off the water pump when water pressure in the pressure tank reaches the "pump cut-out pressure" (typically 40 or 50 psi) - pressure switch turns off the well pump.

Readers of this document should also see WATER TANK BLADDER PRESSURE ADJUSTMENT where we describe adjusting air pressure in a bladder type water tank to factory specs, and also see Water pump and pressure tank repair diagnosis & cost an specific case which offers an example of diagnosis of loss of water pressure, loss of water, and analyzes the actual repair cost. The illustration at page top is courtesy of Carson Dunlop Associates.

What's the Difference Between a Bladder Type Captive Air Water Tank and a Conventional Steel Bladderless Water Tank

Bladder Type Captive Air Water Tanks

Bladder type or "captive air" water tanks (shown in our photo at left and in the sketch above) store the water tank's air charge in the upper portion of the steel water tank. Water in the tank moves in and out of a rubber bladder in the tank bottom. Because the air charge is kept separate from the water in the tank, air is not absorbed into the water and bladder type water tanks do not normally need to have makeup air added. On some captive air water tanks this design is reversed. For example on the WellMate™ water tank the water is in the tank and air is in the tank bladder. This difference can confuse the burst water tank bladder diagnosis procedure which we describe below. At WATER TANK CAPTIVE AIR vs TRADITIONAL WellMate we provide separate water tank diagnosis and repair advice. Water pressure or water pump short cycling problems with bladder-type water tanks are usually traced to a problem with the pump controls, with well and water piping leaks, or less often, to a failure of the internal tank bladder itself - a component that may be replaceable. If the water-containing rubber bladder in a "captive air" water tank is defective (it can become stuck to itself and remain collapsed), the result can be a rapid on-off short cycling of the water pump. We test water pressure tanks to see if they're empty or nearly empty of water by seeing if we can gently rock or move the tank. If the water tank is heavy with water it does not move easily. Be careful not to jiggle and break a pipe! Water pressure tanks, their different types, how to identify them, and their repairs are described just above and in more detail at WATER TANK TYPES. At What Goes Wrong with an Internal-Bladder type Water Tank? we discuss the combination of well pump short cycling and a burst water tank bladder.

Traditional no-bladder Steel or Fiberglass Water Tanks

Bladderless Steel Water Pressure Tanks (photo at left and sketch just below) use a single steel tank interior to hold both the air charge and the water supply. Modern steel bladderless type water tanks may be coated internally to increase the water tank life by resisting corrosion. That's what "glass lined" refers to on some water tanks. (A "glass lined" or "epoxy coated" water tank will not be a bladder type water tank which we discussed above.) Bladderless water pressure tanks, because the air charge and water are in the same container, can lose their air charge over time (air is absorbed into the water) and may need air added. See WATER TANK AIR, HOW TO ADD for details. Bladderless Fiberglass Water Pressure Tanks, such as the WellMate traditional hydro-pneumatic water tank operate similar to the steel water pressure tank, but incorporate a tank-top mounted air volume control and offer the advantage (over steel water tanks) of no risk of rust perforation and leak at the water tank. At WATER TANK CAPTIVE AIR vs TRADITIONAL WellMate we provide separate water tank diagnosis and repair advice for this water tank type. Bladderless Fiberglass Water Pressure Tanks, such as the WellMate traditional hydro-pneumatic water tank operate similar to the steel water pressure tank, that is, no internal bladder is used to maintain and separate the tank's air charge and water charge pressure. These tanks incorporate a tank-top mounted air volume control and offer the advantage (over steel water tanks) of no risk of rust perforation and leak at the water tank. At WellMate Diagnosis we provide separate water tank diagnosis and repair advice for this water tank type. At OLDER STEEL TANKS - Bladder-less Traditional Steel Water Pressure & Water Storage Tanks we discuss this water tank type in detail.

What Goes Wrong with an Internal-Bladder type Water Tank?

Water pressure or water pump short cycling problems with bladder-type water tanks are usually traced to a problem with the pump controls, with well and water piping leaks, or less often, to a failure of the internal tank bladder itself - a component that may be replaceable. Water tank bladder rupture: if the water containing bladder in a captive air water tank becomes ruptured, torn, or leaky, the result can be a very short water draw-down cycle before the water pump runs,or rapid on-off short cycling of the water pump. Water from the tank bladder leaks out of the bladder and into the steel tank itself where it replaces more and more of the air charge until finally the behavior of the water system is much as in the water tank bladder collapse discussed just below. A water tank bladder might rupture from age, an internal defect, or if the pump pressure control switch is defective or is set so high that the water pressure breaks the bladder but this last cause is a bit unusual since the air pressure and water pressure on the two sides of the tank bladder's are normally the same. Water tank bladder collapse: if the water-containing rubber bladder in a "captive air" water tank is defective (it can become stuck to itself and remain collapsed), the result can be a rapid on-off short cycling of the water pump. We check water pressure tanks to see if they're empty or nearly empty of water by seeing if we can gently rock or move the tank. If the tank is heavy with water it does not move easily. If the water pressure tank is empty or nearly so, it will be very light and easy to move. Be careful not to jiggle and break a pipe! Why don't we just look at the water tank pressure gauge to see if there is water in the tank? Well we do. But because debris or other failures can cause a water tank pressure gauge to read pressure even when there is none in the tank (the gauge can get "stuck"), we don't rely on just tank gauge readings. For more about water tank pressure gauges, see  WATER PRESSURE GAUGE ACCURACY and see WATER TANK BLADDER PRESSURE ADJUSTMENT. If the water tank is empty or nearly so, then water is not entering the tank. If the water pump runs but no water is entering the tank, the problem could be a collapsed bladder that is stuck onto itself, not admitting water. There could also be another problem such as a defective water pump, a well line leak, or other cause for water not entering the tank - so you may need to also see WATER PRESSURE LOSS DIAGNOSIS & REPAIR. If the water tank is "full" or nearly so, then if there is still no water pressure, the tank bladder could be also burst but the tank may have lost its air charge (over time air is absorbed into the water - the burst-bladder water tank is acting like a bladderless water tank discussed just above). In this case you might observe that the well pump (or pump control) is switching rapidly on and off when water is run in the building - see WATER PUMP SHORT CYCLING. Bladder type or captive-air water pressure tanks and their repairs are described just above and in more detail at WATER TANK TYPES.

Diagnosis of a burst water tank bladder: if you remove the cap from the air valve on the top of your water tank and momentarily depress the pin in the center of the schrader valve, normally air will hiss out.

Watch out: Don't keep holding this valve pin down or you'll lose the air charge.

But if water comes squirting out of this air valve, the captive-air bladder type water tank has burst or become torn or leaky, and repair is needed.

Thanks to reader Steven Prior for the photo (above left) showing water coming out of the air charge valve on a water tank. Most (not all) water pressure tank models using a bladder isolate water inside the bladder - meaning that water coming out of the air valve shows a burst bladder.

Note: Usually in a bladder-type water pressure tank the water is in the bladder and the air is in the tank outside the bladder. There are a few bladder-type water tank models in which this design is reversed - water is in the tank and air is in the bladder - more likely with fiberglass tanks.

A second symptom of burst water tank bladder: if air is found squirting out of plumbing fixtures it's possible that the cause is a burst bladder in the water tank; the tank's air charge is being forced out into the building plumbing system. This symptom won't normally continue once any excess air in the pressure tank has been lost - but the problem may remain, showing up as pump short cycling.

A third symptom of burst water tank bladder: if the water tank is full or nearly so and you are unable to drain water out of the tank, a burst bladder may be blocking the tank at its bottom. A burst water tank bladder can collapse at the water tank bottom, preventing water from leaving the tank. The result is no water pressure in the building and perhaps an inability to drain water from the water tank itself.

At WellMate Diagnosis we provide separate water tank diagnosis and repair advice for captive-air water tanks in which the air is in the bladder and the water is outside the bladder in the water tank.

Thanks to Jeff Garmel for suggesting text clarification in this discussion of water pressure tank diagnosis.

Water Tank Not Properly Located: if you place the water pressure tank too far from the pump pressure switch, or at a different elevation from the pressure switch, the pressure switch control may not operate properly. Here is what Amtrol™ says about tank location:

The Well-X-Trol should be installed as close as possible to the pressure switch. This will reduce the adverse effects of added friction loss and pressure switch bouncing, and the difference in elevation between WELL-X-TROL and switch.

Really most pressure tanks will work if placed almost anywhere. But if you have a problem such as pressure switch bouncing (the switch turning the pump on and off rapidly at the start or end of a pumping cycle) you can relocate the pressure switch to the new larger tank and run a longer wire to the pump or pump control relay. Other causes of pressure switch bounce and well pump short cycling are explained at SHORT CYCLING CAUSES.

How do We Repair a Water Tank with a Burst Internal Bladder?

Repair of a leaky or burst water tank bladder: some people recommend treating the water tank as if it were an older bladderless type of water pressure tank such as the tanks we discuss at STEEL WATER TANKS.

It is unlikely that this will be a satisfactory repair. Usually when a captive air water tank bladder ruptures and water enters the rest of the steel tank, the bladder collapses; it often becomes impossible for the water pump to push much water into the water tank, and even if it does, the collapsing bladder will stick to and seal itself so that the water draw-down quantity before the pump needs to run again will be very small.

Our sketch at left, courtesy of Well-Rite water pressure tanks [Flexcon Industries] [2] Illustrates how air in the upper portion of the tank compresses water in the flexible tank bladder, acting as a spring to push water into the building water supply piping system during the draw-down cycle. You'll note that at the end of the 40/60 psi draw-down cycle illustrated, the voume of water in the tank is nearly zero.

Fixing or getting rid of a waterlogged collapsed-bladder water tank: as we mentioned above, it's also possible that the torn bladder will stick to the water outlet opening, blocking water from leaving the water tank. The result will be short cycling of the water pump. We discuss water pump short cycling at WATER TANK REPAIRS. In any case the drawdown volume will be reduced and it's likely that this misused water tank will rust through soon.

Reader Bill Kortebein described how he identified and repaired this problem.

My pump was short cycling like crazy. So I drained the tank, measured the air pressure; it was zero, so I pumped it up to a couple PSI below the cut-in point. Short cycling improved a little…

But in a matter of a couple weeks or so, short cycling was just as terrible again. So I drained the tank again (this time the pipes were disconnected at the bottom of the tank – so I ought to be able to get all the water out, right?). I measured the air pressure: it was back to zero again. Pumped the tank back up again (which forced some more water out). Then tried rocking the tank, and the thing was still practically full, it was almost immovable.

No water ever squirted out the air pressure valve, but…

• With the pipes open to the air at the bottom of the tank,
• and the pressure pumped up (38 PSI)
• I was only able to get a small percentage of the water out of the tank.

The only conclusion I could come to was that the bladder was burst, and that it was lying in a bunch at the bottom and somehow plugging the outlet. Does that conclusion make sense to you?

In any case, I replaced the pressure tank (and also installed a cycle-stop valve), and now the pump hardly ever turns on at all, compared to the way it was before.

Since the old tank was practically immovable, someone suggested I drill a hole in the side to let the water out. Pretty good idea, except not with the pressure pumped up to 38 PSI. Once I punctured through, it shot out like to drill a hole in me or anything else in its way, geysered all over the electrical stuff (and tripped the GFCI -- good thing there was one there), and kept me occupied containing this water knife for a good 15 minutes or more).

You need to replace the water tank bladder or as most plumbers recommend, replace the entire water tank assembly. If you are going to drill a hole to drain a blocked water pressure tank, we suggest disconnecting the tank entirely from its fittings and using a hand truck to get the heavy tank outdoors before drilling into it.

Water tank bladder replacement: on some water pressure tanks, the water tank can be disassembled and the bladder replaced. You might want to ask your plumber to try this repair before replacing the entire water tank assembly. Bladder replacement will involve draining water from the system and removing the water tank pretty much as if the whole tank were to be replaced. Suppliers such as Wessels offer replacement bladders for some models of expansion tanks and hydropneumatic tanks. In general, if you're going to hire a plumber to do this job, we recommend replacing the whole tank.

Water tank bladder air pressure adjustment: Be sure to review WATER TANK BLADDER PRESSURE ADJUSTMENT if you are adjusting, tuning, or replacing the air pressure in your bladder-type well tank.

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs about Water Tank Bladder Diagnosis & Repair

Question: Water tank internal bladder is stuck - how do I repair it?

I just replaced a bad water tank with a new pre-pressure tank. The pressure setting is at 29 psi according to the manufacturer. However, after hooking everything back up, it appears no water is going into the tank. I attempted to adjust the pressure switch but nothing appears to work. Could I be dealing with a back pressure switch? - Ron

Thanks for the information on the new pressure tank.

If the internal bladder has failed and collapse onto itself, can I get everything working by removing all the air pressure first and then pumping water into the tank?

There is water coming out of the water valve prior to the tank when the pump is running. However, after closing it, it appears no water is going into the tank. - Ron

Similar question: new bladder tank installed, tank won't fill with water

I just installed anew bladder tank, and it is not filling with water, is this normal? - Wess Wellmaker

Reply: Replace the Bad Air Bladder or try Pumping Up a Stuck Water Tank Internal Bladder

Ron:

I'd check the pressure at your new pressure tank at the pump cut-in and cut-out points. If the pressure never changes then I'd agree that something's wrong with the hookup and no water is being pushed into the tank. If an internal bladder has failed it can collapse onto itself, stick to itself, and can prevent water from getting into the tank. But first make sure there is no closed valve that ought to be open;

A bad pressure switch would prevent water from entering the water tank if the switch is simply not turning on the pump when it should. ;

Next: when an internal bladder has collapsed and stuck to itself I think the "fix" is to replace the bladder or the entire tank and bladder assembly. No water enters the pressure tank when the bladder is stuck like that.

Since your tank is new, replacing the tank or bladder does not sound like the place to start. But even a new water pressure tank that uses an internal bladder could be having a problem filling the bladder the first time.

But according to Jeremy Rasmussen, an experienced well driller and installer, he sometimes can "un-stick" a jammed or stuck water tank internal bladder by temporarily forcing the well pump to pressurize the water tank to a pressure above the usual pump pressure control switch cut-off setting. Jeremy holds the pump relay switch closed to force the pump to keep running to increase the pressure against the stuck bladder.

Watch out: Especially if there is no pressure relief valve on the water tank there is a risk of bursting the water tank. Over pressurizing a water tank can cause it to explode, causing injury or even, as happened in New Paltz, NY, death. Watch the pressure gauge, and keep the tank pressure well below the recommended manufacturer's maximum pressure rating for the tank. If you keep the pressure below 70 psi and the tank is not already weakened by rust or damage, you should be OK.

Watch out: there are potentially fatal electric shock hazards if you touch live electrical wiring, especially in wet areas or where you may also be touching building plumbing.

Finally, check to be sure that any valves between the water pump and the pressure tank are "open" to allow water into the tank.

Wes: indeed water should enter your water tank bladder when the pump cycles on. Look for

- a closed or broken water control valve between pump outlet and water tank inlet

- a stuck water tank bladder (try briefly holding the pressure switch closed to pump up to 1o-15 psi over the usual cutoff pressure to see if you can un-stick the bladder in the tank

Watch out: do not overpressurize a water pressure tank - it can burst and kill someone

Question: bladder tank pump system worked fine until we had a burst water pipe

Hi there, we have a bladder tank pump that was working perfectly ok until Friday night when a pipe in the kitchen burst, and all the water was turned off. Now the pipe is fixed and the water back on, but the pump will only run for a few seconds and then goes off. It also isn't pumping much, if any water into the cold water tank in the loft (just a trickle running into it, mostly after the pump has switched itself off), and the other problem is, there is no water from any of the hot taps in the house.

The hot water tank is full. All valves had been turned back on. Even running the cold taps won't make the pump come on and stay on. It's currently sitting at approx 2bar, and when it runs, it cuts out at 3bar. These figures are usual for our pump. Any clues on why its cutting out too early and why theres no water coming from the hot tank to the tanks? Any advice gratefully received! - Jack

*Sorry, that last line should say "Any clues on why its cutting out too early and why theres no water coming from the hot tank to the taps?"

Also should add that the cold tap in kitchen feeds straight from the pump, but running the cold tap doesn't make the pump stay on either.

Reply:

Jack I wonder if the burst pipe water flow rate stirred debris in the system and clogged the pressure sensor switch. Sorry not to have replied sooner, we were deluged with questions

Question: Water pressure tank seems to be empty and water pump won't shut off

I gently rocked the tank and it does not seem there is any water in it. My pump will pump water but the water pressure will only go a little over 30 so the pump will not shut off. For now I shut it off manually and turn it on and allow it to run until we have finished taking a shower or some other task. If the bladder has failed shouldn't the water pressure still build up and then shut the pump off? - Dale

Reply:

Dale:

If the internal bladder in a water pressure tank has failed, the symptoms can vary a bit. Sometimes a collapsed bladder will prevent water from entering the tank, or water can enter up to the pump cut-off pressure but water won't flow back out of the tank. If that's happening the pump will turn on and off quickly as if there were a waterlogged water tank.

When the pump won't shut off the well could be running dry or the pump control could be improperly set.

Don't entirely trust the pressure gauge on the water Tank to read the actual system pressure. Sometimes the opening into the gauge that permits water pressure to drive the gauge can become clogged itself, giving false readings.

Question: Buried water pressure tank, now the tank seems waterloged

Hi. Very informative site. I have a well system that was put in 6 years ago. The bladder or diaphragm tank was buried according to my installer because my double wide had no basement. He also told me the tank would be good for about 20 years.

Recently, I've experienced the symptoms of a waterlogged tank, and after discussing it with the installers front office find they warranty for 5 years (a long way from 20, but I'm certainly not calling them for any further work). 2questions: I'd like to install a new tank in an insulated box under the double wide--is this ok? I'm also wondering if I can just use the existing line coming out of the ground and temporarily not worry about digging up the old tank and rerouting the line. Thanks for any help. - Anonymous

Reply:

Anon: in my OPINION, no one in their right mind would bury a conventional water pressure tank. The tank is not intended for being buried nor for soil contact, nor are its safety controls such as the pressure relief valve that should have been installed at the tank, nor are the pressure sensing controls that should be installed at or close to the tank. Such an installation cannot be serviced.

When you dig up and replace your buried water tank, if it cannot be installed inside the building in a dry heated space, it can be installed in a dry, covered, but accessible "well pit" as was common practice at well heads before the pitless adapter was invented.

Question: water pressure starts strong but quickly falls off to nothing - what might be wrong?

When we first turn on outside faucet near well house we have alot of water pressure, then it goes down to a trinkle in a few minutes. Also when we have this outside faucet on, we don't have any water in the house. Our pressure tank feels empty, could the bladder be collapsed? If it is collapsed, is there a way to get it uncollapsed or do we need to replace it? - Jorg

We were also wondering if the pressure switch could be causing the drop in pressure?

Reply:

Jorg:

Jorg about the water pump pressure control switch, a bad switch will fail to turn the pump on or off at the proper time; if it were improperly adjusted it might appear to work but lead to lower water pressure.

take a look at the article link at Related Topics titled WATER PRESSURE PROBLEM DIAGNOSIS TABLE

Often when water pressure and flow are good at first but then fall off quickly, either the piping is clogged or the water pressure tank is water logged.

Question: Water tank pressure creeps up higher than normal

My pump cut in pressure is 35 psi. Couple yrs ago charged tank to 33 psi. Recently my punp started short cycling. I drained the tank. Air charge read 46 psi. Lowered back to 33 psi. A few days later tank pressure was back to 46 psi. What could cause this? I changed the filter. Water flow seams normal. - Kevin

Reply:

Kevin: these are great water pump and tank mysteries, no?

First let's separate tank precharge pressure from the cut in and cut out pressures. The pre-charge pressure should not be so far above your cut-in pressure, so I wonder if you were really reading the pressure in the tank at the proper time. Take a look at tank pressure at the point that the pump cuts on or cuts in.

Take a look at the article link at Related Topics WATER TANK BLADDER PRESSURE ADJUSTMENT

More Rarely, a leaky well line can let air in that gets sent on into the pressure tank. Take a look at SNIFTER VALVES for an example of how a water tank air volume control system can pump excess air into the water pressure tank. Or see our more complete discussion at AIR VOLUME CONTROLS, WATER TANK.

If you are seeing air discharge at your plumbing fixtures, see AIR DISCHARGE at FAUCETS, FIXTURES

Question: Why is there red cap over our water tank air valve?

Why is there red cap flush mounted inside of the air valve? It blocks access to the stem valve. - Lawrence

Reply: The red cap prevents accidental release of or change in the water tank's air charge

Lawrence,

The red plastic cap on the air valve on your pressure tank is intended to prevent an amateur from messing with the tank's pre-charge of air pressure.

On many internal bladder type water pressure tanks, the water tank is provided from the factory with the manufacturer's recommended air pressure pre-charged in the tank. The manufacturer doesn't want someone accidentally letting the air out or otherwise messing with the air pressure charge if they don't know how it should be set.

Provided you follow the manufacturer's instructions about adjusting the pressure in the water tank, you can remove the red guard to access the air valve itself.

Question: how to troubleshoot air in water lines - collapsed water tank bladder as a cause?

Hi, What a helpful site. We have been experiencing intermittent air in our water lines, and yesterday had the well company come out. They repaired a couple things: pinhole found in pipe just above the submersible pump (which is 24 years old but appears to be running well). Also a weird bleeder valve arrangement that is no longer needed, and which he replaced with a brass check valve.

Put everything back down in the well and ran the water, seemed okay. However since then we notice very low water pressure, and when the water is on the pump is short-cycling. From reading your articles, I checked the water tank (well-x-trol) and am able to rock it with gentle pressure, leading me to believe there is no water in it. The pressure gauge is at 60%. My question is, is a collapsed bladder a common result of draining all the water from the system? And I guess the real question, is this repairable or do we need a whole new water tank? Thank you. - Sara

Reply:

Sara,

I haven't run across collapsed water pressure tank bladders due just to emptying the system of water, though I could imagine that if a tank were left empty for some time, the bladder might stick to itself. Bladders in at least some water pressure tanks are replaceable - some readers have reported success in doing so. Replacement involves shutting down and draining the system, and most likely disconnecting the tank to upend it to gain access to a removable panel through which an OEM replacement tank bladder is installed.

Amtrol is the producer of Well X Trol water tanks. Looking at their list price catalog I don't see replaceable bladders for their water pressure tanks.

See AIR DISCHARGE at FAUCETS, FIXTURES for help in diagnosing and fixing the air discharge in your water piping and fixtures.

Question: water tank removal: how do I abandon a well and water pressure tank when switching to municipal water supply

I have had a water well plumbed and changed to a public water. the blue tank i was told was not in use,,though there was a leak from it. eventually it got rusted and at the end and let away the water from my public connection out. i had to turn mains off..what is going on if this belly tank only belongs to the water well, which is not in use. - Reosemary

Reply:

Rosemary, if you have switched from well water to municipal supply, ALL of your old water input/supply equipment should have been taken out of your water supply system. That's because the municipality worries that contamination in a private residence's equipment could back-contaminate the public water mains.

So typically the plumber connecting up the municipal water supply would connect it at a point in your house cold water supply piping past the original well water supply pressure tank outlet, and the plumber would also cut off your equipment piping from your house plumbing.

If s/he failed to do that, that would explain why a leak in your old water tank meant you had to shut off your municipal supply to fix it.

There are exceptions to this rule if a water pump and pressure tank are in use in a home to BOOST municipal supply. But even if your old well pump and pressure tank were being used to boost municipal supply pressure, your well line can no longer be connected up to that system.

Finally, some homeowners keep the old well, well pump, and pressure tank, but keeping completely separate from the house water supply piping, they connect it just to an outdoor faucet for watering lawns and plants.

Question: We have intermittent water pressure and the water smells - is it a bladder problem?

We are currently experience intermittent water pressure and water has slight smell. In conversing with other people thought our holding tank might have had issues w/the bladder. We haven't lost water completely and as of last night was on full pressure. Any ideas on the problem? - Karin Wilson

Reply: Diagnose the cause of intermittent water pressure first, and smell second

Karin

I'm not sure what to diagnose from your description; there could be a less-than-obvious connection between a water smell and water pressure in that in some wells, when the water level in the well drops (as it may seasonally especially in the dry season) there may also be an increase in odor in the well water as different rock fissures and different components of the aquifer feed into a typical drilled well at different depths.

Certainly we've seen that sulphur odors in well water can vary seasonally.

You could also have a problem with bacteria in the water supply or growing in the water pressure tank.

To be more diagnostic we need to understand if your "intermittent water pressure" means that at different times of the day water pressure is poor versus poor or inadequate water pressure during different portions of the pump cycle (typically just a few minutes). If it's the latter, then we might try addressing the complaint with an adjustment to the pressure switch to slightly narrow the gap between cut-in and cut-out pressures.

But if the water pressure failures are intermittent during the day, it sounds like there may be a well flow problem.

Question: why is my well and pressure tank water draw-down cycle only giving me 2 gallons of water before the pump has to turn on - short draw-down cycle troubleshooting

I have a private well with a new 7-8 GPM pump set at 300ft installed last year. I have been trying to test our 15 year old pressure tank. It is a WellxTrol WX-202 20 gallon that states it should have a draw down of 6.8 gallons. I have no pressure or flow problems and my pressure switch is set to 30/50. I ran a draw down test with my garden hose and nozzel hooked up to an outside faucet and only got 2 gallons before pump turn on (at 30psi) into a volume marked pail, but the draw down time was about 1 minute 30 seconds. Time from cut-on to cut-off (50psi) is about 15-20 seconds. There is no short cycling, at least from cut-off to cut-on and we get consistent pressure and flow.

Why am I getting only 2 gallons on draw down? Is there a problem? - Peter

OK, new information after an additional test this morning. I flushed a low volume toilet and the water tank pressure immediately went from cut-off (50psi) to just above the cut-in pressure of 30psi, then as the volume of toilet flow slowed the pressure slowly went down to cut-in pressure. I'll test the tank air pressure later but it looks like I need a new pressure tank. - Peter

Reply: check for a waterlogged water pressure tank, check the air volume controls, add air to the pressure tank

Peter, your description sounds as if the water tank is waterlogged - has lost its air charge. See SHORT CYCLING DIAGNOSIS TABLE for help in confirming and diagnosing both short water draw down cycle (too little water before the pump turns on) and frequent pump on-and-off cycling.

And see WATER TANK AIR, HOW TO ADD for help in getting air back into the pressure tank.

Reader follow-up: trying to get air into the water pressure tank

I drained the pressure tank from the well head so that the pressure gauge showed zero. Then tested pre-charge and found it to be less than 10psi. I added enough air to get 28psi (cut-in 30psi) then tested the performance. From zero to cut-off took much more time than before, at least double (guess-ta-met), and when I flushed the same toilet the pressure went to 42psi, not the 32psi I got before. So defiantly the problem was too little air pressure.

I don't know where the air went though? One thing I noticed was that as I was filling the tank with air the water pressure gauge also went up and I found I had to open the well head tap to get back to zero. This seemed to clear out and I can only assume that the bladder did not fully collapse until air pressure was added.

I re-checked the tank pressure after I had opened the well head tap and the pressure held at 28psi, so I think my bladder may be OK and not (at least completely) ruptured. I'll check the pre-charge in a couple of weeks but I think for a 15 year old tank I'll just replace it anyway. The original plumber only used the smallest marginal tank so I'll go bigger for more draw down. - Peter

Reply:

Peter if you drain water out of a pressure tank down to low or "zero" pressure, that does not alone assure that you've actually gotten air to enter the tank. It could be still nearly full of water but at little or no pressure. You should be able to see at least 30 seconds of draw-down at a typical faucet before the well pump has to turn on. Or taken another way, a water pressure tank is rated for an "equivalent" draw down volume of water, typically 10 gallons or higher, if the tank is properly installed and air-charged.

...

Ask a Question or Search InspectApedia

Questions & answers or comments about diagnosing and repairing problems with water tanks that use an internal bladder

Technical Reviewers & References

Related Topics, found near the top of this page suggest articles closely related to this one.

• [1] Rasmussen Well Drilling, Inc., 1793 Hwy 61, Two Harbors MN. Jeremy Rasmussen provides third generation well drilling and plumbing services on the North Shore of Lake Superior. Photos by DJF. Tel 218-834-3387. Email: rasmussenwell@frontier.com
  Quoting: We serve the north Shore – Lake, Cook, St. Louis, Carlton and Pine counties, including Duluth, Grand Marais, Clouqet, Carlton, Finland, Isabella, Silver Bay, Grand Portage, Saginaw, and everywhere in Northeastern Minnesota.
• [2] Well-Rite water tanks. Well-Rite water tanks are produced by Flexcon Industries, 300 Pond Street Randolph, MA 02368 Tel: 781.986.2424, based on manufacturer data provided on the shipping carton for a 44 Gallon / 170 Liter internal bladder water pressure tank during installation in Northern Minnesota, September 2011.
• Thanks to Jeremy Houser who suggested that we needed to clarify the difference between bladder type and non-bladder type water tanks when discussing air charging and diagnosis of water tank repairs.
• Thanks to reader Steven Prior for discussing water pressure tank location, water filter location, and for the water tank air valve photo - July 2010.
• Amtrol Extrol™ pressure control tanks used on hydronic heating and other systems such as models 35LBC, 50 LBC, 85 LBC, and 100LBC to 600 LBC also use a bottom bladder containing air - see amtrol.com/pdf/LBCSeriesEXTROL9017-095.pdf for details.
• Mark Cramer Inspection Services Mark Cramer, Tampa Florida, Mr. Cramer is a past president of ASHI, the American Society of Home Inspectors and is a Florida home inspector and home inspection educator. Mr. Cramer serves on the ASHI Home Inspection Standards. Contact Mark Cramer at: 727-595-4211 mark@BestTampaInspector.com
• John Cranor is an ASHI member and a home inspector (The House Whisperer) is located in Glen Allen, VA 23060. He is also a contributor to InspectApedia.com in several technical areas such as plumbing and appliances (dryer vents). Contact Mr. Cranor at 804-747-7747 or by Email: johncranor@verizon.net
• Carson, Dunlop & Associates Ltd., 120 Carlton Street Suite 407, Toronto ON M5A 4K2. (416) 964-9415 1-800-268-7070 info@carsondunlop.com. The firm provides professional home inspection services & home inspection education & publications. Alan Carson is a past president of ASHI, the American Society of Home Inspectors. Thanks to Alan Carson and Bob Dunlop, for permission for InspectAPedia to use text excerpts from The Home Reference Book & illustrations from The Illustrated Home. Carson Dunlop Associates' provides:
  • Commercial Building Inspection Courses - protocol ASTM Standard E 2018-08 for Property Condition Assessments
  • Home Inspection Education Courses including home study & live classes at eleven colleges & universities.
  • Home Inspection Education Home Study Courses - ASHI@Home Training 10-course program.
    Special Offer: Carson Dunlop Associates offers InspectAPedia readers in the U.S.A. a 5% discount on these courses: Enter INSPECTAHITP in the order payment page "Promo/Redemption" space. InspectAPedia.com editor Daniel Friedman is a contributing author.
  • The Home Reference Book, a reference & inspection report product for building owners & inspectors.
    Special Offer: For a 10% discount on any number of copies of the Home Reference Book purchased as a single order. Enter INSPECTAHRB in the order payment page "Promo/Redemption" space. InspectAPedia.com editor Daniel Friedman is a contributing author.
  • The Home Reference eBook, an electronic version for PCs, the iPad, iPhone, & Android smart phones.
    Special Offer: For a 5% discount on any number of copies of the Home Reference eBook purchased as a single order. Enter inspectaehrb in the order payment page "Promo/Redemption" space.
  • The Illustrated Home illustrates construction details and building components, a reference for owners & inspectors.
    Special Offer: For a 5% discount on any number of copies of the Illustrated Home purchased as a single order Enter INSPECTAILL in the order payment page "Promo/Redemption" space.
  • The Horizon Software System manages business operations,scheduling, & inspection report writing using Carson Dunlop's knowledge base & color images. The Horizon system runs on always-available cloud-based software for office computers, laptops, tablets, iPad, Android, & other smartphones.
• Thanks to Jeff Garmel for discussing clarifications on water pressure tank testing and diagnosis, 8/24/2009.
• Thanks to Bill Kortebein for discussing dealing with a water-logged collapsed bladder water pressure tank 07/24/2010
• Rasmussen Well Drilling, Inc., 1793 Hwy 61, Two Harbors MN. Jeremy Rasmussen provides third generation well drilling and plumbing services on the North Shore of Lake Superior. Photos by DJF. Tel 218-834-3387. Email: rasmussenwell@frontier.com
  Quoting: We serve the north Shore – Lake, Cook, St. Louis, Carlton and Pine counties, including Duluth, Grand Marais, Clouqet, Carlton, Finland, Isabella, Silver Bay, Grand Portage, Saginaw, and everywhere in Northeastern Minnesota.
• Wessels Company bladder replacement store was found at westank.com/bladder-tank-store.php on 5/22/2009. Wes sell refers to "shock and surge tanks" as ASME replaceable bladder type and pre-charged hydropneumatic tanks used for commercial, industrial, and well water systems.
• Well-Rite water tanks. Well-Rite water tanks are produced by Flexcon Industries, 300 Pond Street Randolph, MA 02368 Tel: 781.986.2424, based on manufacturer data provided on the shipping carton for a 44 Gallon / 170 Liter internal bladder water pressure tank during installation in Northern Minnesota, September 2011.

Books & Articles on Building & Environmental Inspection, Testing, Diagnosis, & Repair

• Our recommended books about building & mechanical systems design, inspection, problem diagnosis, and repair, and about indoor environment and IAQ testing, diagnosis, and cleanup are at the InspectAPedia Bookstore. Also see our Book Reviews - InspectAPedia.

The Home Reference Book - the Encyclopedia of Homes, Carson Dunlop & Associates, Toronto, Ontario, 25th Ed., 2012, is a bound volume of more than 450 illustrated pages that assist home inspectors and home owners in the inspection and detection of problems on buildings. The text is intended as a reference guide to help building owners operate and maintain their home effectively. Field inspection worksheets are included at the back of the volume. Special Offer: For a 10% discount on any number of copies of the Home Reference Book purchased as a single order. Enter INSPECTAHRB in the order payment page "Promo/Redemption" space. InspectAPedia.com editor Daniel Friedman is a contributing author. Or choose the The Home Reference eBook for PCs, Macs, Kindle, iPad, iPhone, or Android Smart Phones. Special Offer: For a 5% discount on any number of copies of the Home Reference eBook purchased as a single order. Enter INSPECTAEHRB in the order payment page "Promo/Redemption" space.

Building inspection education & report writing systems from Carson, Dunlop & Associates Ltd

• ...