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GAS PIPING, VALVES, CONTROLS
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HARD WATER - SOFTENERS
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LEAD POISONING HAZARDS GUIDE
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METHANE GAS SOURCES
MIXING / ANTI-SCALD VALVES
MUNICIPAL WATER PRESSURE IMPROVEMENTS
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ODORS, SULPHUR SMELL SOURCES
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PIPING IN BUILDINGS, Clogs Leaks Types
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PUMPS USED in BUILDINGS
PUMPS, WATER REPAIR
RELIEF VALVE LEAKS
RELIEF VALVES - TP Valves on Boilers
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RELIEF VALVES - Water Heaters
RELIEF VALVES - Water Tanks
REPAIR BURST LEAKY PIPES
METHANE GAS HAZARDS
SEPTIC SYSTEM INSPECT DIAGNOSE REPAIR
SHUTOFF VALVE LOCATION, USE
SULPHUR & SEWER GAS SMELL SOURCES
SWEATING (CONDENSATION) on PIPES, TANKS
TOILETS, INSPECT, INSTALL, REPAIR
WATER, WELLS, WATER TANKS: TESTING GUIDE
WATER PRESSURE LOSS DIAGNOSIS & REPAIR
WATER PUMPS & TANKS
WATER SOFTENERS & CONDITIONERS
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WATER SUPPLY & DRAIN PIPING
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WATER TESTS, CONTAMINANTS, TREATMENT
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Water softener regeneration cycle time period: what is the normal duration or length of a water softener regeneration cycle? What determines the length of the softener regen cycle? Can the regen cycle duration be adjusted? How to diagnose & fix problems with a water softner that runs too long or not long enough.
Diagnose & Fix Water Softener Problems: this article series describes procedures for diagnosing and repairing water softener or water conditioner problems including water conditioner control settings and adjustment or repair, brine tank and brine tank float cleaning and repair, and the proper amount of water softening or conditioning that is needed.
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Reader Question: how long should the water softener brine flush (regeneration cycle) last?
Is it normal for brine flush to be an hour long ? - D.C.
Reply: normal water softener regeneration cycle duration
DC it could be an hour - as long as it stops you're ok. The length of the regen cycle is controlled by the timer/control on your equipment and will vary by water conditioner size and salt dose. It would not be unusual for the total regen cycle to take more than an hour, comprised of these steps:
Question: Why does my Water Softener Keep Running Longer Than it Should?
My water softener continues to run when no water is being drawn from anywhere in the house. Why is this happening? - Joe Hernandez, Brighten MI
Reply: What's the difference between normal water softener backwash regen cycle running and "stuck on" running?
Causes of Long Water Softener Run or Regeneration Cycles
Normal Water softener regen cycle usually occurs when household water is not being drawn by occupants
What you describe might be normal if the water softener runs when no water is being used in the house but later stops itself. The water softener itself does not deliver water to your home. That is done by the water pump or incoming water supply. So when a water softener "runs" it is in its regeneration or "backwash" cycle during which the softener pumps water into a salt tank to make brine, then flushes the brine backwards through the water treatment tank, then flushes the brine out of the treatment tank.
Because during the regeneration cycle the water softener is on "bypass", any household water used by occupants during that interval is not treated or softened during the regeneration cycle. Therefore we usually set the water softener timer to process its regeneration cycle in the middle of the night - when no one is using water. That may be what you are hearing.
See HOW WATER SOFTENERS / CONDITIONERS WORK for details about how water softeners work.
See SOFTENER ADJUSTMENT & CONTROLS for advice on how to set the water softener timer and salt dose.
Stuck water softener runs continuously: what to do
On the other hand, if the softener actually seems to "run" or to be "stuck" in regeneration mode, running continuously, then its operating control needs to be repaired or replaced. Don't leave the softener running forever - doing so wastes water and if your home is connected to a private septic system it will also flood and damage the drainfield.
In an emergency if the water softener is "stuck" running water continuously I'd just unplug it and also perhaps set the control to bypass while (see BYPASS VALVE) waiting for a water treatment company to perform the needed control repair.
Question: Why does the water conditioner take longer for drawing brine from the salt tank than for refilling the salt tank?
Can someone explain why, during a regeneration cycle, the time for drawing brine from tank is five times longer than refilling water into tank. That part of the cycle is drawing all of the water from tank and continues that cycle long after the brine tank is empty.
This system was installed and setup by a water softener company who I'm assuming made all necessary tests. My new job is to maintain this system and insure proper operation. I had a stuck float in the brine tank which was repaired, than I forced a regeneration cycle and noticed the brine tank and cycle setup. - Bob
Reply: The water softener does not re-fill the brine tank with water immediately after drawing out brine
Bob, indeed it sounds as if the water softener control or perhaps the brine tank fill control is not working properly. Or maybe not.
Some water softeners do not pump water into the brine tank until the start of a regen cycle. In that case once brine has been drawn out of the tank you won't see water pumped back into the salt tank until the next regen cycle.
An abnormally long regen cycle past time that brine has been pumped out of the salt tank? Check the float.
But if the cycle is abnormally long compared to the exhaustion of the brine tank liquid, another possibility is the following: the softener is set to use a particular quantity of salt (in the form of brine water) based on water hardness and quantity used.
But if the float in the brine tank prevented sufficient water from entering the tank at the start of the regen cycle, then the softener control could find itself blithely pumping along, having exhausted the undersized salt dose but having no way to know that (the brine float is a mechanical device that has most often no direct communication with the actual electrically powered softener control).
Question: water softener overflows
water overflows - citation, 8/31/11
Water is flowing out of the top of my water softener salt tank. Can you tell me what's wrong and how to fix it ? - anon.
Sure. We discuss this problem in the article above at SOFTENER REGENERATION CYCLE DURATION - your system overflowing may be due to
Question: backwash observed when water softener returned to service
I moved into a new house 3 months ago to find the softener to be "out of service" meaning my inlet outlet valves to softener were closed and bypass open. When I lined softener up I noticed that water was running out of my backwash line this continued for 15-20 min. It was not in a regeneration cycle? Any answers would be great thanks - Josh 10/5/12
Josh, I'm guessing you bumped an extra regen cycle switch on the control; But it's just a guess. If the system was put out of service and on bypass it might be because the system was stuck in regeneration mode and needs cleaning or repair.
Question: how can I shut off the water softener?
water softner i unplugged the unit and it still runs water through it is there is there something i can do to shut off water from going through the system until i can get someone to look at it - Robert Clem 8/1/12
Also see DIAGNOSE SOFTENER BACKUP / FLOODING.
Question: Culligan 50 series softener that is continually draining water
I have a Culligan 50 series softener that is continually draining water. There is a plastic tube out the top that goes direct to the main house drain and recently we noticed there is a steady stream coming from it.
That line might leak either when the system is pumping water into the brine tank to make brine, or when the system is in regeneration cycle and is pumping salty water back through the water conditioner. Take a close look to see exactly what's leaking and replace those parts - it should be an inexpensive "screw-together" repair.
See DIAGNOSE SOFTENER BACKUP / FLOODING for diagnostic & repair procedures for this problem.
Question: would lack of salt make our water softener regen or recycle too often?
If we have not kept salt in our tank, would the softener recycle more often than it should? The reason for my question is I got a call from the city about our culinary water consumption and it is extremely higher than normal which indicates either a leak in our home such as a toilet, or the water softener is recycling too often. How do I know how many times the softener is recycling? - Jamie 6/18/12
Reply: yes and no - it depends on softener type
Question: Water softener stuck in regen backwash cycle
we haven't used our culligan softner since we moved in 1999. when i plug the unit in it constantly discharges water down the main waste. is this normal? - Sal 6/21/12
Sal, it sounds as if your water softener is stuck in regen-cycle.
Try cleaning it (see SOFTENER CLEANING & SANITIZING),
then re-set the controls (see SOFTENER ADJUSTMENT & CONTROLS) then try a manual backwash cycle.
If the system keeps running for hours, then the water the water softener control needs repair or replacement.
Water softener regeneration cycle duration vs. frequency
Above we discussed the duration of water softener regeneration cycles: how long the equipment should run when executing a regeneration cycle.
Frequency of water softner regeneration is not the same question as duration of the regeneration cycle.
See the article above on this page: WATER SOFTENER REGENERATION CYCLE DURATION for a discussion of abnormally-long water softener regeneration cycle time duration.
See WATER SOFTENER REGENERATION CYCLE FREQUENCY for details about how to set the water softener salt dose, regeneration frequency and on some models, softener regeneration time.
Continue reading at WATER SOFTENER REGENERATION CYCLE FREQUENCY or select a topic from the More Reading links shown below.
Suggested citation for this web page
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Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs)
Question: water softener not working - diagnose the trouble?
(Feb 19, 2014) Bruce said:
My softener stopped softening the water 2 months ago. The unit is about 18 years old. I replaced the resin, cleaned the valve head, poured 3 gallons not water into the brine tank with iron out and manually regenerated many times. The water gets soft for a few days but then isn't. It's using salt normally, the valve timer is working but still won't keep the water soft. The only thing I haven't done is disassemble and clean the brine tank. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Check the float assembly to assure it's not stuck and check the salt dose setting against the measured hardness of the incoming water supply;
Thanks Dan, the float assembly looked fine. I soaked the basket in Ironout just in case and blew it out, seems clear. The salt setting was at 3 lbs which seems rather low so I bumped it up to 13 lbs. The last water test was pH 5.8 / Iron 3.0ppm / Hardness 20 grains per gallon. What setting do you recommend for that iron level? Again, your help is really appreciated.
The separate article SOFTENER ADJUSTMENT & CONTROLS discusses salt dose and regen cycle settings - which you can look at but you'll want to set your particular softner salt dose and regen cycle frequency per the instructions for your particular brand and model to get it just right.
I don't know about softener setting for iron level - which is a secondary feature to softener settings for hardness; I'd be glad to do some research but let's start with the instructions for your unit. What is the brand and model? (And you have the instructions for it?}
(Feb 20, 2014) Bruce said:
How much water should be in the brine tank after a full regeneration? I'm starting to wonder if the air check ball is stuck or for some reason, the correct amount of brine water is not being created.
Indeed there are usually a few inches in the bottom of the brine tank, but in normal conditions you won't see it: the brine solution will be covered by salt.
Two checks to make: check for a stuck brine tank float; check for salt bridging or crusting
- check that the float assembly travels freely and is not stuck - most brine tanks control water entry and exit quantity by a float operated switch.
- poke at the salt in the tank; salt can form a crust that makes it look as if there's plenty of salt in the tank while actually there may be nothing but hollow space below the crust.
There is about 3-4" of water but the float sits about 5-6" above the water line while in service mode. Does the water go up that high during regeneration? Doesn't seem like it does at all. Further to that, I opened the air check where the brine tank hose attached expecting to find a ball but there wasn't one. I understand that the all floats when water is in there and close up the line when the brine water runs out. But there was no ball. Also, my air check looks different than the ones I see pictured, it's flatter than taller. I can send a pic if that's possible. Thanks again, you are very helpful, I appreciate it,
Bruce, I'm not sure, not even knowing what softener you have, but generally the float controls the quantity of water that enters the brine tank - as you probably see, water enters, causes the float to rise until it shuts off the incoming water; time is given to dissolve salt; then salty water is pumped back out of the brine tank and through the softener to do the regen.
If you want to experiment, with no salt in the tank, so you can see what's going on, use the softener controls to request an extra or manual regen cycle. Watch the brine tank. You should see water enter, the float rise, the float stops rising and presses against a mechanical switch that stops water entry. (The float level is adjustable on many softeners and should be set per the manual).
As the cycle continues you should see the salty water pumped back out of the unit and the water level drop.
Even before that observation it should be possible to GENTLY lift the float rod and let it drop back into position. The float should move freely up and down. Sometimes floats get stuck as salt cakes or falls into the tube protecting the float assembly.
(Feb 21, 2014) Bruce said:
Thanks, I understand exactly what you wrote. The valve is an Autotrol 255/440 from 1996. Right now, I've the water soft but not sure how long it will last. It's soft because 2 days ago I add 3 gal hot water to the brine tank and did a manual regen. I'm wondering if enough water is getting into the brine tank. Is the float valve itself subject to failure commonly? The float moved the valve freely up and down but that doesn't mean the valve is opening fully, right? Maybe I should watch a full cycle to see if the water rises during the brine creation cycle. That air check w/o a ball also is bothering me since everything I read on the 255 says there should be a plastic ball in there. Also, I read that air leaks could impact brine flow.
Reader Comments: Diagnostic tips for a water softner that won't draw brine
Although I'm not the most expert on water softeners I've messed with them a bit and inspected quite a few. It is common for the brine tank float to get stuck or fail to operate properly. Some folks go on for years with the system not working, never realizing a thing until their water pipes clog with minerals that the softener was not removing because it was not doing a thing.
I haven't come across the air leak problem but that makes some sense, though I'd like to hear more specifics about where the air leaks occur; I suspect that an air leak in the brine line between brine tank and softener might let air rather than brine pass back to the softener, but I'd think during the brine tank fill cycle you'd see water leaks at the same place. The manual for your water softener says an air leak in the brine line can cause a brine tank overflow.
I'd suggest removing all the salt (you've done that) then starting a manual regen cycle and then stand there and with the lid off the brine tank watch what it does. You should see water enter, the float rise, the float stop the water entry, then the water flow should reverse and flow back through the softener.
(If you'd photograph the whole sequence and email me those that'd be a useful addition to our diagnostic routines online.)
Take a look at the diagnostics page in the manual - I'll quote some key passages:
Continuing with Autotrol w55/440 Water softener diagnostics, here are things to watch for during the regen cycle:
Control will not draw brine: possible causes-
Also interesting is a system that actually takes or uses less salt than the setting on the salt dose dial (I suspect this is a good candidate for your complaint as you say the softener gives soft water after a regen cycle but just for 2 days):
Finally, some general Dx for "Run out of Soft Water Between Regen Cycles"
- improper regen (which we've been discussing)
Given the age of your water softener I'd be alert for the debris-related diagnostics in the company's list.
If you don't have the manual on hand contact me by email and I can send you a copy.
That list is very helpful. I decided to shock the well again today (2nd time in a month) because I still believe it's at the heart of my problems. I'm clogging up a whole house filter once every 7-10 days now. Used to be every 2 months. It's never been a good well and I'm thinking it got worse and the softener simply can't deal with the high iron content, I'm flushing the chlorine out as I type, the hose has been running for well over 1 hour and the water is still very brown.
Hopefully it starts running clear soon. If I can't improve that part and go at least a couple months before a filter change, I think a new well or at least well company inspection is next.
Reply: shocking the well won't help a clogged water softener
If the water filter clogs in just a few days I'm doubtful that shocking the well is going to do much for it - you'll need to
- find and (ick) fix a leaky cracked damaged well casing or well piping
Reader Jim added:
Look for an air leak at the check valve or brine tank line; possibly an air leak at the backwash control,
Yeah Dan, I think you're on the right track there unfortunately but I'll give it a couple days.
Thanks , I'll look for the leak, still not sure why there is no ball in the air check. Thought that was required for it to work.
Question: what if there is no salt tank at my water softener
(Jan 30, 2013) trish said:
We have a tank in our basement that we were told was a salt system. I am confused because it has no brine tank. It is tall and thin with a control box on top. We have lived here 6 months. Finite was the first time I hand heard it "regenerate". It was running for about 20 minutes. My husband turned it off and bypassed it. We don't have a clue about it. Do they all have brine tanks or do some have just a pressure tank??
Your system may not have a separate water brine tank if the unit is an exchange type system:
Some water conditioners use an "exchange tank" design: the resin is pre-charged with salt or other chemicals and is inside a tank taht is exchanged periodically, typically monthly by a water treatment service company.
Feb 23, 2014) Anonymous said:
resin tank full of water and motor runs all time
Anon: I think you mean the salt or brine tank is full of water - the resin is inside the water softener - you can't normally see it.
It sounds as if your water softner control is stuck; try unplugging the unit; if it can't be reset manually the control may need repair or replacement.
Question: foamy water from Rainsoft water conditioner
(Mar 1, 2014) Lloyd Franklin said:
I have a rainsoft whole house water system that is showing signs of foamy water. Please let me know what problem can cause the system to make the water foamy?
I'm not sure Lloyd; maybe mis-adjustment, over-softening; have you tried cleaning the brine tank and checking the water softener settings against the actual measured hardness of incoming water?
Question: leaky water softener control O rings - fixed, now water too briny
(Mar 10, 2014) Dan said:
I just had the o rings on my water softener replaced due to leaking, and the system cycles properly. However, after the last 2 cycles, the first water of the morning is distinctly briny, which goes away after using water, say doing a few loads of laundry. This has never happened in 15 years of service. Any suggestions? Thanks.
Check the salt dose - it may be set too high.
Question: water foamy briny
(Mar 22, 2014) John said:
Recently I've been experiencing very foamy and salty tasting water from the cold water faucets in the mornings. I have to run the faucets for several minutes to clear. I have RainSoft about 30 years old. Never maintained except to replace salt.
John, perhaps you need to empty and clean the brine tank, then check that the tank float is moving freely, then run the softener through an extra regen cycle.
Question: water softener beeping and says "sending help"
(Mar 27, 2014) David Ashby said:
my water softener won't stop beeping. And the screen reads " SENDING HELP "
Well that's one I've not heard before. "Sending help"? You didn't mention the brand and model - which would let us (or you) check the owners' manual.
For example Culligan Gold water softeners include a beeper that can be turned on and off and indicates button activity as well as an "alarm" mode.
Your unit needs repair or service.
On Rain Soft water softeners you may be able to re-set the alarm. If you have that brand or most others you can obtain a manual from the company's website, and we also have some on file.
Question: water hammering during water softener regen
(Apr 13, 2014) TERRY M said:
My water softener makes noise like water hammering when it regenerates very loud thru out the house
Terry, take a look at this water hammer diagnosis & cure article and keep us posted
(May 11, 2014) Stuart Machin said:
My Crown twin tank water softener is running much longer on its regeneration cycle, 2-3 hours instead of the usual 10-15 minutes.
Stuart start by checking the control settings. Then try a manual regen cycle and watch what happens. Is the clock reading ticking or moving? I suspect a debris clogged control, check valve, or possibly a salt-stuck brine float.
7/19/2014 (4 hours ago) james lavalley email is firstname.lastname@example.org said:
I have a performa water sofner.It keeps pluging up my washing machine screen with q
This sounds as if the water softener is sending debris from the brine tank OR actual resin from the softener out with the house water supply. You could try emptying and sanitizing the brine tank (articles here describe how to do that). But I suspect it's a resin problem - which means it's time to call your local water conditioner company to take a look at the equipment. I'll do some further checking and comment further as well.
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